Indy Ref 2

[phart]

The fact is folk who have gotten themselves skilled in, say nursing , teaching, logistics etc are being put into positions where depending on area they can't afford to live. They're being told "pasta is cheap" when they complain about trying to feed their families etc.

There is enough resources for everyone, it can even be asymmetrically distributed somewhat and there is still enough.

If folk are struggling in these conditions then it is clear there are systemic issues that need to be addressed regardless of empty rhetoric and asinine dogma.

 

[Ally Bongo]

The Bank of England have reported that Brexit is costing the UK £444 million A WEEK

How's that for incompetence Malcolm ?

[Malcolm]

1 hour ago, Ally Bongo said:

The Bank of England have reported that Brexit is costing the UK £444 million A WEEK

How's that for incompetence Malcolm ?

highly incompetent of the British public to vote for this.  This just goes to show you that the average Brit is not particularly bright or understands the value of local trading partner.  You cant legislate for public stupidity unless you don’t let thickies vote and then you are in an entirely different world.

in case you are implying I did, I did not vote to leave the EU.

[vanderark14]

7 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

highly incompetent of the British public to vote for this.  This just goes to show you that the average Brit is not particularly bright or understands the value of local trading partner.  You cant legislate for public stupidity unless you don’t let thickies vote and then you are in an entirely different world.

in case you are implying I did, I did not vote to leave the EU.

You're a very strange person. I'm not sure how you can blame thick people, I blame the cunts who played on that stupidity and lied constantly to get what they wanted. 

[Ally Bongo]

6 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

highly incompetent of the British public to vote for this.  This just goes to show you that the average Brit is not particularly bright or understands the value of local trading partner.  You cant legislate for public stupidity unless you don’t let thickies vote and then you are in an entirely different world.

in case you are implying I did, I did not vote to leave the EU.

I was implying that Unionists can be very selective when it comes to criticising SNP incompetence

You have a Westminster establishment that implemented Brexit knowing full well what the consequences would be

 

 

[Malcolm]

2 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

I was implying that Unionists can be very selective when it comes to criticising SNP incompetence

You have a Westminster establishment that implemented Brexit knowing full well what the consequences would be

 

 

some of the Westminster establishment pursued an ideology knowing the potential impact and sold it to the public.  The public bought it.  People who are now suffering from it voted for it.  “This is not the brexit that i voted for”, well you should have listened to the more factual arguments and understood the potential impact.

 

 

 

[Malcolm]

8 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

You're a very strange person. I'm not sure how you can blame thick people, I blame the cunts who played on that stupidity and lied constantly to get what they wanted. 

“the public get what the public want”….  Its incumbent on every individual to think through the consequences of their vote.  The British public are actually quite racist and this ended up being a vote about migrants rather than the economic consequences of removing our biggest market to trade in.

[vanderark14]

1 minute ago, Malcolm said:

“the public get what the public want”….  Its incumbent on every individual to think through the consequences of their vote.  The British public are actually quite racist and this ended up being a vote about migrants rather than the economic consequences of removing our biggest market to trade in.

If the British public are racist and they get what they want as you say, what exactly did they get? 

Edited May 16 by vanderark14

[Malcolm]

30 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

If the British public are racist and they get what they want as you say, what exactly did they get? 

I was making too different points… the public voted for this mess.  The reason they voted for it was all about “migrants stealing our jobs” when they should have been worrying about out ability to export, costs of importing and a supply of labour to stop our economy shrinking.

the coincidence that covid happened just after suits the narrative that it was covid that caused this and not brexit

[aaid]

Bitter Together are raging.  
 

 

[vanderark14]

1 hour ago, Malcolm said:

I was making too different points… the public voted for this mess.  The reason they voted for it was all about “migrants stealing our jobs” when they should have been worrying about out ability to export, costs of importing and a supply of labour to stop our economy shrinking.

the coincidence that covid happened just after suits the narrative that it was covid that caused this and not brexit

So they were lied to like I said.

[Malcolm]

11 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

So they were lied to like I said.

Caveat emptor.  They chose to buy in to the NHS bus, the migrants not coming and stealing our jobs.  The individual has the responsibility to determine what is lies.   Boris lies out his teeth - if there was a general election tomorrow he may well get back in.

 

[Caledonian Craig]

Unionists are blinded by their loyalty to a corrupt regime.

Just look at how they are trying to influence Northern Ireland's path spoiling for a fight with the EU. Remarkable when you consider that the people of Northern Ireland narrowly voted against Brexit. So you have the DUP zealots getting support from BoJo the Clown - a party that is no longer in control at Stormont. WTF happened to democracy? Well it just does not exist within this decrepit union.

Edited May 17 by Caledonian Craig

[Caledonian Craig]

The luck of unionism is incredible.

The UK leaving the EU despite what Scotland voted for looked like being a big boost for independence but just as the full affect of Brexit was to be felt along, like a gift from the gods, came COVID to mask the damage of Brexit. Now shortages in food products etc are being blamed on shortage of drivers because of COVID etc. COVID has totally masked the true impact to Brexit. And as COVID begins to fade from prominence a new distraction comes along - Russia invades Ukraine.

[Malcolm]

1 minute ago, Caledonian Craig said:

The luck of unionism is incredible.

The UK leaving the EU despite what Scotland voted for looked like being a big boost for independence but just as the full affect of Brexit was to be felt along, like a gift from the gods, came COVID to mask the damage of Brexit. Now shortages in food products etc are being blamed on shortage of drivers because of COVID etc. COVID has totally masked the true impact to Brexit. And as COVID begins to fade from prominence a new distraction comes along - Russia invades Ukraine.

yeah, the impact of Brexit has been masked and blamed on other things.  This hasn’t anything to do with unionism though.  Brexit and Scottish independence are two entirely different conversations.

[Malcolm]

11 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Unionists are blinded by their loyalty to a corrupt regime.

Just look at how they are trying to influence Northern Ireland's path spoiling for a fight with the EU. Remarkable when you consider that the people of Northern Ireland narrowly voted against Brexit. So you have the DUP zealots getting support from BoJo the Clown - a party that is no longer in control at Stormont. WTF happened to democracy? Well it just does not exist within this decrepit union.

this could be easily resolved by putting border checks in between north and south Ireland.  Then trade can happen freely within the United Kingdom without impact on the EU.

[Caledonian Craig]

11 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

this could be easily resolved by putting border checks in between north and south Ireland.  Then trade can happen freely within the United Kingdom without impact on the EU.

The people of Northern Ireland do not want that. I think the general feeling is they want no checks on the border with Ireland.

[aaid]

16 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Unionists are blinded by their loyalty to a corrupt regime.

Just look at how they are trying to influence Northern Ireland's path spoiling for a fight with the EU. Remarkable when you consider that the people of Northern Ireland narrowly voted against Brexit. So you have the DUP zealots getting support from BoJo the Clown - a party that is no longer in control at Stormont. WTF happened to democracy? Well it just does not exist within this decrepit union.

That take on NI Unionism is pretty much way off the mark.  Unionists in NI don’t trust the UKG one inch and that’s not just the current incumbents, for pretty much the last 150 years or so since - initially- Home Rule for Ireland started being touted Unionists have been distrustful of the UK government and parliament, that’s their default position.  The DUP haven’t lost control in Stormont, they never had control in the first place.  Post the Good Friday agreement, the law states that there has to be a Unionist/Nationalist coalition.  For the past 20 years or so, Sinn Fein has had as much power in Stormont as the DUP has.

The motivations for NI Unionists are very different from Scottish Unionists and are rooted in history and reflective of how the different constitutional arrangements came into place.  This is a very simplistic definition of a complex mindset but the main motivation for Unionists in NI has been about security first and foremost, for their Scottish counterparts it’s is about the economy.  That’s why the DUP and other hardliners have no problem with burning the house down economically if they have to.  It would be a mistake to try and conflate the two.  

[Caledonian Craig]

1 minute ago, aaid said:

That take on NI Unionism is pretty much way off the mark.  Unionists in NI don’t trust the UKG one inch and that’s not just the current incumbents, for pretty much the last 150 years or so since - initially- Home Rule for Ireland started being touted Unionists have been distrustful of the UK government and parliament, that’s their default position.  The DUP haven’t lost control in Stormont, they never had control in the first place.  Post the Good Friday agreement, the law states that there has to be a Unionist/Nationalist coalition.  For the past 20 years or so, Sinn Fein has had as much power in Stormont as the DUP has.

The motivations for NI Unionists are very different from Scottish Unionists and are rooted in history and reflective of how the different constitutional arrangements came into place.  This is a very simplistic definition of a complex mindset but the main motivation for Unionists in NI has been about security first and foremost, for their Scottish counterparts it’s is about the economy.  That’s why the DUP and other hardliners have no problem with burning the house down economically if they have to.  It would be a mistake to try and conflate the two.  

Cheers for clearing that up. 

[Ally Bongo]

13 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

this could be easily resolved by putting border checks in between north and south Ireland.  Then trade can happen freely within the United Kingdom without impact on the EU.

OMFG

Good Friday agreement

Look it up

[Freeedom]

12 hours ago, aaid said:

Bitter Together are raging.  
 

 

What's your opinion of Nancy Pelosi?

[aaid]

3 minutes ago, Freeedom said:

What's your opinion of Nancy Pelosi?

Third most important politician in the most important country in the world so someone it’d be good to have on your side. 

[Freeedom]

3 minutes ago, aaid said:

Third most important politician in the most important country in the world so someone it’d be good to have on your side. 

I'm pretty confident given what Barrack Obama said about Scottish independence that Nancy Pelosi (if she has the cognitive capacity) does not support the breakup of the United Kingdom, it's not in the US interests for that to happen.

Secondly, it doesn't give you pause for thought that she is a corrupt, neoliberal out of touch hack of a politician?

[Ally Bongo]

1 minute ago, Freeedom said:

I'm pretty confident given what Barrack Obama said about Scottish independence that Nancy Pelosi (if she has the cognitive capacity) does not support the breakup of the United Kingdom, it's not in the US interests for that to happen.
 

I'd imagine Biden's views on Scottish Independence are a million miles away from Obama's

[aaid]

11 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

OMFG

Good Friday agreement

Look it up

Which international agreement do you want to breach, the one signed in 1998 or the one signed in 2020?

It was obvious in 2016 that anything other than a soft-Brexit and retained membership of SM/CU would cause problems for the GFA.  The reason for that was that the GFS was at its heart a compromise which allowed someone who lives in NI and who considered themselves as Irish to be able to live their day to day lives in as much the same way that someone who considered themselves British.  The apparatus that underpinned that was the EU, specifically freedom of movement guaranteed all those rights in law on both sides of the border at that point the border came down.

I can recall trying to explain that to people in England at the time and being met with either blank looks or it all being hand waved away.

I see that Boris Johnson finally admitted the truth yesterday in an interview with Channel 4, that he signed the agreement because he thought that there would be a “don’t ask, don’t tell” approach from the EU and everyone would live with the smuggling.