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I’m no expert in this field - see what I did there - and if I’m wrong someone can correct me.  However, I’m reading that the grade of crude oil contained in Cambo means that it’s more suitable for petrochemicals rather for fuel and so would be likely to be exported anyway, the arguments over having to import more oil for domestic purposes don’t really apply.

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30 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Independence is fucked due to a few plants/maniacs,, we will need to take a few steps back to go forward 

I have been saying the same for a while. We need to clean house. Stop voting for them. In one election cycle we could do a new labour on them. Wipe them out.

It would precipitate an internal war in the snp and see the end of these woke cocksuckers. One election cycle later you come back minus the woke nutters. It has to be both holyrood and Westminster. One cycle each.

The SNP are not independence and we need to send them that clear message. Fuck with us and we will instantly throw you away and reinvent you. It also sends a message to those behind Nicola, that it will not be that easy. They are going to have to find a lot more Nicola’s…

It was our over reliance on the SNP that made us vulnerable to what has happened. We need to totally shatter that dependence as they are rotten now. We gave them a monopoly on independence. It was a huge mistake and all I takes is for a Nicola to come along to show why giving anyone a monopoly on anything usually ends badly. How easy was it to completely derail us by just getting her in place… the stakes are huge folks, of course they are doing this stuff.

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41 minutes ago, aaid said:

I’m no expert in this field - see what I did there - and if I’m wrong someone can correct me.  However, I’m reading that the grade of crude oil contained in Cambo means that it’s more suitable for petrochemicals rather for fuel and so would be likely to be exported anyway, the arguments over having to import more oil for domestic purposes don’t really apply.

Its mainly gas

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17 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Its mainly gas

Hurricane Energy are currently pumping about 10,000 barrels a day from the Lancaster field, West of Shetland, and that seems to be good quality oil.  West of Shetland seems to be the new North Sea.

I have come to the conclusion that Sturgeon isn't exactly a deep thinker.  Her virtue signalling about Cambo is I think based on the presumption that WM will go ahead with it anyway - wonder what she'd do if they said yes, you're right, we'll ban it.

It makes no sense to harm the Scottish economy over this, when all that would happen is Saudi Arabia turning their taps on a bit more, them and Russia.  Any reduction in oil supply needs to be a worldwide effort.  Sturgeon is not bright enough to see that.  she is so consumed wither her woke shite that she would destroy the indy movement just to try to gain Stonewall points - and now Stonewall has become a pariah organisation, she is somewhat stranded in an offside position.

I am appalled at the new SNP NEC set-up, with no democracy and your woke cabal shoehorned in. I still haven't renewed my membership as I'm so disgusted by what is happening.  I think there is British state involvement to take effective control of the indy movement and crash it into a wall.  the way the SNP is heading, it will be like the National; just a facade to give an impression of a political party.  It will be perpetual "now is not the time".  Sturgeon is good at that.  What a let down she has been.  A colonial administrator who doesn't rock the boat is what she is fast becoming.

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34 minutes ago, Alibi said:

Hurricane Energy are currently pumping about 10,000 barrels a day from the Lancaster field, West of Shetland, and that seems to be good quality oil.  West of Shetland seems to be the new North Sea.

I have come to the conclusion that Sturgeon isn't exactly a deep thinker.  Her virtue signalling about Cambo is I think based on the presumption that WM will go ahead with it anyway - wonder what she'd do if they said yes, you're right, we'll ban it.

It makes no sense to harm the Scottish economy over this, when all that would happen is Saudi Arabia turning their taps on a bit more, them and Russia.  Any reduction in oil supply needs to be a worldwide effort.  Sturgeon is not bright enough to see that.  she is so consumed wither her woke shite that she would destroy the indy movement just to try to gain Stonewall points - and now Stonewall has become a pariah organisation, she is somewhat stranded in an offside position.

I am appalled at the new SNP NEC set-up, with no democracy and your woke cabal shoehorned in. I still haven't renewed my membership as I'm so disgusted by what is happening.  I think there is British state involvement to take effective control of the indy movement and crash it into a wall.  the way the SNP is heading, it will be like the National; just a facade to give an impression of a political party.  It will be perpetual "now is not the time".  Sturgeon is good at that.  What a let down she has been.  A colonial administrator who doesn't rock the boat is what she is fast becoming.

West of shetland has vast resources of hydrocarbons, with the climate concerns it will never get ramped up like the north sea and how it was developed, it will be more drip fed over a long period of time, its still very good to be sitting on reserves even if its not developed for decades/centuries,, its still there and there will always be a need for it,,the hurricane and lancaster development has been a strange one, initially it looked like it was going to be a game changer as its base formation is different to any current fields, but the wind has gone out its sails a bit, not entirely sure why. But yes i totally agree with your post i acnt decide if its incompetence, short sightedness or sabotage . The next thing will be who takes over from sturgeon after she doesn’t deliver independence , robertson vs katie forbes,, all hells going to break lose then. Forbes would bring a relieving sense of normalnnce back to the party.   

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An electoral culling of SNP MP's and MSPs is the only real solution that does not set us back a generation IMHO. Unfortunately I don't think it will happen.

Getting rid of Sturgeon is obviously critical as the rot has been happening from the head down but even if you got her out today she has inflicted a huge amount of damage by selecting so many woke nutters over the last 7 years. Again it is no coincidence she quickly went after and corrupted the NEC / selection process, that was key to inflicting long term damage... Apparently Angus Robertson is heavily involved (I think maybe something posted above named him).

So the SNP are now in a very similar situation to New Labour in the latter Blair years. The party is stuffed full of Blairites or in this case Sturgeonites.

The problem for Labour  became very evident when the grass roots Labour members tried to put a real socialist back in the job in the form of Jeremy Corbyn. He spent most of his tenure surrounded by back stabbing MPs on his own benches and in the end they did for him. (Corbyn was also subjected to very dirty tricks very similar to Salmond.) It will be the same story in the SNP if you replace Sturgeon now with a real nationalist / independence person.

Before ALBA turned up my argument before the last election was to vote tactically against the SNP at every opportunity. Vote for the candidate with the best chance of defeating the SNP candidate. And keep doing that until we force a change in the SNP leadership.

This also has another advantage, by selecting which seats to tactically vote in we can cull some of the woke Sturgeonite MPs/MSPs in the process and clear the decks (at least partially) for the selection of candidates based on merit and competence again and not rabid loyalty to Nicola's woke crap. Two birds, one stone.

Labour are still fucked, run by another Blair type. Why would you think the SNP will be able to shake off the Sturgeon years any faster they have the Blair years...

Even a cull is going to take us an election cycle and we just let them off the hook yet again...

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I think it was the last election there was quite a large percentage of MSPs standing down. So it does not take that many elections to turnover a significant number of MPs with new faces.

Now I am not sure how long it took Team Nicola to corrupt the SNP selection process after taking control of the party but she did it quickly and has had quite a few election cycles now for various reasons and each time she got to replace those MPs / MSPs not running again with her own woke candidates.

It has been going on for a long time and it also explains the all-female only shortlist shite, just an excuse to squeeze out candidates she does not like, in this case men. Remember when they announced a replacement candidate for the MP guy who was not even stepping down... 

When you put all of the things Sturgeon has down over the years since taking control, it is wall-to-wall. I don't know how anyone can have any doubts anymore. She is a wrecking ball. It is full spectrum. Attacking the oil and gas industry and our oil revenues is taking it to a new level even I have to admit. Really dangerous politician on many levels.

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I thought I'd check indyref 2 polling, here is chart for most of 2021. Latest couple of polls apparently show a very slight (+1-2%) increase in Yes, according to Scot Goes Pop (though most of his own polling these days seems to be about things other than independence)😉

page1-960px-Wiki_Scots_Indep_V6_recent_polls_pdf.jpg.ae1fb9f3227421900859b8e3736519e5.jpg

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On 11/22/2021 at 12:46 PM, hampden_loon2878 said:

West of shetland has vast resources of hydrocarbons, with the climate concerns it will never get ramped up like the north sea and how it was developed, it will be more drip fed over a long period of time, its still very good to be sitting on reserves even if its not developed for decades/centuries,, its still there and there will always be a need for it,,the hurricane and lancaster development has been a strange one, initially it looked like it was going to be a game changer as its base formation is different to any current fields, but the wind has gone out its sails a bit, not entirely sure why. But yes i totally agree with your post i can't decide if its incompetence, short sightedness or sabotage . The next thing will be who takes over from sturgeon after she doesn’t deliver independence , robertson vs katie forbes,, all hells going to break lose then. Forbes would bring a relieving sense of normalnnce back to the party.   

That's a story in itself - the board of directors were doing everything they could to damage the company so that the bondholders could get it for next to nothing through massive dilution, with existing shareholders being wiped out, but a large investor (Crystal Amber) took them to court to try to block their reconstruction plan and won.  Company now looks safe and I expect that the oil reserves, which they had announced had "disappeared", will suddenly re-appear.  There's a lot of oil in the area, massive amounts, and the fight to get control of it is pretty dirty.

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4 hours ago, Alibi said:

That's a story in itself - the board of directors were doing everything they could to damage the company so that the bondholders could get it for next to nothing through massive dilution, with existing shareholders being wiped out, but a large investor (Crystal Amber) took them to court to try to block their reconstruction plan and won.  Company now looks safe and I expect that the oil reserves, which they had announced had "disappeared", will suddenly re-appear.  There's a lot of oil in the area, massive amounts, and the fight to get control of it is pretty dirty.

I noticed all the majors bought licences in and around the reserves, that its self tells its own story 

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2 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Sturgeon changing her tune regarding new oil field developments to an extent, and rightly so, its a fucking idiotic stance and from what i hear, many snp msps/mos were furious, on bbc scotland just now stuttering and stumbling through the interview.  

I take the view that all of the oil needs to be left underground, but Sturgeon has been waffling her way back and forth on the issue for a while now. She's a hypocrite, she'll cozy up to Greta when it suits and oil executives the next day.

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2 hours ago, Freeedom said:

I take the view that all of the oil needs to be left underground, but Sturgeon has been waffling her way back and forth on the issue for a while now. She's a hypocrite, she'll cozy up to Greta when it suits and oil executives the next day.

Oil can be left underground but in the form of carbon dioxide, thats what carbon capture does.  

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My view is that we should extract every last barrel of oil that it commercially viable to extract. Which will probably mean most of it. The big BUT here is that we should use it as a feedstock for manufacturing industry and NOT as a source of energy. Oil and Gas is far too valuable to burn.

That would mean that the Oil would last much longer and be used for much more sensible purposes. We will be using oil long after we stop using it a fuel.

The big question, for me anyway, is how quickly can we can learn how to utilise other energy sources in order to replace the energy we currently get from burning oil and gas?

To me, it doesn't make any sense at all, to try to do that by shutting of the supply of oil and gas. That just hurts the poorest in society who can't afford to use the currently more expensive fuel sources. It should be tackled from the other end of the supply chain. Reduce the demand by inventing and perfecting other energy sources and ensuring that even the poorest people in our society can afford to use them.

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The SNP cannot keep using Covid to kick the can down the road. I fully supported focusing on the pandemic initially not least because there was no way of winning over soft No's under those circumstances, but Covid 19 isn't going anywhere and our recovery and response to it is restricted being part of the Union. We cannot just tread water hoping the virus will miraculously disappear. 

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35 minutes ago, Lamia said:

The SNP cannot keep using Covid to kick the can down the road. I fully supported focusing on the pandemic initially not least because there was no way of winning over soft No's under those circumstances, but Covid 19 isn't going anywhere and our recovery and response to it is restricted being part of the Union. We cannot just tread water hoping the virus will miraculously disappear. 

This latest one’s as a result of an interview Nicola Sturgeon did with Andrew Marr.  He asked her “Could this new variant derail your plans for IndyRef2”.

She gives the honest answer, Yes and then qualifies that by saying that’s because she doesn’t know how this will pan out, no-one does and if she said she did, everyone would think that was ridiculous”.

And if she gave that response the headlines would be off the scale, she’d be accused of putting lives in danger as a result of her “independence obsession”

Of course, “could”, gets translated into “will” by those people with an axe to grind.

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I see the joint request by the FM & Mark Drakeford to tighten restrictions on travel until the implications of this new variant are clearer have been rejected out of hand by Boris Johnson.  Given the mess he's made of dealing with covid, he should maybe stop doing everything from a standpoint of "whatever the FM asks for, I will just condemn it out of hand, no matter how sensible it might be".

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1 hour ago, aaid said:

One poll, bucking the trend somewhat.  Interesting to see if this is the start of a trend or an outlier.

 

I think that's what unionists would claim was an overwhelming majority.

Unwise to trust one poll, but for subjects like this I do sometimes wonder if we are told the truth about other poll results.  Especially Yougov - which I found out recently was set up by Tory MP Nadim Zahawi.  Can you really trust these corrupt manipulators not to massage the results when it's a matter of such importance to him and his mates?  they're unlikely to want to show a majority for indy as it would tend to increase the indy vote on the basis that people have a tendency to want to be on the winning side.

Imagine what the poll would be like if we had a leader who was prepared to promote indy instead of being scared to raise the subject & terrified of upsetting the establishment.

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35 minutes ago, Alibi said:

I think that's what unionists would claim was an overwhelming majority.

Unwise to trust one poll, but for subjects like this I do sometimes wonder if we are told the truth about other poll results.  Especially Yougov - which I found out recently was set up by Tory MP Nadim Zahawi.  Can you really trust these corrupt manipulators not to massage the results when it's a matter of such importance to him and his mates?  they're unlikely to want to show a majority for indy as it would tend to increase the indy vote on the basis that people have a tendency to want to be on the winning side.

Imagine what the poll would be like if we had a leader who was prepared to promote indy instead of being scared to raise the subject & terrified of upsetting the establishment.

I'm not going to come to any hard and fast view until we see more polls to see if this is a trend.

On you're latter point, perhaps for the unconvinced voter - which is those that we need to get to vote Yes - the red meat that appeals to committed activists isn't really what's required and maybe a more nuanced approach is working.  

There's lots of evidence to suggest that where people have shifted from No to Yes, its been more as a result of conversations they've had with friends and relatives rather than what any politician has said.

Never ceases to amaze me the number of Yessers who get involves in social media ding dongs with committed unionists.  It's a complete waste of time and self defeating as you will never shift them.   

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On 11/28/2021 at 8:50 PM, Lamia said:

The SNP cannot keep using Covid to kick the can down the road. I fully supported focusing on the pandemic initially not least because there was no way of winning over soft No's under those circumstances, but Covid 19 isn't going anywhere and our recovery and response to it is restricted being part of the Union. We cannot just tread water hoping the virus will miraculously disappear. 

I get what you are saying but we need to win over the soft no voters and don't know voters. Those tend to be the ones unable to make their minds up or unwilling to commit to a cause or overly-cautious-types. 

Can you imagine how Better Together2 would have a complete field day if we leap whilst COVID is still rampant? Manner from heaven for the unionists. Terrible SNP/Nicola they do not care about your health. They are putting independence before the health and safety of Scots. They cannot be trusted - they promised to wait until after the pandemic but they are reneging on that. Jeez the voters we'd need to convince would be lost before we even get started.

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