Diamond Scot
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Posts posted by Diamond Scot
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Anybody know how Craig Gordon is getting on?
For him to make the squad he will have to displace Clark in the Hearts team and probably with at least 10 games of the season to go to allow Clarke to make sure he is back to somewhere near his pre injury self.
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Said it on here at the time that rookie interim managers who do well very rarely go onto become a success or last beyond a year.
Aberdeen could do worse than Warnock. I think an old head who has been there and done it in an around the English championship for years could work.
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8 hours ago, phart said:
Wait , did you belive he wasn't almost starting shit? He escalated Afhganistan like mad, got nowhere after a massive increase in military activity and then the pull-out started. Although Biden get's the blame for that mostly as it started during his first term properly. I'm sure they both saw no way forward with military means so just cut and run.
Then he pulled out of all these treaties, assassinated folk in Iran almost causing a huge ruckus, fucked up Yemen and encouraged, by passivity, Russian expansion.
His Foreign Policy was largely favourable to the Saudi's with supplying shit for Yemen and against Iran. Iran a country that actually hasn't invaded anyone , although it is in the grips of a theocratic nightmare government.
Invading in the historical context is rare nowadays. Russia being the exception.
Much more common is influencing or doing proxy wars. Iran might not have put boots on foreign soil but they will have commited numerous acts of aggression that if we wanted could amount to war.
Btw most countries do it, not just Iran. The USA and UK amongst the worst.
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1 hour ago, syecosse said:
Looking at Twitter at least the Brighton fans are raving about Gilmour if that helps, apparently he has been world class lately.
Gilmour rarely does anything highlights worthy but he sets the tempo of the team, makes it tick and often plays the between the lines pass that starts the attack.
He needs a team that play to his strengths and teammates who trust him. Main reason why Norwich was a disaster.
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Not just Scotland kits but prices these days are beyond silly. Nearly 2 year old kids top is £50
Would be good if a big club side or international team would make a stand and cap new strips at 35 quid or something.
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48 minutes ago, The Black Bra said:
Surely we must experiment with a back four in the pre-Euro friendlies. If Tierney is missing, the 3 CB’s & 2 wing backs formation just doesn’t work. We lose the attacking interplay between Robertson & Tierney. Our other CBs aren’t playing or impressing at the moment and don’t have Tierney’s ability to carry the ball out if defence. We also have an abundance of good midfielders, so to sacrifice one of them to play 3 CBs without Tierney makes me think of the Czech game in the last Euros.
We have shown time and time again that we cant play 4 at the back. Our defensive is all over the place and our midfield offer no cover.
Id rather we try and find a replacement for Tierney such as Kinglsey or maybe even Hickey. Its important that we get somebody who can offer similar attributes to Tierney without changing our overall setup.
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Rangers have always spent money to have a large squad full of experienced players. That makes it almost impossible for a young player to get a sniff.
If you look at almost any young player at Rangers, they have only been given a chance when the squad is hit by injuries / suspension.
King only got in when all the CBs were out, and even then Sands played CB for a few games before him.
Patterson only got in when Taviner was out and again Balagoun was tried at RB before him.
Lowry got in when Hagi and others were injured.
Devine when Barasic and Yilmaz were injured.
Every single one of them was rocketed from the 1st team as soon as the more experienced player returned, regardless of how well they performed.
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Im more excited by the likes of Conway and to a lesser extent Hardie than McBurnie and Brown but a big part of that is that as supporters we are always hoping the solution is just around the corner. That perhaps Conway will score for fun once he gets the call, something we know McBurnie and Brown wont do.
We need to temper that with not just calling people up for the sake of it. One of Clarkes strengths has been the club feel, making call ups be earned etc. He doesnt tend to call players up who are just on a hot streak as that might only cover 1 set of fixtures in International terms.
My position with McBurnie is that he was commited 1st time around when alot of other players werent. His performances werent good but also they werent stinking. He hit the woodwork 2 or 3 times and to that extent was abit unlucky he hasnt broken his duck. He also took and scored a vital penalty. He rightfully hasnt been called up in a while however is still one of the top 6 or 7 strikers we have and should his form improve and or we get either injuries or other players form drops off then he should still be considered for a call up.
As supporters we are always wanting young players called up. We cant then dismiss a player for their entire career because they didnt seize the chance when they were called up when they were younger.
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1 hour ago, vanderark14 said:
Have the SPFL and SFA ever thought of starting to promote the game as a whole?
Do other leagues have tv deals where only two teams are regularly televised and the pundits show a huge lack of knowledge on other teams
Sky, TNT and viaplays attitude towards scottish fitba is the complete opposite of their attitude towards other leagues, especially the EPL. The EPL is promoted as a brand and not just two teams. Their adverts make Bournemouth v Luton sound great yet its only about celtic and rangers when it comes to Scotland.
I totally agree, its a nonsence that shouldnt have been allowed to happen however rather than just blame the SFA / SPFL or OF, I prefer to look at what clubs could or should be doing to try and improve it.
If teams still get money for their games being selected for TV in cup games then non OF clubs should be putting pressure on the authorities to insert a clause into the TV deals. Otherwise the OF are almost guarenteed to make extra money each round based purely on their fanbase and not the quality of the tie.
I watched "Brawn" recently. The F1 documentary. Theres abit about all the teams coming together to wrestle control away from F1 and the FIA. In my opinion if the 10 non OF teams and maybe some of the top Championship teams like Dundee Utd etc formed a group and had a collective bargaining position then so much could be done to advance the game.
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2 hours ago, slasher said:
I don’t know why Viaplay bother. That game today was of no interest to anyone other than a Celtic fan.
On a side note was surprised to see Thistles result yesterday after watching them struggle at Cappielow last week and now a decent draw for them as well!
Unfortunetly the viewing figures will be significantly higher with only Celtic fans watching. (Or Rangers)
Ultimately broadcasters run a business and in Scotland thats the model that works.
When TV decides not to even bother showing the Edinburgh derby etc you know the writing is on the wall.
Wont ever happen but its the authorites that should be influencing this. Make it part of the selling of the rights that only a certain number of games can involve the OF. Its the authorities that are meant to have the good of the overall game, not the broadcasters.
Im not sure how it works with TV money anymore. Are clubs paid pro rata depending on which round they get to or are they still paid directly if their game is choosen to be on TV? If its the latter then its another thing non OF clubs so be banding together to pressure the authorities on.
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1 hour ago, vanderark14 said:
Hearts at home is a tasty tie for Airdrie
Likely be a step too far but who knows. Should be a good crowd and possibly TV money.
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A topic thats been talked about lots on here but started this thread to not derail others.
Something needs to change in the mindset of Scottish football. Ive no idea what realistically can be done though.
The "demands" on managers nowadays contributes to them not taking chances with younger players. Its got to the point of madness though.
Other clubs are guilty aswell but taking the OF as an example of the issue.
Rangers playing a part time side who arent pulling up any trees in the 4th division away from home. Full strength team put out. Only 2 youngsters on the bench. Neither get on despite Rangers being 3 nil up.
Celtic playing a highland league side at home. Full strength side put out. (Possible centre back being the exception, Polish 22 year old). 2 youngsters put on but only when 4 nil up.
If a manager cant trust a young player or 2 to start these games then when are they likely to be trusted to play?
The size of the squads is defo an issue. If teams have 27 - 30 fully experienced players on decent wages then these players will expect to play in cup games. Even when being rotated. This leaves no room for younger players.
Down in England clubs reguarly trust younger players in the league cup and early rounds of FA cup. Why is it so different up here?
Problem isnt unique to OF but other clubs do tend to play youth although its probably out of neccesity rather than choice.
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Called Airdrie beating St Johnstone when draw was made.
Financially an away tie at one of the OF would be great in the next round but theres still a good few teams in the hat id fancy us giving a good game at home.
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1 hour ago, JECK said:
It was a wild statement -5 times the amount we do. Absolute mince actually. Robbie and Roy Keane, absolutely in the past 30 years. I’m not having Damien Duff at all as elite - have a look at his stats. In no way shape or form at this moment in time is Evan Ferguson an elite player.
Damien Duff was signed for 17 million by Chelsea where he played 81 times and won 2 leagues. He played over 450 in one of the top leagues in Europe. We would have killed for a player of the calibre of Duff.
Dennis Irwin is one of Man Utds all time full backs. Shay Given was a top class GK. John Oshea won 5 league titles and a european cup at Man Utd. Even Richard Dunne ans Seamus Coleman had really good careers in the EPL.
We are only now starting to produce players who establish themselves at that level.
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1 hour ago, scotlad said:
How are you defining elite players? RoI have had better sides than us for most of this century (not exactly difficult!) but off the top of my head in the past 30 years the only players they have produced that I would describe as 'elite' are Damien Duff, Shay Given, Robbie Keane, Roy Keane and possibly Evan Ferguson.
They have produced good players, i.e. guys who could hold down places in EPL teams, but not that many I would call elite, which, for me, is someone who plays regularly for a top European team challenging for league titles and European honours.
Id define elite the same as you. Players who have reguarly held down starting positions at the top clubs in the best leagues. Probably the big 6 in England.
We have basically had Fletcher and Robertson. McTominay possibly falls into this catergory aswell. All our other players who have moved to top sides have failed to establish themselves.
Even Fletcher and McTomminay were / are on the fringes on the main starting 11. Guys like Duff and and 2 Keanes were key players in successful sides.
We are certainly getting better at producing players of a higher standard. Having a core group of players in the best leagues makes a huge difference. The successful ROI sides if the early 2000s had the elite players as above and then were littered with solid EPL players.
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5 minutes ago, gonzohiggy said:
Pitches can be an issue but I think that’s too easy an out for clubs. If clubs chose to invest in a forward thinking manager, they would need to invest in a pitch aligned with that. Motherwell, hibs, rangers are playing on bowling greens even in January.
Im not saying its the only reason but it is a factor.
Even with a good pitch, its alot harder to play patient passing build up football when the wind is howling, the rain is falling and its close to freezing.
I dont like it but I can see why managers in Scotland opt for physical over technical.
Summer football negates some of the positives of a physical style and makes a technical style more beneficial.
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54 minutes ago, gonzohiggy said:
We should definitely do better. I firmly believe that the players are there and I also think the performance schools are fantastic for player development.
Where I think we fall down in player development is:
1) the players at youth level are taught to play out from the back, possession based style with ball on ground generally. The best ones then get in and around first team level but the game they meet at that level is totally different and they are ill prepared. I’ve seen every club in the premiership this season in person and other than Celtic, the only team who passed the ball on the ground were Dundee. Every other team is filled with 6ft plus guys built like brick s**t house but who are limited football players. These players are often not Scottish. This tendency towards brawn before brain in my opinion prevents enough technical young players getting a chance but also even when they do they aren’t getting experience of playing football the right way at the top level. Going a step beyond, this is why our clubs have traditionally struggled in Europe - they can’t keep the ball and the kick and rush style doesn’t work against the slower European build up.
2) the clubs don’t place enough emphasis on playing their young players. Many would rather bring in someone from England on loan than give one of their own a shot. I’ve seen it with Kilmarnock this season - brought Andy Dallas on loan from Barnsley when 18 y/o Bobby Wales was already there. The league or SFA even needs to mandate the use of homegrown players in match day squads more than currently. Forget the B team nonsense.
no doubt lots more issues than these but both frustrate the life out of me.
Totally agree however one thing thats often overlooked for the cause if this is when we play.
In Scotland there is a very small window when both the pitches and weather are good. Most of the season is spent playing in the wind / rain or when the pitches have suffered from the cold or getting churned up. None of that is ideal for passing the ball around.
I believe one of the many benefits of summer football would be a better style of football being adopted by managers. Managers are paid to win and currently the best chances of that are by getting the ball up the pitch asap.
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1 hour ago, mccaughey85 said:
Most Countries our size don't produce lots of elite players anyways and never will. I am not expecting us to produce lots of elite players. What I want is a few more Frasers, Armstrongs and hickeys. We produce these level of guys in all positions who can cut it at epl level then we should stand a chance at going to more tournaments.
The way we produce these guys is by getting our best talent playing proper competitive football at a young age. Currently our best players have come from the route I am suggesting. The evidence overwhelmingly supports that route.
Most European countries our size do produce elite players.
Countries nearest to our population in order. Croatia, Ireland, Norway, Finland, Slovakia, Denmark, Bulgaria, Serbia, Switzerland.
Only Finland havent really had any elite players playing in the last 20 years. Possibly Bulgaria. Elite being somebody who plays reguarly for one of the top 4 or 5 teams in Engalnd, Spain, Italy or Germany.
Why do Ireland produce so many more elite players than Scotland? Thats probably the nearest we have to a country the size and culture of ours. Ireland ship pretty much all their players to England at the earliest opportunity and they have produced about 5 times the number of elite players than we have in the last 30 years.
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4 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:
If being at a top club gives you the best chance of success how has it failed our youth players so badly? The youth prospects we sent down were considered some of the best talents with the best potential yet they consistently failed when placed into elite clubs youth set ups
This point only stands up if you have examples of the opposite happening. We dont produce elite players regardless of the route.
The only guys to reguarly hold down a starting position at an elite club in the last 20 odd years are Fletcher and Robertson.
As others have said, its different for every player, 1st team football is very important. I dont think anybody is saying its not important however just playing football will only take you so far. You need people to learn off and they are in much greater numbers at clubs in big leagues.
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As much as its frustrating that we have to qualify through the strongest section, I view it like I do the champions league. The competition shouldnt be about having the best X number of teams in Europe / the world.
Its meant to represent World football. Part of the reason why the Champions League has lost alot of appeal to me is that it now largely serves 4 leagues.
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56 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:
Pick out any top club in Europe and look through their team. You will find most of their players either played lower league football or played in a relatively weak European league when they were young players. Very few come through at elite clubs. Haaland and debruyne both prove my point. Both played in relatively weak European leagues before moving up a level.
Elite clubs have youth set ups because they can sell a player on for a small fee to smaller clubs and reap back some money invested in the set up meanwhile if one or two develop into top players they don't miss out. It's just a case of them hoovering up young talents so they don't potentially miss out on someone special.
Not really ethical in my opinion but money talks and the elite clubs have stupid amounts of money these days.
James Forrest was never good enough to make the step up. If doak is good enough for a top club then he would excel at Celtic in the spl and then move up a level. Theres absolutely no evidence to suggest he's too good for the spl or that he wouldn't benefit from a season or two in the spl. Lots of Celtic players have gone onto big things after spending a few seasons there. Ppl need to calm it down on doak. The lads done relatively nothing in his career to suggest he will make it at Liverpool or any top club.
Alot of ppl in here would turn their nose up at doak going to Celtic or the English championship which is strange and slightly delusional to think he is already too good for that level when he hasn't really done anything in his career so far.
Im sorry but you are just wrong regarding top players for elite clubs. I randomly picked Bayern Munich and 7 out of their starting 11 in the Champions League came through at clubs playing in the top leagues. Now this will vary from club to club however its nowhere near the 80% you state.
You say that elite clubs have youth setups because they can hoard players but thats not the question I asked. I asked why the clubs all play in the youth leagues. Up until this season they could buy as many players as they wanted and then just loan them out to clubs to get what you are saying is rhe best development route. So why werent they doing it. Why werent all the lower leagues and non elite leagues of Europe literally littered with players from the elite leagues? If thats the best way for players to develop why would any club not go down this route?
Look at pretty much any sport and the countries that have the best setups, invest the most into coaching and technology etc tend to always get the best results. Take cycling just as an example. Every country in the world has access to bikes amd yet the UK consistently get gold medals. Why? Because we have the best facilites and coaches.
Why would football be any different. For every Andy Robertson that drops down the leagues and gets game time there will be thousands who either drop out the game or never make it to any decent level.
Being at a big club is not a guarentee of success however it does give you the best platform to fulfil your potential. This combined with a good loan move to get adult football is the ideal situation imo.
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17 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:
I say yes it does to the first question you ask, the vast majority of elite players developed by playing against lesser players before making the move up. The stats show that to be true.
Your pulling out the odd individual player who didn't play lower league as an example. Foden is an exception.
The vast majority of top players played in lower leagues or weaker European leagues before heading to an elite club.
It's probably well over 80 percent of the top 200 players in the world came through that route. Elite clubs don't often produce top players because they can't afford to risk giving them chances in games where it's unacceptable for them to lose.
I still don't understand the Armstrong point. I am not suggesting he should of played v England and its irrelevant wether him playing spl contributed to his mistake. I am not suggesting young players spend their entire careers stagnating in the spl or English championship. Armstrong moved on from the spl and onto a better league. He managed to do this because he spent his younger years learning and developing rather than being in some epl youth set up getting no proper experience.
If you feel big epl clubs youth set ups are the best environment for our young players then why has only 1 in 20 years made the grade(mctominay)?
You can have all the dedicated fitness and nutrition plans and dvd video analysis etc but nothing will beat playing competitive football every week against grown men.
It's basically given us all of our best players and it confuses the hell out of me why ppl want our best talents wasting away in youth set ups that have proven not to work.
Would you say 1 player in 20 years is worthwhile?
We havent produced top players regardless of what route they have taken. Fletcher and Robertson are our only really top players in the last 20 or so years. Both took very different routes.
Im not sure your 80% estimate is anywhere near being accurate. Alot obviously depends on what country you grew up in. If you take the top 5 in last years ballon dor (if we are looking at the elite players). Messi, Mbappe and Rodri have only ever played in top leagues. Haaland and DeBrunye both played in their countries league before moving to a top league when still young.
If youth football has little value then why does it exist. If all the top clubs believed that then why wouldnt they just sign players and send them out to lower leagues and foreign leagues of a lesser standard? The reward for producing elite talent is massive so why would every single big club in the world have these academies and spend so much money on coaching, nuturion, analysis etc when they could just loan players to Ross County?
I fully believe that loans benefit players. I think Doak should go out on loan however he is totally correct in leaving Celtic to go to Liverpool to increase his chances of getting to the elite level rather than being the next James Forrest (who has made a good living out of football)
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1 hour ago, mccaughey85 said:
Darren Fletcher came through nearly 20 years ago!!
In the last 20 years it's been mctominay and gilmour, thats it and even gilmour isn't really a great example. He has only just started to make the grade in the epl after a failing at Chelsea and Norwich.
Fair enough I agree rangers have hardly been great at bringing through young Scottish talent but the point was more about gilmour playing football at 18/19/20. I think he would be further ahead in his development had he played English championship or spl for a few seasons. Thats my opinion and I suppose we will never know but what we do know is that only 1 other young player in 20 plus years has been a success at an elite club after coming through their youth set up.
Does that not tell you everything you need to know about whats best for our young players.
Also my argument isn't about necessarily staying in Scotland. I don't care if our young players play league1 or English championship etc. As long as it's first team football that has a proper competitive edge. You ever watched highlights of youth football, it's rubbish. I doubt it even compares well to the Scottish championship.
Not sure what your rambling on about with the Armstrong point. He made a mistake v England that anyone could make. The experience he gained at utd and Celtic is what helped him become an epl player. It's about incremental steps, he got experience at utd playing every week and then played for a huge club(Celtic) where the pressure was massive. That development was what allowed him to go on and do well for Southampton. If anything hes another example of why playing lower league football develops a young player.
Not sure I get your point about Ben doak either. Wouldn't you rather he got experience every week at 17/18 even if it's English championship or spl? To me that would be better for him than not playing. The defenders in the English championship would be massively better than the youth players he's playing against in the epl youth leagues.
Most of the greatest attacking talents spent a season or 2 playing lower league football developing their skills against lesser opponents before stepping up a level.
Guys like robben, mane, ibrahimovic etc all spent seasons getting experience in weaker leagues like the Austrian or Dutch leagues.
I always laugh when ppl think someone like doak is too good to play spl or English championship. I know the excitement goes to ppls heads in here when a talent like doak or gilmour comes along but if you think these guys are guaranteed to be superstars and are too good to slum it at a lower level for a few seasons learning their trade then you are massively mistaken.
I would say 80 percent of world class players in the last 30 years spent time playing in weaker leagues before they stepped up a level. It's what helps them develop and gain experience.
I also find it strange you are using Ben doak and Celtic as an example of bypassing the Scottish league. Celtic have had a constant conveyor belt of young players who played there and then went onto bigger things.
Van dijk, dembele, Armstrong, Tierney, frimpong, Édouard, juranovic.
Personally I would love to see doak go back on loan to Celtic for a season. I think it would help him develop and hone his game. He's very raw and doesn't always have a great end product. Its highly unlikely he becomes a first team regular at Liverpool until improvements are made to his game.
It all depends on what you mean by development. Would a young player gain more experience playing at a lower level? Of course they would. Would that experience help them forge a career in football? More than likely yes. However does playing with and against lesser players help you become an elite player? Thats more questionable.
My point about Armstrong is that even though he had loads of experience with Utd and Celtic, and yes that experience was what put him in the Scotland side, that the level of experience most likely contributed to him making the mistake against England.
Why do players often struggle to make the step up from a lesser league to a better league? Its because everything in the better league is slightly better. Players are fitter, faster, move the ball faster and with more accuracy, more techincal and tactical and punish mistakes.
My point being that playing competitive football from a young age isnt the only factor and can lead to bad habits. Foden being kept at City is an example where they didnt want him to learn bad habits. Training with the 1st team and getting the odd minute was deemed a better path to elite level.
Im all for loan spells to the Championship etc but one of the main things for a young player is to be in an enviroment where they are given every possible advantage. Big EPL clubs have vast resources. Gilmour talks about things like a dedicated tailored fitness and nutrition plan, individual learning cards highlighting things he needed to work on etc, a weekly DVD showing his performance and comparing movements and things to established players etc. None of that was in place at Rangers because it costs alot of money.
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4 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:
Step up from what? He wasnt playing any first team football at Chelsea or rangers. Maybe the training facilities, youth coaching etc, were a step up from rangers but if he had gotten regular first team football at rangers then would he have developed more than playing youth football at chelsea? Imo he would be much further along in his development had he played a couple of seasons at rangers or in the English championship.
Can you maybe explain why none of our other young players benefit from the so called "step up" that elite clubs provide?
Only mctominay has made the grade in 20 years out of dozens of youngsters.
Elite clubs fail to develop our young players. That's a statistical fact and it surprises me ppl still insist that they should go to these clubs and waste away in their youth set ups.
I could understand the reasoning behind it if there were even a handful of success stories but it's the lower league route that is were our best players have come from.
I also don't see gilmour as anything special yet either. I have seen him look terrible for Norwich and chelsea and he has only really started to excel for Brighton recently. He still has much to prove and personally I think Chelsea stunted his development and only now that hes at a lower epl club is he starting to get the proper first team experience that will turn him into a good player.
Also I doubt gilmour was ever going to slate the Chelsea youth set up while he was in it which is when the video was made.
This debate comes uo every now and then with people on one side pointing to the likes of Robertson and Tierney and those on the other pointing at the likes of Fletcher, McTom and Gilmour.
Just taking Gilmour as an example, I am convinced he wouldnt even have become a 1st team regular at Rangers. Neither OF team are any good at bringing through youth but Rangers in particular have a horrific record.
If you stay in Scotland then theres probably a much higher chance of you becoming a football but imo if you want to be an elite footballer then your chances are significantly improved by getting elite coaching and playing alongside elite people your age and then eventually training and playing with elite players.
An example I always give when talking about the importance of playing at a higher standard is somebody like Stuart Armstrong and the mistake he made against England. At that time he was considered to be a very good player. Had something like 125 appearences for Dundee Utd and 60 odd for Celtic under his belt. He was an established football player however the choice of pass he made was a by product of the oppositon he was used to playing against. Losing the ball the way he did would come to nothing 99% of the time in Scotland but in the EPL it gets punished. Only through getting punished do players learn. Im totally convinced that if the same Stuart Armstrong (in terms of talent) had played 50 games in the EPL he doesnt do that pass.
Ben Doak might have had 50 appearences for Celtic by now but none of them would have been against defenders of a decent standard. So he looks like a superstar going past people with ease. Until he comes up against a proper defender in Europe or for Scotland and all of a sudden none of the stuff he normally does works.
Injury Watch
in TA specific
Posted
I think theres a big difference between not playing due to another GK taking your place and not playing due to coming back from a very serious injury. Especially at Gordons age.
I would want to see Gordon in a run of games before taking him to the Euros as he would ideally be our 2nd choice GK. If Clark is 2nd choice then theres no point taking Gordon. You might aswell take a younger GK for experience.