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mcguffin

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Posts posted by mcguffin

    Indyref 2 (2)

    in Anything Goes - Other topics not covered elsewhere

    Posted

    1 minute ago, aaid said:

    I'm not even going to ask you if you've read it and how its relevant because what you've written above shows you don't.

     

    In return I'm not going to ask you if you read it (but I'm guessing you are implying that you have?😃 ). Anyway, the links are above.

    By the way, have you read your UK/English constitution too? Maybe you can post a link? 😜

    Indyref 2 (2)

    in Anything Goes - Other topics not covered elsewhere

    Posted · Edited by mcguffin

    12 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

    image-14.jpeg?w=791

    For those interested in this topic, the QR code points to https://liberation.scot/

    It links to some interesting information. This one is quite good (if you like a bit of history):

    ",,,

    The UK constitution is just England’s constitution. The forced union of 1707 made sure of that. But the commissioners who negotiated on Scotland’s side were no mugs, and it’s thanks to them that our centuries-old Constitution was protected from an enemy fixed on dominating Scotland.
    (...)

    The principles of our constitutional law [are]... in the Claim of Right Act, 1689 ..."

    Okay, the legal language used in that linked document is a bit complex. But my layman's interpretation is that we Scot's have to adopt the legal fiction to be Protestant/Presbyterian on Independence Day 0 and thus separate from the Church-of-England UK 😜? Day 1 we go back to whatever faith/non-faith we want, free to live as we choose, in our newly independent, normal country. (Would love to read a few actual historian's views on this?  All sounds a bit 'ancient' but so did Boris Johnson's 'Pro-roguing of Parliament' and 'Henry VIII powers'?  And look how brutally effective those tactics were?)

     

    Indyref 2 (2)

    in Anything Goes - Other topics not covered elsewhere

    Posted

    11 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

    image-14.jpeg?w=791

    It's quite depressing when you see these points laid out one after the other. The depopulation point in particular. Angus MacNeil (the SNP MP) made a point a few weeks back that this is ongoing and hits the Highlands and Island in particular--the very areas that an Independent Scotland will look to for much of it's industry (tourism, energy, fishing, whisky, agriculture, seaweed harvesting and so on).

    Scotland needs something different and it needs it fast.

    Indyref 2 (2)

    in Anything Goes - Other topics not covered elsewhere

    Posted

    1 minute ago, Ally Bongo said:

    I'm thinking that it is pish as it doesn't make sense

    First of all 99% of British Labour in Scotland's elected officials are rabid Yoons and almost as rabid as the Tories

    Secondly any resemblance of British Labour being a red socialist party are long gone unless you are crazy enough to read the Mail and Express

    Thirdly if you want Independence why the fuck would you vote British Labour

    As i said - pish unless i am missing something

    could both things be true?: 35% of Scottish Labour voters support independence, despite voting for British Labour politicians, 99% of which are, as you succintly put it, 'rabid yoons'? (Crazy as that may sound? )

    (Also, you've got me thinking as to who the 1% of British Labour who aren't rabid yoons might be? 🕵️‍♂️)

    Indyref 2 (2)

    in Anything Goes - Other topics not covered elsewhere

    Posted

    11 hours ago, Alibi said:

    I'm sure the vast bulk of SNP members still want indy, and it's something like 35% of Labour voters in Scotland who also want indy.  Bear in mind that the SNP has been under attack from the MSM for many years now and the ridiculously protracted "investigation" into SNP finances (which has not led to any charges being brought so far) plus the constant "ferries" narrative is bound to affect support at this stage.  There was a poll yesterday which apparently suggested the SNP would get about 32.5% of the vote for a UK election if held today, and would only get 14 seats as a result, but frankly that sounds a bit far fetched.  As soon a a genuine election campaign starts, Labour will be shredded by the revelation that they are pro-brexit, anti immigrant, anti single market, anti indy, anti indyref2, all matters that many people don't realise at the moment as the MSM keep those things pretty much obscured. Sarwar has looked a total arse trying to defend the two child benefit cap.  how is he going to sell pro brexit to the electorate.

    It would maybe help if Alba would stop some of the more over the top attackes on the SNP and concentrate on what really matters.  Salmond generally criticises with a degree of restraint.  Worth bearing in mind that we are all supposed to be on the same side.  Yesterday there was a story going around about Steven Flynn eating lobster - a sort of let them eat cake story - but the reality was that he was at an event promoting Scottish seafood, an even in memory of a recently deceased businessman in Oban.  it wasn't the yoons attacking him; it was Alba supporters, or at least people who claimed they are Alba supporters.  I get the feeling that many of them are posting under a false flag.

    The SNP needs a re-boot.  The toxic policies need to be dropped pronto, and we need to get back to sensible, pragmatic governance.  I'm not at all convinced the current leadership has the charisma or ability to do that, but they need to get a move on. and for the imminent UK election, they need to tear Labour's evident Toryism tribute act to pieces in the campaign. I'm trying to think who could do that, but unfortunately the obvious name isn't even in the sNP now.

    A lot of good points! That estimate "...35% of Labour voters in Scotland...also want indy..." is pretty encouraging if accurate. On the one hand, it's a  bit depressing that the Indy supporters are maybe entrenched in their respective parties (SNP vs Alba vs Labour and so on). But I also find it encouraging that there are members of all these parties (and other parties, and independents) who support independence. 

    Would love for their to be some kind of informal 'truce' agreed with the parties and a joint strategy on  the-one-and-only-one issue of independence drawn up.  (Other countries have different political parties, different viewpoints, heated debates, biased media outlets. But somehow they've still managed to become independent and run their own affairs. Are we are so different? I don't think so)

    The news thread

    in Anything Goes - Other topics not covered elsewhere

    Posted

    8 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

    The British Establishment are giving billions to each other whilst starving a chunk of the population at the same time

    ...I read too that the UK (i.e. London) is touting itself as a destination for AI corporations. So I think we can add a large percentage of the workforce  being 'automated out of a job' to this expanding chunk of the population.
    (Incidentally, I wonder what the carbon footprint of the AI datacenters actually is? Haven't read much about that amongst the hype).

    The future is not looking good in my opinion.

    Indyref 2 (2)

    in Anything Goes - Other topics not covered elsewhere

    Posted

    4 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

    Can see why he's leaving SNP then as they've shown next to no interest in it for a while now. 

    you may well be right 😞   (I don't know. Maybe we need some cross-party initiative in the next few years? Surely the bulk of SNP supporters must still be hungry for independence, even if their salaried representatives are more lukewarm. And *surely* there must voters with sympathies towards independence in the Labour Party? Maybe even within the Conservative Party, LibDems and Greens?)

    Indyref 2 (2)

    in Anything Goes - Other topics not covered elsewhere

    Posted

    47 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

    SNP MP Angus MacNeil has party membership suspended

    Angus MacNeil has been suspended from the SNP after not taking up an offer to rejoin the party's Westminster group.

    The Na h-Eileanan an Iar MP had the whip removed for a week after being involved in a clash with the party's chief whip in Parliament.

    He subsequently announced he would sit as an independent MP until at least October.

    Mr MacNeill remained an SNP member at that point - but the BBC understands his membership has now been suspended.

    An SNP spokesman said: "Angus MacNeil MP was advised by the SNP National Secretary on Wednesday that she considered him to be in breach of the party's code of conduct by his decision to resign from the SNP Westminster parliamentary group.

    "Having acknowledged this, Mr MacNeil did not take up the offer to rejoin the SNP parliamentary group and the matter was, therefore, yesterday referred to the SNP Member Conduct Committee for consideration."

    Mr MacNeil said: "I did not leave the SNP and I hope the SNP haven't left me, as that was what went wrong with Labour in Scotland".

    He is one of the SNP's longest-serving MPs, having first been elected in 2005 but has been a vocal critic of the party leadership in recent years, particularly over its independence strategy.

    Mr MacNeil was involved in a row with chief whip Brendan O'Hara earlier this month over Mr MacNeil missing votes in the House of Commons.

    It was alleged he threatened Mr O'Hara during the confrontation - which Mr MacNeil denies - and had the whip removed for a week.

    That suspension had been due to end earlier this week, but Mr MacNeil announced in a lengthy Twitter post that he would not return to the Westminster group until at least after the SNP conference in October - and even then only if the party was was able to provide "clarity" on its independence strategy.

    He accused the party of being "clueless" on independence and claimed that its leadership had been playing "tricks" on members over the past six years and continually "kicking the can down the road".

    Speaking to BBC Radio Scotland on Wednesday, Mr MacNeil said he had "no plans" to join the Alba Party and had not been approached to do so.

    The main thing is that he supports Independence. So the SNP/Greens can rely on his support for their continued bid for Scottish Independence.  Other issues don't really matter so much in my opinion.

    Indyref 2 (2)

    in Anything Goes - Other topics not covered elsewhere

    Posted

    30 minutes ago, aaid said:

    The problem is that in the UK people want and expect Scandinavian levels of public services but want to US levels of taxation.    Remember taxation covers a number of things; income tax, corporation tax, VAT, council tax, etc., etc

    The UK is 23rd of 38 countries in the OECD in terms of tax revenue to GDP.  

    It’s pretty simple if you want better public services you need to pay higher taxes.  

    Source: https://www.oecd.org/tax/revenue-statistics-united-kingdom.pdf

    IMG_0256.png

    From your graph:
    "...the United Kingdom had a tax-to-GDP ratio of 33.5% compared with the OECD average of 34.1%..."

    Those numbers look pretty similar (34%). So the UK has 'average' taxation, but some might say we have 'below average services'.

    Maybe not so simple? But nice graph all the same.

    Indyref 2 (2)

    in Anything Goes - Other topics not covered elsewhere

    Posted

    30 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

    I have links to Hungary and Spain and both countries seem to have better public facilities like libraries, pools, general town centre architecture and cleanliness (albeit there are issues in both countries too...in fact i don't know how they do it with some much corruption going on haha).  maybe EU funds some of it?  don't know.

    I don't know about Spain, but corruption does seem to be rife in Eastern European countries. But then we don't have to look far to see corruption in our own countries. I think the difference is that the corruption in Eastern Europe is a more in-your-face sportscar driving gangster type of corruption. While in in the UK, it seems a more well-spoken, subtler, better class of corruption.   Why that might express itself as better public services, I'm not sure. (Maybe because most gangsters grew up using public schools, doctors, dentist and so on, and so maybe value them more? Just a crazy hypothesis though 🙂 )

    Indyref 2 (2)

    in Anything Goes - Other topics not covered elsewhere

    Posted

    5 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

    the industry is resilient and all the inshore lads were against brexit so it really was easy pickings for the snp until this lunatic driven policy was brought forward,, yes the scottish electorate need re-motivated,, its just that the SNP are getting them motivated against their policies

    👍

    Indyref 2 (2)

    in Anything Goes - Other topics not covered elsewhere

    Posted

    7 minutes ago, mcguffin said:

    There's maybe a case for adding:
    13. Highly Protected Marine Areas  Okay, the plan was cancelled. But not before angering voters in areas with what's left of a post-Brexit fishing industry?

    I'm no political strategist, but I think there might be work needing to be done to re-motivate the Scottish electorate?
     

    ooops, sorry Hampden Loon, you had HPMA covered by item 5.  👍 As you were.

    Indyref 2 (2)

    in Anything Goes - Other topics not covered elsewhere

    Posted

    1 hour ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

    1. nullifies one main argument for independence when coming out against the oil and gas industry.

    2. rumored stitch up of the the most effective independence advocate ever.

    3. Chases a vote losing GRR reform bill and hides membership loses 

    4.fills the party with GRR advocates and isolates anyone who speaks out against it.

    5. isolates all the costal communities in Scotland with HMPA'S proposals

    6. increases taxes in middle to higher earners 

    7. Pushes juryless court cases 

    8. Bottle return scheme debacle

    9. ferries debacle on the clyde (again turning island communities against the snp)

    10. A9 cancelation(or massive delay

    11. doing everything possible to have humza elected as party leader.

    12. Taking the uk goverment to court regarding independence.

    There's maybe a case for adding:
    13. Highly Protected Marine Areas  Okay, the plan was cancelled. But not before angering voters in areas with what's left of a post-Brexit fishing industry?

    I'm no political strategist, but I think there might be work needing to be done to re-motivate the Scottish electorate?
     

    Indyref 2 (2)

    in Anything Goes - Other topics not covered elsewhere

    Posted

    3 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

    Angela Haggerty (who the Protestants hate) has been replaced by India Willoughby (who the gender critical hate) as the go to Indy face to "balance the programme up" 

     

    Thanks Ally! Actually I just listened to the show and, with your comment, it now makes sense.
    I was suprised when Willoughby came out with pro-Independence noises during the show. (Didn't come across as being particularly well-informed about any of the issues discussed if I was to be honest, but the studio audience seemed to like what they heard).
    Incidentally, Fiona Hyslop came across very well. (Head and shoulders above the others: e.g. Lord Offord relied solely on rattling off percentages to 'win' his argument. Anas Sarwar, on the other hand was tying himself in knots trying not to be seen to agree with anything Hyslop said--e.g. regarding Scottish Drug deaths, although he clearly agreed with her about fundamental drugs problems specific to Scotland.).

    A good listen if you're really bored.

    Indyref 2 (2)

    in Anything Goes - Other topics not covered elsewhere

    Posted

    On 7/8/2023 at 12:07 AM, scotlad said:

    She sure is, but even she shouldn't be out of her depth against that dense cunt Anas Sarwar.

    Also, isn't Lord Offord the Billy-Connolly-lookalike with the "Scotland is shite and I've got the numbers to prove it" patter?  Chuck in India Willoughby and that's quite the panel you've got there.

    SNP leadership election

    in Anything Goes - Other topics not covered elsewhere

    Posted

    2 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

    Yeah, I am not a fan of Humza but he doesn’t deserve the shite he is getting just a moment into the job. Good luck though hoping the media will cut him some slack . They are like vultures. 

    Even their greatest critics begrudgingly agree that both  Salmond and Sturgeon are political forces. They would be laughed off the park to suggest otherwise. 

    I do agree that Salmond has been airbrushed out, some people have short memories and others easily influenced. 

    👍I agree on all points.

    SNP leadership election

    in Anything Goes - Other topics not covered elsewhere

    Posted · Edited by mcguffin

    1 hour ago, TDYER63 said:

    I would agree with much of that although I think the reason there was little interruption is because the presenter and interviewee are probably in mutual agreement about their dislike of NS. 

    Couple of other things . There was a question at the end about the Scottish publics opinion of Alex Salmond and Humza Yousaf. On Salmond’s ratings , MacWhirter  simply saying the left dont like him,  then went on at some length to praise him and discuss the  the court case. He made it very obvious who he was blaming. 
    He then goes on to annihilate Yousaf’s public ratings and ability .
    He may be correct on Yousaf but its a lot more than the left that dont like Salmond. Infact his ratings may be as bad as Yousaf in Scotland. Which is hard for me to say as I rate Salmond highly and would have him back as FM in a shot.

    Then, on the Bute House agreement and the SG bowing down to pressure from the Greens. MacWhirter says something like‘ The Greens are a pro independence party . They are going to vote for independence anyway, why give them any power’. 
    That is far too simplistic and not entirely true. The Greens are a party that are pro independence but only under their terms. There is no way the SNP would have got their backing on a number of things without giving them something in return. I would say that it was a pretty naive thing to say if it wasn’t someone as experienced as Iain MacWhirter saying it. He knew what he was saying and it is misleading . 
    That doesn’t mean I like the direction the Greens are taking the SNP in though. 

    These are very good points. I agree with you.

    I have to say, I was uncomfortable with Macwhirter's answer to the Humza Yousaf question at the end of the interview.  Macwhirter took a few cheap shots (which I won't repeat here) which were unnecessary. (The poor guy has been in the job for 5 minutes and was dealt a bit of a duff hand. I think the media should cut him a little bit of slack?)

    On the other hand, Macwhirter praised both Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond as political heavy weights. I found it refreshing to hear someone praising both, which is pretty rare nowadays. (I think there is some truth to Iain Macwhirter's claim that many in the Indy movement have 'airbrushed'  out Alex Salmond.)

    SNP leadership election

    in Anything Goes - Other topics not covered elsewhere

    Posted · Edited by mcguffin

    1 hour ago, TDYER63 said:

    After listening to it I still think it is pretty biased.  Iain McWhirters own politics are very obvious, or at least what he doesnt like is pretty obvious. And by his own admission Brendan ONeill doesn’t like Nicola Sturgeon .
    If I was an outsider listening to that I think I would be misled. Not necessarily because of inaccuracies, but because of things that weren’t said. It is definitely not a neutral piece of journalism IMO. But very little is these days 😞

    Thanks for posting it though , despite the bias there were a lot of uncomfortable truths that people need to accept if things are to change. 

     

    Thanks TDYER63. It's interesting to hear your views.

    I listened to it again, and I think I have to agree with you. I like the guy, but yes, Iain Macwhirter definitely has his own biases and doesn't make much effort to be objective (e.g. it seems pretty clear he doesn't like the Greens, supports further North Sea oil exploration, and doesn't have much affinity for the Scottish Government's more progressive policies). And yes, I noticed that too when Brendan O'Neill said that he didn't like Nicola Sturgeon.  But at least, after that O'Neill let Macwhirter answer his questions with few interruptions. 

    But as you say, there were some uncomfortable truths. And I did find Macwhirter's ability to summarise the historical events that have taken place in Scotland since 2014 (and before), quite impressive.

    To be honest, I just found it refreshing to hear a London-based journalist, of any political persuasion, giving a pro-Indy Scot a chance to talk without being interrupted or hectored😞.




     

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