kwhitelaw
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Posts posted by kwhitelaw
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17 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:
I get that but finishing 4th in this group would be a disaster we can ill afford.
Are we likely to drop down into the 4th pot for the WC draw if we finish 4th?
We could draw with Cyprus and win against Kazakhstan and still finish 4th but I wouldn’t have thought those results would see us drop out of the 3rd pot
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48 minutes ago, Morrisandmoo said:
We are not asking for him to play 2-3 times a week. Ae are asking him to turn up for the national team to let Steve Clarke work with him alongside the rest of the squad.
Plenty of caps? He has 12.
And Scotland management have made it clear that it was not their decision and It has been wholly Aresnal and Tiermey's call.
Premier league players are never 100% fit. The approach you are proposing vastly overestimes the risk of catastrophic injury and vastly underestinates the benefit of having your best team play together.
Without a doubt i would have all my best players, who are playing for their club, in the national team...every single time. Even if that means catastrophic injury to one player every 50 years. Because that approach at least gives us a chance of qualifying. By imagaining these highly unlikely catastrophic scenarios we give ourselvea zero chance.of.sucess. But crack on we will have a good group of fit failures come march. Briliant outcome.
We really are a bunch of losers, completely unprepared to do the hard stuff it takes to win.
Aye he has 12 caps over which he has played left back, CB in a back 3 and right back, what’s left to discover? If Clarke needs KT to be at the training sessions for these games to get an idea of how to work with him then he needs emptied ASAP and an actual manager found to replace him. But he doesn’t, he, like you rightly, wants his best 11 available to have the best chance of winning these games. He was being called up to play. We play Saturday and Wednesday and Arsenal play Southampton a week on Saturday so we were potentially asking KT to play 2-3 games in a week. Arsenal are quite right to protect their investment and ask that he doesn’t play.
unfortunately these next 2 games have no bearing at all on whether we qualify or not so I ask you again, what’s the point of risking it and potentially be without him in March?!
I hope to Christ Clarke doesn’t share your opinion that we should play guys carrying injuries regardless of the potentially disastrous outcome or no club would ever release their players to us again!
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30 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:
I though it was a hernia op, not a hip op he had? If it was a hop operation was it the same as Murray's?
We will have to agree to disagree here. He is fit enough to start and finish matches for Arsenal and play in another 3 or 4 matches, this means he is deemed as match fit but needs to rest conveniently when not one but two international breaks come round
That was his most recent injury, the one that they're keeping an eye on and trying not to cause a recurrence of is the original Osteitis pubis injury in his hip.
6 minutes ago, Morrisandmoo said:Rest a player in November for a game in March...are you serious?
The idea that we can throw our best team together every couple of years, when a big game comes around...and expect to win, is hopelessly stupid.
To suceed you need to prepare. For international football, especially for teams bereft of superstars, that means lots of caps in your starting 11. Yet here we have scotland fans lining up to say that one of the most important factors in maximising our potential for sucess is not very important.
With attitudes like that our support deserve fuck all and that is exactly what we will get come March. And the reason for that is directly related to these cunts not turning up this week. But fuck it at least tierney will turn up fresh and ready for the glorius failure we have set up for ourselves - having been rested 4 months previous.
And even if, by some miracle, we fluke two results we will be pumped from pillar to post at the euros with the most inexperienced and least committed team in the competition.
Lol! No, that's not what I'm saying at all ffs!
Right I'll try to explain this a little clearer. Tierney is managing a hip problem that he is not 100% recovered from, one that has ended careers in the past, google ex-Rangers player Scott Nisbet as an example. Playing 2 or 3 games in a week right now is not a good idea as it could cause a recurrence of this injury. If there were Scotland games in December, January or February he may well be ready by then but there aren't and right now, he isn't so he can't play for Scotland until March.
Do we really want to risk, at best, a recurrence that keeps him out of the games in March or at worst ends his career at 23 years old?!! No one within Arsenal or Scotland thinks its worth the risk. He has plenty of caps and we know what he he is capable of so it's not like him coming back in March is some unknown risk to throw him into the starting line up.
Christ........
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2 hours ago, vanderark14 said:
I have plenty fucking perspective thanks
Tierney was given slack for missing games last month because he was just back from injury. He is not just back from injury, he is playing regular football for his club but playing two more or even one more international match is some how going to set him back. I think the reason you are willing to give him slack is you feel these matches are meaningless, I don't. Treating friendlies and latter qualifications matches as meaningless is a big problem IMO. It doesn't give the manager enough time with the players he wants to work with, he basically has a different set of players available for games that matter because certain players can now be bothered to play because its a match they deem important enough
Its been said already, Mckenna is just back from injury as is Devlin. Should they have been given a break?
If anything our support gives our players far too much slack. You look at other nations, their players turn up and want to fight for a place. We have allowed the rot to set in, its started as soon as McLliesh gave players a break prior to the south american tour. I really hoped things would change with Clarke but alas not, picking and choosing seems to be acceptable.
We've gone from being a support that got annoyed with players playing for their club the weekend after pulling out of a scotland squad to accepting players picking and choosing their games. Its little wonder our players have limited caps
As for the other call offs, I believe MCTominey is injured, he was stretchered off, that would be some act if he wasn't. I'm not too sure if Fraser and Robertson is in that category or not, it may have been a bad choice of words with Robertson but what if he did mean it?
IT would be one of hell of a coincidence if 4 of our 5 best players were injured at the same time.
Nah, sorry but in Tierneys situation I don't think you do.
You're comparing Tierney's hip injury to McKenna's injury (hamstring tear I believe? Correct me if i'm wrong) and they're obviously 2 completely different situations, Tierneys being far more serious and needing much more care and attention. I actually stated in my post that hip injuries can be a minefield and used Andy Murray who was out for nearly 2 years, even considering retirement, as an example .
I'm not treating these games as meaning less as I'm well aware that they contribute to our coefficient and could have a bearing on our seeding for future qualifiers so I completely agree with you that it's a problem that there are certain players doing that! You may have noticed I'm not providing a similar defence of Ryan Fraser!
I disagree, however, that we should risk the fitness (and potentially career) of a player of Tierney's caliber for these 2 games.
While I agree there are plenty of happy clappers there are also far too many Scotland fans also have a track history of giving players far too much unwarranted stick. I don't want another Gary McAllister situation where we're are deprived of a good player because fans go overboard with abuse
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5 minutes ago, er yir macaroon said:
I have some sympathy for this argument, although it wouldn’t happen if he was English. Robertson’s statement I find deeply worrying. International football is a luxury for these players and it seems they’re only committed when it suits them.
You think Southgate & Arsenal would risk a further hip injury to a £30m player in 2 games that wouldn't matter a jot to qualification? Not a chance.
I agree Robertson's statement seems worrying, but it think it's probably being a case of needing to choose his words more carefully. I don't doubt his commitment at all either.
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10 hours ago, Morrisandmoo said:
Im now even more raging at Tierney. He has let his country down big time. Should be ashamed of himself.
Never had him down as a spineless rat...but there you go.
10 hours ago, vanderark14 said:No no no hes getting himself right for March and focusing on settling in at arsenal 😂. We should just accept it
Our support really has lost its bottle if we are buying that bull shit.
Jesus wept, I'm as frustrated about the situation with Tierney as the rest of you but can we all get some fucking perspective please?!
The lad is just back playing from a serious hip injury which was exacerbated by playing far too many games over the last 2 seasons. Hip injuries are are a bloody minefield at the best of times, just look at what Andy Murray has had to go through over the last 2 years with his!
Let him fully recover, the last thing we want is him fucking up his hip again against bloody Cyprus or Kazakhstan in games that essentially don't mean much (I know coefficients, finish 3rd, blah blah) and he's out again for the play offs.
If he plays regularly for Arsenal between now and the play offs in March and pulls out again with the same excuses, by all means rip him a new one, but i think we should cut him a bit of slack for now.
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4 hours ago, Catchart Circle said:
It will get worse should we fail to negotiate the play offs for the Euros.
I get the feeling a number of players are getting a bit fed up with the Scotland set up but are hanging on as there is still a reasonable chance of playing at a major tournament.
If that comes to pass I expect a number of them to call time on their international careers for good with the usual quote `to concentrate on their busy and demanding club schedule.'
If we fail via the playoffs then it’s time for Clarke to do what O’Neill did for NI, bring on the best young players from the U21s and start from scratch. It will probably mean sacrificing the World Cup qualifiers and maybe even the next Euros but needs must.
anyone under 30 who calls time on their international careers from this squad I say good riddance to them, they’re obviously not committed enough.
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This is becoming brutal. We really need to get some much needed confidence and momentum going before the playoffs and these 2 games were a great chance to do it. A fully fit squad should have been more than capable of getting 6 points but now, especially with that defence, I'm worried we may only get a point now!
What rips my knitting most is, with the possible exception of McTominay, all these guys will be playing next week for their clubs. Fucks me off no end...
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Both these games are giving me the fear! We need to get off to a flyer in Cyprus and if we get an early goal we should win no bother.
Cyprus 1-2 Scotland
Scotland 1-0 Kazakhstan
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Nope! It's minging!
For the same price I've bought the Score Draw 1982 home and away tops instead, they'll do me for the foreseeable future
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Best
1.
2.
3.
Take your pick from any of the last 20 years for the worst ones. I didn't mind the 3 home tops from Euro 96 through to France '98 or the 2011 Adidas home effort, and the 2014 away one actually grew on me.
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Jeez, I think folk might be over reacting just a touch here.
Firstly, before his injury Tierney was pretty much an ever present in the squads, including friendlies, and was played out of position either at RB or CB in a back 3 to accommodate our lack of options there and didn't grumble.
Now, I don't know how true this is as it came from someone "in the know" with a friend who worked for Celtic. But when his injury was at it's worst and he wasn't even playing for Celtic there were supposedly real fears for Tierney's career. Scott Nisbet's career ending pelvic injury was used as a comparison.
Thankfully it never went that way but the fact it was a concern is maybe why Celtic weren't and Arsenal having just shelled out £25M for him, aren't keen for him to play too many unnecessary games!
People have mentioned Darren Fletcher playing and travelling through his illness for Scotland like some sort of martyr. Did it occur to any of you that if he had maybe put himself first and rested when he should have, Scotland and Man Utd maybe wouldn't have been robbed of his talents for nearly 2 years?! If Tierney himself is keen to play in these games either then you know what I'll cut him some slack this time round. A lad of his talent, risking his career before he's 25 to play Cyprus and Kazakhstan just seems a tad idiotic to me.
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Oooft! I didn't think they could do much worse than that white sleeved monstrosity a couple of years ago but they have! That is absolutely honking!
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Marshall, while nowhere near his best anymore, was in no way at fault for the goals we conceded in the last 2 games. He also made some pretty impressive stops as well to help keep those scores down. Our problems won't be solved until our defense improves.
As Marshall is the only one playing regularly for his club side at the highest level so it has to be him in goal with either (or both) McLaughlin or Kelly as back up
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39 minutes ago, ElChris04 said:
Neil Lennon Said Recently That he wouldn’t be afraid to play Christie as a CF/ST If eddy needs as rest as he has the finishing ability to do so. I feel him in a CF role with McTominay, McGinn and Gilmour Behind him is something very very spicy.
If Scotland's style of play were similar to Celtic's I'd be in total agreement. But would Christie be of any use with Clarke's route 1 hoofball tactics?
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Shame, he was one of my favorite players over the last 10 years. As many have said he'd have had many more caps if not for a couple of really bad injuries! I'm pretty sure we had to do with out him for the majority of the Euro 16 qualifiers where, at his peak, he could have made the difference in a couple of those games that saw us lose out again.
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4 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:
How about if we don't qualify for finals the players have to go to a boot camp running at the same time as a punishment? Might see a bit more effort that way.
Aye why not?! We can go one better and not even tell them it's happening! We'll round them up by jumping them and putting a bag over their head SAS style!! Bag comes off and their in an army training camp in the highlands with Clarke in full Gunnery Seargent Hartman mode. Couldn't hurt could it?
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4 minutes ago, andyD said:
Could we do something at the end of the season? A 5 day training camp or something just doing light stuff. Working on system, positions, transitions, set pieces. No heavy training, mostly theory on the pitch. Feels like it'd be of value to me.
In a perfect world aye, but can you imagine how those conversations between Clarke and the club managers (especially Gerrard and Lennon) would go if that was suggested? Not a chance the clubs would be up for that. I also seriously doubt many players would be keen to join up for that given they barely have any time off between the end of the season and the start of pre-season these days either. There's an international break in June anyway so that also scuppers that idea
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47 minutes ago, andyD said:
Too early to be talking about sacking him. McLeish was awful from the off but still got a dozen games. Clarke has had less than half that.
There's worrying signs for me tho.
For me we lost last night largely due to Clarke. He's been going an for man in the games so far, and against Russia in Russia, going 1 for 1 marking Dzyuba at set pieces seems kinda crazy to me. If you asked someone with no football knowledge how they'd set up to defend a corner, they'd put two men on Dzyuba. But Clarke went man for man and sad day for Mulgrew. He got outmuscled by a 6'6" brick shit-house. But for me he shouldn't have been left to do that alone.
The stoney faced distant stare after we conceded wasn't encouraging either. Surely that's the moment that your players need something from you, but Clarke just seemed to be staring into the abyss. Made me wonder if he's actually enjoying the reality of being Scotland manger, he's said a few times now about how different it is to club management and bemoaned how little time he has with the players. Thinking back, Strachan left a couple of match day fixtures empty and just had training camps for a few international breaks. Maybe that's something that Clarke would benefit from doing?
There's been a couple of other odd choices too tho.
Why start a slow players like Snoddy in a wide position last night to play on the break? Surely you want a player with pace for the counterattacks to be more likely to result in a chance.
Why play 2 slower wide men against Belgium when again we're playing on the break for 90 minutes?
Why sub Forrest for McLean in the 1st Russia match, destroying our shape as we had no wide right replacement on the pitch. Then 'fix' it 15 minutes later with another sub. Seems obvious it would wreck our shape.. and it didnt take 15 minutes to see 'whatever we were trying' wasn't working.
So for me there's worries.. but let's wait and see what happens against Cyprus and the Kazakhs.
That isn't an option now with the introduction of the nations league and us being in a 6 team group. All international breaks for the foreseeable future require us to play a competitive game.
Can't argue much with everything else you've said though
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19 minutes ago, daviebee said:
As I said, we have the MAKINGS of one, we obviously don't have it at the moment. McGinn, McTominay, McGregor, McLean, Christie, Armstrong, Fraser aren't bad players. They might not be great ones but some combo from there should be good enough to compete at international level. The problem is mainly what's behind them and what's in front of them.
We do have a decent midfield!! On paper at least anyway, 7 of our midfield squad play in one of the top leagues in Europe! So far we've just not been able to find a way to make a decent unit out of them.
My only concern so far with Clarke's tactics is that this backs to the wall defending and lumping it up to a lone striker that can't actually hold up the ball (Burke, McBurnie) is completely taking the midfield out of the equation.
Clarke obviously needs time to get things right but he also needs to show he's going to use that time wisely! O'Neill spent his initial 3 years working with promising young NI players and eventually it came good. I know he's been hampered by injuries but players like Mulgrew should not be in the side again, he's done!
These next 3 games are about getting our promising U21s in the A squad and seeing what they can do. Gilmour especially! If they're good enough it won't do their career prospects any harm. D Fletcher got his debut before he'd kicked a ball for the Man U first team and look how that turned out!
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7 hours ago, ICT fan Shaun said:
For this one I'd go 4-4-2.
Marshall
O'Donnell, Gallagher, Devlin, Robertson
Forrest, Fleck, McTominay, Snodgrass
Christie
Shankland .
I was going to put McLaughlin in ahead of Marshall but thought that would be harsh on Marshall who, apart from tonight, has been excellent for us.
Liam Palmer and Charlie Mulgrew need dropped so I put in SOD and Gallagher.
I suspect Burke is out injured so it's Shankland to start, with Christie just behind him in a 4-4-1-1 formation.
What did Marshall do wrong last night? First 2 Goals were fantastic strikes and his defense were to blame for the next 2!
I would keep Palmer in, SOD is chronic! My only complaint was how narrow he was playing at times but I noticed Robertson doing the same quite often so maybe he was instructed to.
Agree with Mulgrew being dropped, he's done unfortunately and has been for a while.
Can't argue with the rest of your choices.
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I might be completely making this up but I seem to remember a couple of games we did ok with Snodgrass up front as a lone striker. I wouldn't be against giving Palmer another shot at RB but BBC don't have him in the squad options
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7 hours ago, scotlad said:
Last time I saw Henderson play he had a howler that essentially cost his team a point. His manager wasn't all that sympathetic either, going by his post match comments! We can all have an off day though.
As for Gunn, if he wants to play for Scotland I'm sure, barring injuries or a 'golden generation' of Scottish goalkeepers emerging out of nowhere, he will.
On the other hand, if he'd rather spend international weekends watching England on the TV and hoping he might one day make his way far enough up the England pecking order to win a cap, then that's what he'll do; and if so, fair enough.
I saw him at the weekend against Thistle. Not the sternest of tests, admittedly, due to Thistle being shite so far this season (I just love football the noo) but I remember thinking their keeper seemed quite vocal and he commanded his area quite confidently.
He's 21, though, so I'd be surprised if he's gained a lot of height - don't people tend to stop reach their full height by the age of 18? Wikipedia reckons he's 6' 3", so whenever he reached that height, I think it's fair to say he's tall enough for the job!
He wasn't bad when he was at Morton last season on loan and I'd have had him back over the 2 roasters we currently have. He definitely has promise, he had a blinder against Dundee a couple of weeks ago in the Friday night live game and earned Queens a decent draw!
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Hi all
I’ve got a mate on holiday in Chicago hoping to watch the game on Thursday (Christ knows why lol). Can anyone recommend any pubs or supporters clubs that would be showing it?
cheers.
Watching the game in Chicago
in TA Clubs, Social, Charities
Posted
Aye a wee bit late lads but cheers all the same 😂😂