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6 hours ago, Toepoke said:

If a particular government's response to a global pandemic puts voters off the idea of self governance then I suspect they weren't that bothered about having it in the first place. 

 

Absolutely. Hits the nail right on the head.

Just as those who voted no in 2014 because they didn't like Salmond or in whenever IndyRef2 takes places vote no because they don't like Sturgeon. Independence transcends immaterial guff such as trans-gender or who leads the independence movement or pandemic handling because being part of the UK has not made us immune from the pandemic.

If you want independence for Scotland you will vote for it - no conditions.

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7 hours ago, Toepoke said:

If a particular government's response to a global pandemic puts voters off the idea of self governance then I suspect they weren't that bothered about having it in the first place. 

 

Pretty much so.  If folk let a day at the football or a night out in a club change their mind it may be too late for regrets when normal service is resumed and they are shafted all over again by Boris to ease the deficit, whilst his mates have be raking in millions during the pandemic. 

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7 hours ago, Toepoke said:

If a particular government's response to a global pandemic puts voters off the idea of self governance then I suspect they weren't that bothered about having it in the first place. 

 

A bit patronising no? Each and every single voter have their own reasons for voting a Certain way, IMO opinion sturgeon is doing irreparable damage to different sections of the voting public, just my opinion

 

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1 hour ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Absolutely. Hits the nail right on the head.

Just as those who voted no in 2014 because they didn't like Salmond or in whenever IndyRef2 takes places vote no because they don't like Sturgeon. Independence transcends immaterial guff such as trans-gender or who leads the independence movement or pandemic handling because being part of the UK has not made us immune from the pandemic.

If you want independence for Scotland you will vote for it - no conditions.

Its not that straight forward and the voting public are fickle as feck, i wish it were as straightforward as that but sturgeon at the helm of an indy scotland is putting the shitters up many many life long independence supporters

 

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1 hour ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Its not that straight forward and the voting public are fickle as feck, i wish it were as straightforward as that but sturgeon at the helm of an indy scotland is putting the shitters up many many life long independence supporters

 

I'm starting to see what your on about HL. I'm back in the North East, on the on day I was allowed out, the resentment towards her from people who voted yes is mental 

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Sturgeon won't be around forever.  I think her days are already numbered.  What we need is a charismatic leader of the indy movement who will appeal to a broad spectrum of society.  I'm not sure who that would be, but it won't be Salmond now as he has been tainted, unfairly in my opinion.  Sturgeon for some reason seems to be obsessed with gender politics and other non-essential stuff.  She doesn't have the qualities needed to achieve independence, or at least if she has, she's keeping them well hidden.  Her judgement on some issues has been appalling, for example the Stop Brexit election campaign, doomed because Scotland was outnumbered electorally.  She should have been pushing indy.

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We've already spent to much time pishing about, Brexit should have been the straw that broke the camel's back, we need to take independence not wait for the british state to graciously hand it to us. There's definitely an edge that's gone, I'm concerned that some are becoming just a bit too comfortable in their wee seats at the parliament in England, I'm concerned that we are becoming a comfortable part of the british establishment. 

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3 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

A bit patronising no? Each and every single voter have their own reasons for voting a Certain way, IMO opinion sturgeon is doing irreparable damage to different sections of the voting public, just my opinion

 

But then again, it’s the younger generation that does the wokey-cokey so it’s swings and roundabouts. 

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39 minutes ago, Alibi said:

Sturgeon won't be around forever.  I think her days are already numbered.  What we need is a charismatic leader of the indy movement who will appeal to a broad spectrum of society.  I'm not sure who that would be, but it won't be Salmond now as he has been tainted, unfairly in my opinion.  Sturgeon for some reason seems to be obsessed with gender politics and other non-essential stuff.  She doesn't have the qualities needed to achieve independence, or at least if she has, she's keeping them well hidden.  Her judgement on some issues has been appalling, for example the Stop Brexit election campaign, doomed because Scotland was outnumbered electorally.  She should have been pushing indy.

What do you mean by being obsessed with gender politics?

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51 minutes ago, Alibi said:

Sturgeon won't be around forever.  I think her days are already numbered.  What we need is a charismatic leader of the indy movement who will appeal to a broad spectrum of society.  I'm not sure who that would be, but it won't be Salmond now as he has been tainted, unfairly in my opinion.  Sturgeon for some reason seems to be obsessed with gender politics and other non-essential stuff.  She doesn't have the qualities needed to achieve independence, or at least if she has, she's keeping them well hidden.  Her judgement on some issues has been appalling, for example the Stop Brexit election campaign, doomed because Scotland was outnumbered electorally.  She should have been pushing indy.

If we are looking for charisma then its not going to be a political leader , politics is not exactly brimming with charismatic characters,  for obvious  reasons.
Salmond was marmite and in no way charismatic to a large section of people. Sturgeon much the same. Charisma would need to come from the wider movement. 
Salmond was a political giant and brilliant at overcoming objections, unfortunately he stepped the mark on occasions and came over as arrogant, basically undoing the good work he had already done.
We were almost there though. We now need answers to the currency and to a lesser degree the EU. Whether or not Sturgeon is around by then remains to be seen.

I don’t agree that she made a mistake at Brexit. She brought as many voters onside as she lost, probably more. And what would the UK have done if she had pushed for independence? Just said ‘naw, you had your chance. You voted to stay in the UK , yada yada’ ‘ , like they have done ever since the vote.
Just my opinion though. 

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11 hours ago, Toepoke said:

If a particular government's response to a global pandemic puts voters off the idea of self governance then I suspect they weren't that bothered about having it in the first place. 

 

This every day of the week 

 

If not seeing my mum, or going to the pub / fitba with my pals for a couple of weeks over the festive season put me off believing Scotland should be independent........I would suspect that I just really didn't want it enough

 

Edited by Redz
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57 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

 

I don’t agree that she made a mistake at Brexit. She brought as many voters onside as she lost, probably more. And what would the UK have done if she had pushed for independence? Just said ‘naw, you had your chance. You voted to stay in the UK , yada yada’ ‘ , like they have done ever since the vote.
Just my opinion though. 

Definitely more, that’s unarguable as the data clearly shows exactly that.

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11 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

I'm starting to see what your on about HL. I'm back in the North East, on the on day I was allowed out, the resentment towards her from people who voted yes is mental 

Aye its bad, really bad i would say worse than after the initial brexit backlash fro leave voters, this time though she has pissed everyone off, we still have leave voters annoyed, oil workers raging, hospitality sector fuming, and young folk going crazy about the tighter restrictions,, then you have long time snp leaving left right and centre over gender politics 

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If you don't like Sturgeon / SNP then independence is best way to get rid of them 😉

Fwiw : all political leaders have limited shelf life before voters get sick of them. Being a leader during covid is a poison chalice : because whatever action you take will piss somebody off.  Compared to Boris there is no doubt Sturgeon has done well during pandemic: but cant please everyone.

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18 hours ago, Haggis_trap said:

If you don't like Sturgeon / SNP then independence is best way to get rid of them 😉

Fwiw : all political leaders have limited shelf life before voters get sick of them. Being a leader during covid is a poison chalice : because whatever action you take will piss somebody off.  Compared to Boris there is no doubt Sturgeon has done well during pandemic: but cant please everyone.

This is far too smart a post for this thread.

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Another great reveal bites the dust then.   I guess those defamation laws are a bit of a problem though.

Good trick to feed the acolytes - "ah but if I could only be allowed to tell you the truth...".  They lap it up all the time.

The alternative scenario of course is he's got nothing new to add, so there'd be no money in writing the book and would only serve to remind people of his behaviour towards women.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/19820277.alex-salmond-drops-plans-tell-all-conspiracy-book/

 

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I have just saw this on twatter - I have no idea who any of the accusers are

 
Just seen the potential identification of women C and H and omg it all makes sense now!! Won’t share right now but happy new year indeed
Edited by Ally Bongo
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9 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

I have just saw this on twatter - I have no idea who any of the accusers are

 
Just seen the potential identification of women C and H and omg it all makes sense now!! Won’t share right now but happy new year indeed

Her Twitter timeline is an absolute binfire. 

It "all makes sense" only if you buy into the conspiracy theory that Alex Salmond was set up from the very start, that the HR policy was designed specifically to entrap him and only him, that the investigation was driven in a way to prove him guilty, that complainers and others conspired to fabricate evidence.  And the reason why it "makes sense" is that - and this was information release at the trial - all the complainers fell into one of two groups, civil servants and people in the SNP.

Given that all the incidents took place while Salmond was FM, it's probably safe to assume that they all had worked closely with him, were in regular contact or were people whose role and/or connections would bring them into close contact with the then FM.  

It should then be no real surprise that in the intervening years - particularly with the SNP in power - that some of these women's careers had advanced and they found themselves in positions of greater influence and power than they had at the time.

The whole "ah but if you knew who they were" argument is predicated on the fact that because some of the complainers *could* be in a position to potentially influence any proceedings against him, then they *must* have done so.

There's a whole load of problems with that theory though, not least the fact that the parliamentary inquiry found absolutely no evidence whatsoever of any conspiracy and remember that included Jackie Baillie, Murdo Fraser and ACH.

It's also unsurprising that the complainers were all either civil servants and SNP workers because that's who predatory men of power work, they seek to exercise that differential in power.

I don't know if Salmond genuinely believes this whole conspiracy that's he's peddling, I suspect he might - Sturgeon's evidence to the inquiry when she told him he should be focussing on the substance of the original allegations rather than the process gives an insight into his thinking at the time, but of course, if all he's got is the names of the complainers and the jobs they do/did, then if he's looking to perpetuate it then its probably a better tactic to hold out the prospect of some hidden gem of truth that "will one day see the light of day" to keep people hooked.

BTW, I say this knowing who Women C and H are - incidentally, the latter who I was able to identify from Craig Murray's blogs.

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On 12/30/2021 at 11:53 AM, vanderark14 said:

I'm starting to see what your on about HL. I'm back in the North East, on the on day I was allowed out, the resentment towards her from people who voted yes is mental 

Might have something to do with the NE rather than the wider yes movement. Funny bunch up here!

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On 12/30/2021 at 10:13 AM, hampden_loon2878 said:

A bit patronising no? Each and every single voter have their own reasons for voting a Certain way, IMO opinion sturgeon is doing irreparable damage to different sections of the voting public, just my opinion

 

😂

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  • 2 weeks later...
2 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

the media smearing of salmond continue, why are the media so interested in "yesterdays man" the only reason is because they still see him as a threat

 

Alex Salmond harassment complaints could be reopened by Scottish ministers with new procedure (msn.com)

That story is primarily an attack piece on the Scottish Government and the SNP over the original botched investigation rather than Salmond.  The person they’re trying to damage is Sturgeon.

 

 

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20 minutes ago, aaid said:

That story is primarily an attack piece on the Scottish Government and the SNP over the original botched investigation rather than Salmond.  The person they’re trying to damage is Sturgeon.

 

 

Precisely. We all know the unionist bias in the media. This is simply an attack on the independence movement. The hearing and all that was amusing to watch the unionist media get behind Salmond when they realised he could be a useful tool for them.

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