Indy Ref 2 - Page 748 - Anything Goes - Other topics not covered elsewhere - Tartan Army Message Board Jump to content

Recommended Posts

At the end of the day the only ones who are going to give us independence is - ourselves. When we next get a chance to vote we need it to be YES. We need to be concentrating hard on our case for independence and prepare to play dirty unlike in 2014. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

I'd imagine Biden's views on Scottish Independence are a million miles away from Obama's

Why? He was vice president to Obama. The US position is to have "unity" in Europe to keep the Russian monster at bay. Trident is an American nuclear weapons system, the very last thing they want is for the UK to breakup and potential have those nukes moved to another location.

It makes no sense that Biden would be a supporter of Scottish independence, even if he has Irish heritage. The US is absolutely not an ally to Scottish independence, they are neutral at the very best.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Freeedom said:

Why? He was vice president to Obama. The US position is to have "unity" in Europe to keep the Russian monster at bay. Trident is an American nuclear weapons system, the very last thing they want is for the UK to breakup and potential have those nukes moved to another location.

It makes no sense that Biden would be a supporter of Scottish independence, even if he has Irish heritage. The US is absolutely not an ally to Scottish independence, they are neutral at the very best.

Yes I have to agree with this. The US will only support something that benefits them and an independent Scotland does not. Status Quo for them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Freeedom said:

I'm pretty confident given what Barrack Obama said about Scottish independence that Nancy Pelosi (if she has the cognitive capacity) does not support the breakup of the United Kingdom, it's not in the US interests for that to happen.

Secondly, it doesn't give you pause for thought that she is a corrupt, neoliberal out of touch hack of a politician?

All countries act in their best interests.  

That said, Obama has subsequently admitted that he made those statements as a favour to Cameron.  Given the relationship between the current administrations in Washington and London, I don’t expect a repeat performance. similarly, I don’t expect Joe Biden to come out with a kilt on shouting Freedom before any vote.  Afterwards is when having friends in power in Washington will help.  The key thing in the immediate aftermath of a successful vote to turn that into reality, is for international recognition to put pressure to bring the UKG to the table to start negotiations.  We’ll need friends wherever we can find them.

FWIW, I think that when Sturgeon talks about how she admires someone like Pelosi, Hillary Clinton, Merkel, etc., it’s less about the detail of their politics but more that they’re women who have risen to the top, and I think that gets reciprocated.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

The people of Northern Ireland do not want that. I think the general feeling is they want no checks on the border with Ireland.


yeah, that maybe the case but the Uk voted to have border checks with the eu so there we go, and south Ireland are part of the eu.  Scotland didn’t vote for brexit but we have border checks with the eu.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

OMFG

Good Friday agreement

Look it up


I would say it’s going to be very hard to retain the good Friday agreement post brexit - I can’t see how it is possible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, Malcolm said:


yeah, that maybe the case but the Uk voted to have border checks with the eu so there we go, and south Ireland are part of the eu.  Scotland didn’t vote for brexit but we have border checks with the eu.

South Ireland ? No such country.

Does it really upset you to say Republic of Ireland that much ?

25 minutes ago, Malcolm said:


I would say it’s going to be very hard to retain the good Friday agreement post brexit - I can’t see how it is possible.

Still raging at the Irish for having the guts to stand up to your empire back in the day are you ? 😄

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, aaid said:

All countries act in their best interests.  

That said, Obama has subsequently admitted that he made those statements as a favour to Cameron.  Given the relationship between the current administrations in Washington and London, I don’t expect a repeat performance. similarly, I don’t expect Joe Biden to come out with a kilt on shouting Freedom before any vote.  Afterwards is when having friends in power in Washington will help.  The key thing in the immediate aftermath of a successful vote to turn that into reality, is for international recognition to put pressure to bring the UKG to the table to start negotiations.  We’ll need friends wherever we can find them.

FWIW, I think that when Sturgeon talks about how she admires someone like Pelosi, Hillary Clinton, Merkel, etc., it’s less about the detail of their politics but more that they’re women who have risen to the top, and I think that gets reciprocated.  

I think it would be naive to say that the US would be a friend to us, they are only friendly when we are compliant to their interests. Scottish independence is definitely not in their interests and they would not support us in making that happen. Furthermore, they would DEFINITELY not fight for us in the event of negotiation with the rUK. the US would want as much integration as possible, staying in NATO, keeping the nukes and continuing to be a compliant lapdog of the US. I don't know about you but I don't want to see an independent Scotland being dragged into imperialist US wars like Iraq again.

Secondly, I think her admiration for Clinton and Pelosi goes further than them just being women. If her admiration was based purely on their gender then she would have shown the same admiration for Margaret thatcher who was THE pioneer for women politically. The politics of Pelosi and Clinton are equally as rancid as Thatchers, but they are not as toxic politically in Scotland as Thatcher is and that's the bottom line. Sturgeon sooking up to the likes of Nancy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton is nauseating and does nothing for us.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said:

South Ireland ? No such country.

 

The fact it goes further north than Northern Ireland does indeed make that a dreadful misnomer. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said:

South Ireland ? No such country.

Does it really upset you to say Republic of Ireland that much ?

Still raging at the Irish for having the guts to stand up to your empire back in the day are you ? 😄


ROI is fine with me - I was differentiating between north and south.  Really don’t care what Ireland do, I feel as close to the French or Germans as I do to the Irish.

Point being here that the GFA doesn’t work anymore as borders are required between north and south.  

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Freeedom said:

I think it would be naive to say that the US would be a friend to us, they are only friendly when we are compliant to their interests. Scottish independence is definitely not in their interests and they would not support us in making that happen. Furthermore, they would DEFINITELY not fight for us in the event of negotiation with the rUK. the US would want as much integration as possible, staying in NATO, keeping the nukes and continuing to be a compliant lapdog of the US. I don't know about you but I don't want to see an independent Scotland being dragged into imperialist US wars like Iraq again.

Secondly, I think her admiration for Clinton and Pelosi goes further than them just being women. If her admiration was based purely on their gender then she would have shown the same admiration for Margaret thatcher who was THE pioneer for women politically. The politics of Pelosi and Clinton are equally as rancid as Thatchers, but they are not as toxic politically in Scotland as Thatcher is and that's the bottom line. Sturgeon sooking up to the likes of Nancy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton is nauseating and does nothing for us.

 

The issue with Thatcher - despite her, or more accurately her party now - is that they’re political rivals, however there’s also the fact that rather than helping other women to advance, Thatcher is generally considered to be someone who pulled the ladder up after her.

An independent Scotland will be a member of NATO, you might not like that but that’s certainly SNP policy and I suspect would be the view of the majority of the electorate.  Trident is a different issue - I am personally opposed - but I wouldn’t like to predict what might happen in any future negotiations.  It’s the only thing that I could see splitting those in favour of independence in the same way as the Brexit negotiations split the Brexiteers.  It could be our NI protocol.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

56 minutes ago, Malcolm said:


yeah, that maybe the case but the Uk voted to have border checks with the eu so there we go, and south Ireland are part of the eu.  Scotland didn’t vote for brexit but we have border checks with the eu.

Err, they didn’t vote for border checks, they were told there would be no border.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, aaid said:

Err, they didn’t vote for border checks, they were told there would be no border.


Oh yeah, you are right…. I forgot that’s what they were told at the time. Bit like the NHS bus all that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Politicians are both pragmatic, and romantic when they want to be. Biden's Irish affinity places him in a position where he could end up supporting, or not standing in the way of, reunification of Ireland. As such he could be supporting, or not standing in the way of, a break up of part of the UK. While in principle the USA might support the integrity of the UK, they are hardly going to stand in the way in the event of a democratic mandate for N Ireland to leave the UK, and so not necessarily going to stand in the way of Scotland either. Certainly it's hard to imagine Biden being Johnson's puppet in the way Obama was Cameron's.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/17/2022 at 12:28 PM, Freeedom said:

... If her admiration was based purely on their gender then she would have shown the same admiration for Margaret thatcher who was THE pioneer for women politically...

 

Sorry, but I need to nit pick as you seem to have forgotten Golda Meir and Indira Gandhi both of whom led their countries from the 60s.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Squirrelhumper said:

The trains aren't exactly getting off to a smooth start after being nationalised. Thankfully I can walk home after the Ukraine game.

The problems are due to drivers refusing, yet again , to do overtime as they are unhappy at their pay rise offer. Tbh I am getting pretty fed up of train drivers  causing chaos every year, any sympathy I had is long gone , to my knowledge they are not in a badly paid job.

I am happy to be educated more on the problems though, perhaps @Caledonian Craigcan expand as I believe he works on the trains. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

The problems are due to drivers refusing, yet again , to do overtime as they are unhappy at their pay rise offer. Tbh I am getting pretty fed up of train drivers  causing chaos every year, any sympathy I had is long gone , to my knowledge they are not in a badly paid job.

I am happy to be educated more on the problems though, perhaps @Caledonian Craigcan expand as I believe he works on the trains. 

Not a driver though but there is more to it than just pay rise. You see this is an issue that goes back many, many years. The railway companies have long since been under-staffed but they were comfortable in the knowledge that all timetabled train journeys shifts could be covered as drivers or other crew would gobble up overtime. However, now that there is an overtime ban then all timetabled trains could not be covered. I do not know of full issues with the drivers' dispute but believe it has something to do with pay cuts to overtime worked on set days.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

It's silly that trains are dependant on people doing overtime though.

They should be staffed for people on rotas over 7 days. So employ more drivers and work out their weekly rotas with a 5 days working week.

Edited by fringo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, fringo said:

It's silly that trains are dependant on people doing overtime though.

They should be staffed for people on rotas over 7 days. So employ more drivers and work out their weekly rotas with a 5 days working week.

Agreed. That is a decision/risk/chance taken by TOC's though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Not a driver though but there is more to it than just pay rise. You see this is an issue that goes back many, many years. The railway companies have long since been under-staffed but they were comfortable in the knowledge that all timetabled train journeys shifts could be covered as drivers or other crew would gobble up overtime. However, now that there is an overtime ban then all timetabled trains could not be covered. I do not know of full issues with the drivers' dispute but believe it has something to do with pay cuts to overtime worked on set days.

Going on for years you say, this SNP government have had seven weeks to sort out Nat Rail, tell that to the good people of Dunbar.

Apparently a load of new drivers going through training - which had to be suspended because of Covid.  How long do you think it will be until the train drivers will be complaining about a lack of overtime and going on strike because of that. 

Still, good to see the Tories so supportive of the right workers to withdraw their labour.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, aaid said:

Going on for years you say, this SNP government have had seven weeks to sort out Nat Rail, tell that to the good people of Dunbar.

Apparently a load of new drivers going through training - which had to be suspended because of Covid.  How long do you think it will be until the train drivers will be complaining about a lack of overtime and going on strike because of that. 

Still, good to see the Tories so supportive of the right workers to withdraw their labour.

Without a doubt. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...