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Jeremy Corbyn - fecked?


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6 minutes ago, antidote said:

I don’t think the UK government is ‘extreme right wing’ what they’re doing is pandering to the extreme right wing. 

Agree that Corbyn will never unite the Labour Party. 

 

He should never have been trying to "unite the Labour party". From day one, he should have been doing everything he could to boot out those Blairite Bawbags. It's only starting to happen now, but he has taken for too long over it. The party membership want him to get rid of these folk who are just Tories in disguise. 

 

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13 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

How are they doing that? 

By not facing down the extreme right wing of the tory party. 

There’s estimated around 70 no deal brexiteers, you could say the ukip wing, in the tory party and without getting into what the voters voted for, Im of the opinion that a lot of leave voters didn’t exactly know what they were letting themselves into with the eu. 

David Cameron caved into the extreme right wing in his party just to try and save his party, effectively stopping ukip splitting the tory vote. 

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37 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

He should never have been trying to "unite the Labour party". From day one, he should have been doing everything he could to boot out those Blairite Bawbags. It's only starting to happen now, but he has taken for too long over it. The party membership want him to get rid of these folk who are just Tories in disguise. 

 

Hence where we are today. 

We had a discussion a good few months back on both parties splitting and a new middle ground party emerging. 

Exactly what is happening now. 

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12 minutes ago, antidote said:

By not facing down the extreme right wing of the tory party. 

There’s estimated around 70 no deal brexiteers, you could say the ukip wing, in the tory party and without getting into what the voters voted for, Im of the opinion that a lot of leave voters didn’t exactly know what they were letting themselves into with the eu. 

David Cameron caved into the extreme right wing in his party just to try and save his party, effectively stopping ukip splitting the tory vote. 

Wanting to leave the EU without a deal is extreme right wing? 

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22 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Wanting to leave the EU without a deal is extreme right wing? 

I think you know, as well as everyone else, that it is the extreme right wing, ukip in disguise, that’s driving a no deal brexit. 

Its okay for the multi millionaires in the tory party to shuffle their cash overseas.

What about us plebs!

to answer your question: yes and we are talking about within the tory right wing government. 

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10 minutes ago, antidote said:

I think you know, as well as everyone else, that it is the extreme right wing, ukip in disguise, that’s driving a no deal brexit. 

Its okay for the multi millionaires in the tory party to shuffle their cash overseas.

What about us plebs!

to answer your question: yes and we are talking about within the tory right wing government. 

Politicians / wealthy folk hiding money overseas isn’t a right or left ideology. 

To be honest I don’t know what’s driving brexit beyond what we’re told but I don’t buy the referendum being called to appease UKIP / extreme right Tory voters. 

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8 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

To be honest I don’t know what’s driving brexit beyond what we’re told but I don’t buy the referendum being called to appease UKIP / extreme right Tory voters. 

Of course it was

It was another of Cameron's gambles

Going into the 2015 election he promised an EU referendum if he couldnt get significant changes from it

The reason for this is that UKIP won nearly 27% of the 2014 EU Elections

This followed polling in 2012 which gave Labour a 10 point lead over the Tories due to the rise in support for UKIP

This Labour lead in the polls also went down as UKIP gained support from them too

UKIP also won two by elections from the Tories in 2014

And that's why Parliament is in the state it is now with both main parties fighting over that UKIP vote as it's the difference between power and opposition

(Cameron along with everyone else thought Remain would win and it was a bet to nothing)

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16 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

 I don’t buy the referendum being called to appease UKIP / extreme right Tory voters. 

Of course you’re entitled to your opinion, but the perceived judgement is that it was. 

Ukip took about 4,000.000 votes at the last GE and you can bet your bottom dollar that most of those votes would have been natural tory votes. 

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24 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Of course it was

It was another of Cameron's gambles

Going into the 2015 election he promised an EU referendum if he couldnt get significant changes from it

The reason for this is that UKIP won nearly 27% of the 2014 EU Elections

This followed polling in 2012 which gave Labour a 10 point lead over the Tories due to the rise in support for UKIP

This Labour lead in the polls also went down as UKIP gained support from them too

UKIP also won two by elections from the Tories in 2014

And that's why Parliament is in the state it is now with both main parties fighting over that UKIP vote as it's the difference between power and opposition

(Cameron along with everyone else thought Remain would win and it was a bet to nothing)

 

21 minutes ago, antidote said:

Of course you’re entitled to your opinion, but the perceived judgement is that it was. 

Ukip took about 4,000.000 votes at the last GE and you can bet your bottom dollar that most of those votes would have been natural tory votes. 

Maybe one day we’ll find out if there was anything deeper going on. 

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12 minutes ago, phart said:

Who's funding this Party? Some maddo on twitter is saying Israel.

They're not a new party - as yet - I suspect they haven't any funding as yet, anyone suggesting they are being funded by X, Y or Z is just making it up.

if they want to keep going then they'll need to sort out funding from somewhere.  They aren't entitled to Short money, they should be able to use parliamentary expenses to pay constituency staff but that's about it.

i suspect that they'll probably get a one or more large "start-up" donations from wealthy individuals.  JK Rowling would seem to fit the bill.

 

 

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Not that it matters
  •  
 
 
 

Chris Leslie effectively admitted TIG will NOT back Labour in a vote of no confidence. "We don't believe right now, at this moment of national crisis, a general election would be right for the country."

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Rumours of more resignations tomorrow mainly from the Labour side

Which brings me back to this PIAK

On 1/12/2019 at 11:47 PM, Ally Bongo said:

What we are witnessing is the death of the two main political parties because of their desire for power (signposts and weathercocks)

It has been happening slowly over time but sooner or later the straw will break the camel's back

By trying to appeal to both leavers and remainers in their desperation for votes we have the situation we are in now

Neither has the balls to offer the real and only alternatives which is leave without a deal or remain

Any "deal" is not anywhere as good as being in the EU which makes May's position a farce

Unless any of the two of them faces up to reality sharpish and becomes honest then the UK is going to collapse quite quickly

A second referendum regardless of the outcome is going to be disastrous

Nobody knows what leaving the EU with no deal is going to be like but it is most likely to be us that will suffer a long time 

Independence for Scotland wont be damaged if there is a second referendum and remain wins slightly or leave wins again because of the fall out from either result

 

On 1/13/2019 at 12:16 AM, ParisInAKilt said:

The UK will collapse?

 

On 1/13/2019 at 12:27 AM, Ally Bongo said:

The UK as we know it

There will be a rise of all sorts of shite in England with a second referendum and if remain wins there will be repercussions on the streets 

If leave wins again the extreme right will be even more emboldened and we will leave the EU and all it's agencies with a high possibility of economic chaos leading again to repercussions on the streets

Both the main establishment parties will implode leading to the rise of something else IMO

 

 

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They incorporated as a private a company rather than a political party to avoid disclosing their funding.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/19/independent-group-criticised-for-not-registering-as-political-party

Probably Soros money.

I read that Blair has a big fund ready to go to launch a "Let's rip off the Labour brand once more to sell hideous rightwing neocon bullshit" party.  This could be the tip of that emerging wedge.

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15 minutes ago, thplinth said:

They incorporated as a private a company rather than a political party to avoid disclosing their funding.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/19/independent-group-criticised-for-not-registering-as-political-party

Probably Soros money.

I read that Blair has a big fund ready to go to launch a "Let's rip off the Labour brand once more to sell hideous rightwing neocon bullshit" party.  This could be the tip of that emerging wedge.

Probably - as soon as this Lizard raises it's head from obscurity alarm bells should start ringing

I was going to question how the three Tories would react however they are mainly Cameron's women and he was another Blair and not a true Tory

 

 

Edited by Ally Bongo
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On 2/20/2019 at 10:21 AM, Ally Bongo said:

There are people out there who really do hate Jews 

If anti antisemitism does not apply to them then what does ?

Yes it is a problem, and for avoidance of doubt, not to be swept under the carpet. I heard Barry Gardner give an apology to the Jewish community, yesterday, on behalf of the Labour party, and perhaps that is the kind of thing Corbyn could have done more of, if he was a more effective leader and person-manager, to be more reassuring. There is a danger of the impression he - or any of us - could be putting protection of an ideology or the abstract principle of free speech ahead of the human side of caring for abused colleagues. The problem of antisemitism is a real problem.  But there is a danger that by mixing up antisemitism with anti-Zionism and the doings of the state of Israel - as if criticising Israel is a hate crime - there is a dilution and diversion of the problem of genuine antiseminism.    

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7 minutes ago, exile said:

Yes it is a problem, and for avoidance of doubt, not to be swept under the carpet. I heard Barry Gardner give an apology to the Jewish community, yesterday, on behalf of the Labour party, and perhaps that is the kind of thing Corbyn could have done more of, if he was a more effective leader and person-manager, to be more reassuring. There is a danger of the impression he - or any of us - could be putting protection of an ideology or the abstract principle of free speech ahead of the human side of caring for abused colleagues. The problem of antisemitism is a real problem.  But there is a danger that by mixing up antisemitism with anti-Zionism and the doings of the state of Israel - as if criticising Israel is a hate crime - there is a dilution and diversion of the problem of genuine antiseminism.    

You have to wonder then why Barry Gardiner is giving apologies

On 2/20/2019 at 11:19 AM, Parklife said:

No one is arguing that, champ. Folk are merely pointing out that there's no real anti-semitism problem in the Labour Party. 

 

Personally i have not seen any Labour anti semitism but then again i do not go through the Labour accounts on Twitter and to a certain extent we are on the outside of English grassroots politics 

However if the actions of those activists bussed in from England to Scotland is anything to go by ............

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As far as I can tell this has been pretty unreported elsewhere, but over 200 prominent Jewish Labour Party members & supporters signed a letter in the Guardian today.

You report (19 February) that a number of implacably anti-Corbyn MPs have left the Labour party alleging a failed “approach to dealing with antisemitism”, with Luciana Berger criticising Labour for becoming “sickeningly institutionally racist”.

We are Jewish members and supporters of the Labour party concerned about the current rise of reactionary ideologies, including antisemitism, in Britain and elsewhere across Europe.

We note the worrying growth of populist rightwing parties, encouraging racism, Islamophobia and antisemitism. In Britain the far right is whipping up these prejudices, a threat that requires a resolute and energetic response. But instead we have seen a disproportionate focus on antisemitism on the left, which is abhorrent but relatively rare.

We believe that the Labour party under the progressive leadership of Jeremy Corbyn is a crucial ally in the fight against bigotry and reaction. His lifetime record of campaigning for equality and human rights, including consistent support for initiatives against antisemitism, is formidable. His involvement strengthens this struggle.

Labour governments introduced both the anti-racist and human rights legislation of the 20th century and the 2010 Equalities Act. A Labour government led by Jeremy Corbyn will be a powerful force to fight against racism, Islamophobia and antisemitism.

It is in this context that we welcome the Labour party’s endorsement of freedom of expression on Israel and on the rights of Palestinians. Labour is correct to recognise that while prejudice against Jewish people is deplorable, criticism of Israel’s government and policies can and must be made.

We urge all who wish to see an end to bigotry and racism, and who seek a more just society, to give their support to the Labour party.

It makes you wonder who is really behind the (probably not very) Independent Group.

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