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2 minutes ago, aaid said:

And the Alba one was a massive success.

What’s going on there anyways, I thought they were in it for the long haul, there were some by-elections last night and they didn’t stand any candidates.

I see Alex’s blocking anyone from standing against him as leader, must be worried about a challenge.

you know more than me but aye they will be around for a while,, council elections will be interesting

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Sadly, hampdenloon you are backing up exactly what I said as to why I am resigned to independence not happening due to pettiness and not enough vision for the future.

Scottish independence is F*** all about Samond (in 2014) or Sturgeon (2021) and simply about self-governance for Scotland breaking the ties with Westminster. Sadly, there are far too many voters blinded by hatred or negativity about individuals for it to happen. Amazingly, people let this nepotism block any chance Scotland has for independence and keeps it in the gutter to be kicked and spat on by the endless run of Tory governments we will have and see the gradual breakdown of Holyrood and its meagre powers it holds.

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8 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Sadly, hampdenloon you are backing up exactly what I said as to why I am resigned to independence not happening due to pettiness and not enough vision for the future.

Scottish independence is F*** all about Samond (in 2014) or Sturgeon (2021) and simply about self-governance for Scotland breaking the ties with Westminster. Sadly, there are far too many voters blinded by hatred or negativity about individuals for it to happen. Amazingly, people let this nepotism block any chance Scotland has for independence and keeps it in the gutter to be kicked and spat on by the endless run of Tory governments we will have and see the gradual breakdown of Holyrood and its meagre powers it holds.

i will always vote for independence, i will also always champion it i will however question the party tasked with getting that independence. the pary exist to gain independence!! not use it as a vehicle to push their ideology on us. How has the party swayed so far from its principles?? its because folk are laying back and allowing it because they think it is good for independence when it most definitely not... my wife said yesterday that she will not vote independence as things are at the moment,, parents are furious with this and rightfully so

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Great few days for independence, sturgeon goes against the oil and gas industry, encourages 4 year olds to lie to their parents and now wants to welcome thousands of refugees, when lets face it, we struggle to look after our own

Edited by hampden_loon2878
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2 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Great few days for independence, sturgeon goes against the oil and gas industry, encourages 4 year olds to lie to their parents and now wants to welcome thousands of refugees, when lets face it, we struggle to look after our own

You’re showing your true colours there.

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2 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Aye ok, here we go

One of the things in all of this that makes me laugh is that despite all of what has happened and all the nasty vicious posts made against you... you still trust this piece of sh** more than you do me.  It attacks you endlessly while I (not) literally dug you out of a grave they made for you. I do believe I have said it before. You are a fucking idiot loon. :lol:

What are you looking for here? approval from someone who utterly despises you? 

Why has the SNP gone fucked... ehhh maybe look at yourself bud as well... how can you still keep going back to this dog. FFS. 

 

Edited by thplinth
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2 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Aye ok, here we go

He’s right though. This is the first time in my adult life I believe that independence won’t happen in my lifetime and it makes me sad. But I truly and very strongly believe we should be a place of refuge for all those that require it, and will never change my view on that.

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Immigration was weaponized a while ago. Really would not take much to put their thumb on the demographic scales in Scotland. More of an acceleration of what they have been doing for a very long time...

Sturgeon is absolutely slavering at the bit to get devolved immigration powers. Been so for years... Refugees are kind of a back door route.

If Sturgeon had the immigration powers a few years ago she would have brought in hundreds of thousands in an Angela Merkle style virtue signally move.

You have to see it through their eyes... it just will dilute the YES to no threat whatsoever.

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1 hour ago, thplinth said:

One of the things in all of this that makes me laugh is that despite all of what has happened and all the nasty vicious posts made against you... you still trust this piece of sh** more than you do me.  It attacks you endlessly while I (not) literally dug you out of a grave they made for you. I do believe I have said it before. You are a fucking idiot loon. :lol:

What are you looking for here? approval from someone who utterly despises you? 

Why has the SNP gone fucked... ehhh maybe look at yourself bud as well... how can you still keep going back to this dog. FFS. 

 

maybe stop calling me an idiot and start to gain my trust haha,, i dont trust aaid one little bit for what its worth, i remember everything she said about me prior the 2017 snap election. i may well come across as too diplomatic even weak however i have ways of doing things and like to think away from this board folk respect my views and actually listen to me. Also i take note of what you say and take it on board although you go over the top some times. there is logic to ne remaining a member of the snp as when sturgeon steps down which is not that far away, i will have a vote to keep angus robertson out

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4 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

maybe stop calling me an idiot and start to gain my trust haha,, i dont trust aaid one little bit for what its worth, i remember everything she said about me prior the 2017 snap election. i may well come across as too diplomatic even weak however i have ways of doing things and like to think away from this board folk respect my views and actually listen to me. Also i take note of what you say and take it on board although you go over the top some times. there is logic to ne remaining a member of the snp as when sturgeon steps down which is not that far away, i will have a vote to keep angus robertson out

Aye fair enough loon.

But not...

You are sooooo soft, you just get beat up all the time. Like Salmond.

Good luck bud. I know you are a good guy. Like Scotland I suppose.

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33 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

maybe stop calling me an idiot and start to gain my trust haha,, i dont trust aaid one little bit for what its worth, i remember everything she said about me prior the 2017 snap election. i may well come across as too diplomatic even weak however i have ways of doing things and like to think away from this board folk respect my views and actually listen to me. Also i take note of what you say and take it on board although you go over the top some times. there is logic to ne remaining a member of the snp as when sturgeon steps down which is not that far away, i will have a vote to keep angus robertson out

Please respect my pronouns he/him.

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2 hours ago, duncan II said:

He’s right though. This is the first time in my adult life I believe that independence won’t happen in my lifetime and it makes me sad. But I truly and very strongly believe we should be a place of refuge for all those that require it, and will never change my view on that.

right with what exactly? yes in an ideal world we would take in everybody in however it isnt

 

Edited by hampden_loon2878
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14 hours ago, duncan II said:

He’s right though. This is the first time in my adult life I believe that independence won’t happen in my lifetime and it makes me sad. But I truly and very strongly believe we should be a place of refuge for all those that require it, and will never change my view on that.

There’s alway scope to help out people who are worse off than you,  it’s basic human decency.

At the very least we should be pulling out and granting asylum to all those who worked for the UK as their future looks very grim indeed. 

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For me it is another foray into virtue signalling politics with a statement given for Twitter likes and retweets rather than any substance behind it on how to achieve it or what purpose it’ll actually achieve.  Absolutely no issue with the premise but it would be a much easier statement to make in Scotland if education, health, housing etc wasn’t currently in such a mess and it was something we could actually decide on our own without input from West Minster. 

 

Additionally the number of asylum seekers the UK takes in currently is an absolute disgrace ranking not 7th in the world but 7th in the EU with between 25k-40k per year recently but yet there’s been a lack of pious pontification around that number previously.   Given that a catalyst for a great deal of dispersed people is our complicit foreign policy we should be taking more  than this already but is only now on the radar for a chance of some brownie points and it’s driven purely through ethical egoism.

 

We’ve already fucked it really anyway as supporters over there already are getting executed from accounts on Twitter but what is the magic number for locals who helped us to bring back here – 10,000? 20,000? 100,000? 1,000,000?  This is all bollocks so we can sleep at night in our sanitised position tucked up in bed safe in the knowledge we’ve tried our best in making this shit show more palatable whereas it’s a pointless drop in the ocean to the poor bastards left behind anyway.  There’s 19m women there who’ve in all likelihood lost access to basic human rights, probably 3-4m homosexuals, untold supporters of previous regimes/less strict religiously, etc just left to fend for themselves. 

 

The ‘Great Game’ of the 19th century, a mix between diplomacy and penis measurement, led to us the first time putting someone in place who couldn’t control the tribes resulting in our complete annihilation in our first invasion and returning 40 years later resulting where our new venture leaving a complete bastard in power on the sole proviso we’d leave him to it so long as he didn’t let the Russians through if they fancied a sniff at India.  How depressing that 150-200 years later nothing has changed with the US seemingly only requesting their safe passage out and willing to give the Taliban another go so long as they don’t get to chummy with Al Q or any of their bastard offspring. 

 

The Afghan army they left in place has been totally shafted and how is a band of locals expected to repel the Taliban when the nation with 40% of the world military spending struggled to do it for 20 years and then just fucks off and leaves with loads of the infrastructure their tactics depends

 

Ours, and more so the US, moral obligations stretch way beyond taking in a token number of refugees whereas they’re already discussing potential trade agreements for fuck sake!   

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8 minutes ago, ThistleWhistle said:

For me it is another foray into virtue signalling politics with a statement given for Twitter likes and retweets rather than any substance behind it on how to achieve it or what purpose it’ll actually achieve.  Absolutely no issue with the premise but it would be a much easier statement to make in Scotland if education, health, housing etc wasn’t currently in such a mess and it was something we could actually decide on our own without input from West Minster. 

 

Immigration - and by extension - the asylum system is reserved so outwith the direct control of Holyrood.  Holyrood can of course exert pressure on the UKG.

It's also possible though for local councils to step up because of how the system is operated.  Scotland punches way above its weight here and generally takes around twice as many than if it were a per capita allocation.  Glasgow in particular takes way more than other council areas both in raw numbers and per capita.   Credit where it's due, that was something that started under the previous Labour administration and has been continued by the current SNP one.   By comparision, my local authority - the Royal Borough of Windsor and Maidenhead - has taken a round number, 0.

Its a lot more than just virtue signalling, it's also false equivalence to say "these things over there are a mess" - which may or may not be true - "so we can't do this thing here".

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Sturgeon is absolutely desperate to get immigration powers devolved so she can do exactly what Angela Merkel did in Germany. If she had had the powers at the time she would have done exactly the same thing. She is desperate to do it.

I don't think Sturgeon gives a fuck about ordinary Scots.

Edited by thplinth
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3 hours ago, aaid said:

Immigration - and by extension - the asylum system is reserved so outwith the direct control of Holyrood.  Holyrood can of course exert pressure on the UKG.

It's also possible though for local councils to step up because of how the system is operated.  Scotland punches way above its weight here and generally takes around twice as many than if it were a per capita allocation.  Glasgow in particular takes way more than other council areas both in raw numbers and per capita.   Credit where it's due, that was something that started under the previous Labour administration and has been continued by the current SNP one.   By comparision, my local authority - the Royal Borough of Windsor and Maidenhead - has taken a round number, 0.

Its a lot more than just virtue signalling, it's also false equivalence to say "these things over there are a mess" - which may or may not be true - "so we can't do this thing here".

This from May has the UK as 17th per head of capita in the EU for refugees and looking to reduce it further:

 

https://www.thenewhumanitarian.org/analysis/2021/5/11/whats-behind-uk-harsh-post-brexit-asylum-overhaul

 

NS highlighting 2,000 Syrian refugees we took as something worth trumpeting, or heralding Scotland’s share of the pie is better than the rest of the UK, is ethical egoism as it misses entirely that the pie itself being ludicrously small in the first place.  If the concern was for refugees then 2,000 would be seen an abject embarrassment rather than something to advertise positively and now providing Canada (promising 40,000 so about 4,000 for Scotland if UK copy) as some sort of benchmark for Afghanistan BJ should be aiming for would seem grossly inadequate in the circumstances.  I could only find Scotland from 2011 being 0.4% of population being made up of asylum seekers whereas at the moment Germany is c.1.5% and Sweden over 2.5% so again this could be used to steer the conversation on the UK’s asylum being negligent in meeting its moral obligations.  Instead it’s purely gesturing as tutting in WM for the poor bastards left behind  to fend for themselves whilst not flagging the obscenely low refugee figure taken in overall is going to achieve nothing apart for the lucky few who win the travel documentation lottery living in Glasgow, Ayr or Dundee rather than Stoke or Burnley.       

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Just now, ThistleWhistle said:

This from May has the UK as 17th per head of capita in the EU for refugees and looking to reduce it further:

 

https://www.thenewhumanitarian.org/analysis/2021/5/11/whats-behind-uk-harsh-post-brexit-asylum-overhaul

 

NS highlighting 2,000 Syrian refugees we took as something worth trumpeting, or heralding Scotland’s share of the pie is better than the rest of the UK, is ethical egoism as it misses entirely that the pie itself being ludicrously small in the first place.  If the concern was for refugees then 2,000 would be seen an abject embarrassment rather than something to advertise positively and now providing Canada (promising 40,000 so about 4,000 for Scotland if UK copy) as some sort of benchmark for Afghanistan BJ should be aiming for would seem grossly inadequate in the circumstances.  I could only find Scotland from 2011 being 0.4% of population being made up of asylum seekers whereas at the moment Germany is c.1.5% and Sweden over 2.5% so again this could be used to steer the conversation on the UK’s asylum being negligent in meeting its moral obligations.  Instead it’s purely gesturing as tutting in WM for the poor bastards left behind  to fend for themselves whilst not flagging the obscenely low refugee figure taken in overall is going to achieve nothing apart for the lucky few who win the travel documentation lottery living in Glasgow, Ayr or Dundee rather than Stoke or Burnley.       

So essentially what you’re saying is that because the SG can’t decide upon the numbers that come in they should basically STFU.  

You do realise that this is a total Yoon argument.

Eat your cereal indeed.

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43 minutes ago, aaid said:

So essentially what you’re saying is that because the SG can’t decide upon the numbers that come in they should basically STFU.  

You do realise that this is a total Yoon argument.

Eat your cereal indeed.

I'm saying pretty much the opposite in that with the limited scope of influence that the  SG do have about all they can do is use the ridiculously small number of  asylum seekers we do take as a platform to shout from the rooftops to highlight the overall UK figure being grossly insufficient.  Without doing that they themselves have chosen to STFU to the size of the pie overall with the added benefit we're able to prove our share of it as superior to England's.         

Why choose Canada's 40,000 as an arbitrary benchmark too as acceptable when WM themselves in January seemed able to potentially accommodate up to 70% of  the Hong Kong population which is approximately the equivalent to the size of Scotland?  

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Not sure what a Scottish FM is supposed to do other than signal willingness to help take our share of refugees.

As far as I can see, from Twitter, Alex Salmond has said nothig on the issue, ditto the Greens leaders, ditto Douglas Ross and Anas Sarwar. The only other political leader (candidate) I can see calling for action is Alex Cole-Hamilton who is basically calling on the UK Government to act, to do more, do the right thing, etc. Is that virtue signalling? Not sure what more he could do, either, as the as-yet-unelected 'leader' of a minor opposition devolved party that has no power whatsoever.

Edited by exile
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