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6 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

I agree. The result of the next one will decide things for for at least another 20+ years. We are 8 years past the last one , if we fail again there will be no justification for another one. The UK Government could dismantle Scotland piece by piece and we will just have to suck it up because for a second time in 10 years we will have chosen to hang onto the UK’s apron strings. 

In the short term the SNP are THE only party that can get us independence. I am not saying other pro independence parties shouldn’t be considered but the SNP are the only party big enough to be noticed or taken seriously.  

IMO we need to throw the kitchen sink at it if we get the chance of a vote in the next couple of years . 

That's just falling in line with Westminster propaganda. If the People of Scotland decide that they want to have a referendum every 5 years (or whatever) then that is what should happen. This is the whole point of independence. When folk like you fall in line with this, it just helps to strengthen Westminster's already tight grip on us rebellious Scots. The vote 8 years ago shouldn't tie the hands of the People of Scotland forever. 

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3 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

That's just falling in line with Westminster propaganda. If the People of Scotland decide that they want to have a referendum every 5 years (or whatever) then that is what should happen. This is the whole point of independence. When folk like you fall in line with this, it just helps to strengthen Westminster's already tight grip on us rebellious Scots. The vote 8 years ago shouldn't tie the hands of the People of Scotland forever. 

No it shouldn’t tie us forever but there surely is a point where you need to let a period of time pass if there is no significant change in appetite . And what happens if we win independence  and after 5 years , unionists are saying they  they want back in the UK . Do we have another referendum?  
Less is more IMO. I absolutely believe a second  referendum should go ahead as circumstances have changed massively since the last one. But if we failed and the SNP put another referendum in their manifesto in 3 /5/8 years time and they got into power as everyone who wants independence votes for them, do you really think another referendum is justified? I think you just piss people off. 

I want independence to work and there to be no dubiety about it whatsoever. I dont want it to turn into a game of ‘ best of 3’. Oh no , ‘ best of 5’  etc.

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21 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

And what happens if we win independence  and after 5 years , unionists are saying they  they want back in the UK . Do we have another referendum?

That's an interesting question.

That said, I can't think of any examples of a country, after it's gained it's independence from a larger neighbour,  changes it mind and goes back? (There must be some I guess?)

 

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17 minutes ago, mcguffin said:

That's an interesting question.

That said, I can't think of any examples of a country, after it's gained it's independence from a larger neighbour,  changes it mind and goes back? (There must be some I guess?)

 

I would hope this isn’t the case but lets be honest, in the first few years the unionist media will be throwing as much dirt as it can get at a new SG to try and undermine it. If you think they are bad now just wait till after independence. Any setbacks will be blown up into full scale national disasters. So I think there is a risk there. Its one reason I did not want another Brexit vote. As much as I am pro EU  it could have set a precedent and for me Scottish Independence , and the result being honoured, is more important than being in the EU. 

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16 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

I would hope this isn’t the case but lets be honest, in the first few years the unionist media will be throwing as much dirt as it can get at a new SG to try and undermine it. If you think they are bad now just wait till after independence. Any setbacks will be blown up into full scale national disasters. So I think there is a risk there. Its one reason I did not want another Brexit vote. As much as I am pro EU  it could have set a precedent and for me Scottish Independence , and the result being honoured, is more important than being in the EU. 

I see where you're coming from. When you put it like that I agree with you 100%.
I hadn't really thought through the unionist-media-post-independence aspect. (They were angry enough after 'No' winning the 2014 election, so I guess they'll be apoplectic after losing?)

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34 minutes ago, mcguffin said:

I see where you're coming from. When you put it like that I agree with you 100%.
I hadn't really thought through the unionist-media-post-independence aspect. (They were angry enough after 'No' winning the 2014 election, so I guess they'll be apoplectic after losing?)

Without a doubt there would be a vocal minority that would make a lot of noise and throw spanners in the works of any attempt at progress. But IMO its the people who ‘took a punt’ that would be most vulnerable to media twisting of facts .
Tbh it would be great just to be in the position of actually having  that potential problem , but I think its something people need to be aware of . Convincing people that independence is the right decision  wouldn’t simply end in the event of a Yes vote . 

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2 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

No it shouldn’t tie us forever but there surely is a point where you need to let a period of time pass if there is no significant change in appetite . And what happens if we win independence  and after 5 years , unionists are saying they  they want back in the UK . Do we have another referendum?  
Less is more IMO. I absolutely believe a second  referendum should go ahead as circumstances have changed massively since the last one. But if we failed and the SNP put another referendum in their manifesto in 3 /5/8 years time and they got into power as everyone who wants independence votes for them, do you really think another referendum is justified? I think you just piss people off. 

I want independence to work and there to be no dubiety about it whatsoever. I dont want it to turn into a game of ‘ best of 3’. Oh no , ‘ best of 5’  etc.

If that's what the People of Scotland vote for then that is what should happen. But the rUK would also have a say. If Westminster made it clear they don't want us back then it would be a waste of a referendum. And, if it ever went to a referendum downs south I'm fairly sure the Brexit loving little Englanders would swiftly tell us to fuk off. 

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11 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

If that's what the People of Scotland vote for then that is what should happen. But the rUK would also have a say. If Westminster made it clear they don't want us back then it would be a waste of a referendum. And, if it ever went to a referendum downs south I'm fairly sure the Brexit loving little Englanders would swiftly tell us to fuk off. 

I personally think if we make the decision to go then then that is it. No going back. I assume if we went back then that is it for good. Or do we have another referendum 5 years after that if we are no happy again? 

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31 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

I personally think if we make the decision to go then then that is it. No going back. I assume if we went back then that is it for good. Or do we have another referendum 5 years after that if we are no happy again? 

If we become independent we won't go back. 

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If Scotland votes for independence, then by definition the majority of the electorate will be pro indy. It puts the ball in the court of the media. Do they shift with the electorate and accept the status quo, and run with the majority where their bread will be buttered? Especially as the new generation is more pro indy.

There will always be a hardcore of unionists, but we saw with Brexit, that a lot of remainers accepted the result, and even parties staunchly Remainer turned pro Brexit or 'let's make it work'.

But it's harder to say when the strings are being pulled from outside Scotland. Do they dig in and try to undermine faith in the new state, or do they wash their hands  of Scotland and sell up? That's to say, if Scotland is already 'lost', why keep ploughing cash into loss-leading propaganda sheets? Maybe they'd cut their losses?

Presumably the BBC would have to be split up, assets redistributed/repatriated, and whatever public service broadcaster in its place would presumably behave, at least, like the BBC post Brexit, accepting independence is the new status quo, and it's part of their job to serve the new state and 'make it work'. 

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1 hour ago, exile said:

Presumably the BBC would have to be split up, assets redistributed/repatriated, and whatever public service broadcaster in its place would presumably behave, at least, like the BBC post Brexit, accepting independence is the new status quo, and it's part of their job to serve the new state and 'make it work'. 

This is why the BBC as an institution can never be absolutely impartial where independence is concerned as it is existential for them.

That doesn’t mean that every report or every journalist is fundamentally biased but that the BBC as an organisation is hugely vested in a No vote. 

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9 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

I agree. The result of the next one will decide things for for at least another 20+ years. We are 8 years past the last one , if we fail again there will be no justification for another one. The UK Government could dismantle Scotland piece by piece and we will just have to suck it up because for a second time in 10 years we will have chosen to hang onto the UK’s apron strings. 

In the short term the SNP are THE only party that can get us independence. I am not saying other pro independence parties shouldn’t be considered but the SNP are the only party big enough to be noticed or taken seriously.  

IMO we need to throw the kitchen sink at it if we get the chance of a vote in the next couple of years . 

That's pretty much 100% for me. We can't lose this next one as we won't get a chance for a very long time, and probably deservedly so if we shite it again.

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7 hours ago, Orraloon said:

If we become independent we won't go back. 

I fully agree. 

Granted hard core unionists will dig their heels in and make mischief but that will not endear themselves to the majority. It will only show themselves to beca distasteful sect that Scots do not want to be associated with.

 

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6 hours ago, exile said:

 

Presumably the BBC would have to be split up, assets redistributed/repatriated, and whatever public service broadcaster in its place would presumably behave, at least, like the BBC post Brexit, accepting independence is the new status quo, and it's part of their job to serve the new state and 'make it work'. 

The BBC would remain and perhaps become compartmentalised. Scottish license fee money would go towards Scottish news and content. However, if a Scottish government axed the license fee that would signal the end of the BBC in Scotland. No doubt you would still have full access to the BBC via Freeview/Sky box/Virgin TV box and such-like.

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6 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

The BBC would remain and perhaps become compartmentalised. Scottish license fee money would go towards Scottish news and content. However, if a Scottish government axed the license fee that would signal the end of the BBC in Scotland. No doubt you would still have full access to the BBC via Freeview/Sky box/Virgin TV box and such-like.

Aye, remember the absolute whopper of going indy would mean Scots wouldn't be able to watch Eastenders 🤣🤣🤣🤣

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