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Thplinth's typical reaction whenever he's respectfully challenged by other posters about his (borderline spam posting) increasingly paranoid, conspiracy supporting, right wing views ..... T

You think you're becoming more pragmatic, can see both sides, with age and then an individual turns your country into a colony.  And I use that word advisedly. Don't even need to defend their pos

You might think Denise and the #iamthestorm crowd are exaggerating, but just look at the evidence. Over here in Ireland we've had gender recognition certificates for years now. As a result, Irela

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2 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

Playing the devils advocate here, who is to say HE is telling truth ? 

That would mean there is a giant conspiracy from Salmond, Hamilton, Clancy and Aberdein, with them all cooking up a plot to say that there was a planned meeting with the First Minister in her office in late March to discuss the fact there had been complaints. That would be a criminal conspiracy where two of the four conspirators are actually lawyers

The March meeting was definitely scheduled and not 'fleeting'. But that does not mean that the exact details of the complaints were discussed between Aberdein and the First Minister.

The exact details may only have been disclosed at the meeting at the First Minister's house in early April. Factually the First Minister was aware of the presence of complaints in March, but might only have became aware of the detail in April. It's a matter of semantics

 

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2 hours ago, AlfieMoon said:

It’s not a good look for a leader to be on the defence all the time - even if the defence they put up is valid and legitimate in countering ridiculous claims. 

^^^

And this, sorry I can't seem to use multiquote, so 2 separate posts.

I'm no political strategist, and I wouldn't argue with the success of the approach in recent times, but for me it's high past time that they start getting on the front foot with a few things.  Starting with calling out people like Sarah Smith, Wark, Neil and Keunssberg (I'm not going to check the spelling).  The other big one is for me is debt/deficit, when they don't even have borrowing powers and international law regarding "successor states" seems crystal clear.

I could be misreading the public mood completely, especially staying down south, so feel free to tell me I'm talking out of my bahookie, but I really would be encouraged to see them coming out swinging.

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10 minutes ago, tartandon said:

That would mean there is a giant conspiracy from Salmond, Hamilton, Clancy and Aberdein, with them all cooking up a plot to say that there was a planned meeting with the First Minister in her office in late March to discuss the fact there had been complaints. That would be a criminal conspiracy where two of the four conspirators are actually lawyers

The March meeting was definitely scheduled and not 'fleeting'. But that does not mean that the exact details of the complaints were discussed between Aberdein and the First Minister.

The exact details may only have been disclosed at the meeting at the First Minister's house in early April. Factually the First Minister was aware of the presence of complaints in March, but might only have became aware of the detail in April. It's a matter of semantics

 

Sorry, but it’s not quite that black and white. There’s a whole lot of grey. 
 

My reading of the Hamilton submission to me says that the March 29th meeting basically comes down to Sturgeon’s word vs Aberdein. There is no corroboration. 

That’s not saying that lawyers are conspiring for Salmond, but there’s a lot of playing on words and misinterpreting going on here. By politicians, media and Joe public! 


People are morphing the statements into corroboration of that event, when in fact, the only date for which corroboration exists is the events of the 2nd April. The most damning thing for that date is that the meeting supposedly launched into action with Sturgeon in no doubt about what the agenda was. I wouldn’t be surprised that that could be argued against.  

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4 minutes ago, tartandon said:

That would mean there is a giant conspiracy from Salmond, Hamilton, Clancy and Aberdein, with them all cooking up a plot to say that there was a planned meeting with the First Minister in her office in late March to discuss the fact there had been complaints. That would be a criminal conspiracy where two of the four conspirators are actually lawyers

The March meeting was definitely scheduled and not 'fleeting'. But that does not mean that the exact details of the complaints were discussed between Aberdein and the First Minister.

The exact details may only have been disclosed at the meeting at the First Minister's house in early April. Factually the First Minister was aware of the presence of complaints in March, but might only have became aware of the detail in April. It's a matter of semantics

 

👍 thanks. 

It’s highly unlikely there would be a conspiracy to that level,  though I suppose  some may argue its highly unlikely the FM would be involved in a conspiracy  to smear and potentially jail AS. 

What a mess. 

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16 minutes ago, AlfieMoon said:

Sorry, but it’s not quite that black and white. There’s a whole lot of grey. 
 

My reading of the Hamilton submission to me says that the March 29th meeting basically comes down to Sturgeon’s word vs Aberdein. There is no corroboration. 

That’s not saying that lawyers are conspiring for Salmond, but there’s a lot of playing on words and misinterpreting going on here. By politicians, media and Joe public! 


People are morphing the statements into corroboration of that event, when in fact, the only date for which corroboration exists is the events of the 2nd April. The most damning thing for that date is that the meeting supposedly launched into action with Sturgeon in no doubt about what the agenda was. I wouldn’t be surprised that that could be argued against.  

Was one of the First Minister's advisers not present for (at least part of) the meeting in March - maybe Liz LLoyd?

When the First Minister was questioned by Willie Rennie at FMQs last week, the inference was that somebody disclosed the name of a complainant on that date. The First Minister replied along the lines of 'not to my knowledge'. I think he was inferring that her adviser had disclosed the name. But it looks like the name of that particular complainant was known to Aberdein earlier in March.

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55 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:I just hope she has really good arguments to put forward and some ‘evidence’ of her own if she has not been involved as they will just not let it go  . 

Given that I haven’t been following this closely enough to know the full ins and outs, forgive me if I briefly talk shite, but remember the good old days when you didnae have to prove you didnae do something and the burden of proof fell on the person accusing you of doing it?

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4 hours ago, aaid said:

It's pretty obvious what is going on here.  The Tories have been building up to this for weeks now as the see this whole inquiry as their only way of ousting Nicola Sturgeon as they know they can't do that in a election.

They've been throwing everything at it but not only is none of it getting any traction, nothing so far is sticking.

Salmond's appearance was being built up as bombshell and failed to deliver.  He made a lot of assertions and levelled accusations but provided no evidence.  

The Lord Advocate answered to a load of the accusations he made specifically against him and the Crown Office today.   

The legal advice just released contradicts his assertion that the SG knew in October that the would lose the case.  That's not what the legal advice shows, it shows that it wasn't until late December that they came to that conclusion and the conceded in early January.  

I see that the Crown Office has also released the messages that purportedly show that there was a malicious plan against Salmond.  Lets see what happens with them and whether the Committee publishes them.  The last lot of messages they got, they didn't.

The Tories are running out of options so they're going nuclear now.

Aye, it's possible they've shown their hand too soon. Like Exile says, calling for Nicola Sturgeon's head before she's even given her evidence - and basically saying it doesn't matter what she says, she has to go - isn't a good look, it just makes them seem vindictive.

I don't know if anyone else saw Newsnight earlier but Nick Watt basically said Number 10 would be delighted if Sturgeon went, as the SNP have no potential replacement of her calibre (which is true). He also said their hope is, if she survives, that her image will be so tarnished that support for independence drops.I think this might well happen.

Alternatively, though, if enough people see what the UK government are up to it might have the opposite effect and increase support for independence. That's the best case scenario I can see at the moment. :lol:

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14 minutes ago, scotlad said:

Aye, it's possible they've shown their hand too soon. Like Exile says, calling for Nicola Sturgeon's head before she's even given her evidence - and basically saying it doesn't matter what she says, she has to go - isn't a good look, it just makes them seem vindictive.

I don't know if anyone else saw Newsnight earlier but Nick Watt basically said Number 10 would be delighted if Sturgeon went, as the SNP have no potential replacement of her calibre (which is true). He also said their hope is, if she survives, that her image will be so tarnished that support for independence drops.I think this might well happen.

Alternatively, though, if enough people see what the UK government are up to it might have the opposite effect and increase support for independence. That's the best case scenario I can see at the moment. :lol:

No 10 would be delighted to see the back of her because they are terrified of her and, irrespective of your views of her, is very much internationally recognised as a leader who has handled the pandemic far better that shower of Tory fuckwits.

I honestly think Ross has made a dick of himself. If he had any sense (and by Christ that’s a virtue he is completely bereft of) then he’d have let the committee do his work, bide his time and if it was proven beyond doubt Sturgeon wilfully misled Parliament then that’s his opportunity to strike. It’s got me thinking - is he shit scared she’ll play a blinder tomorrow and pull la rabbit out the hat that will see the deck of cards collapse?

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19 minutes ago, scotlad said:

Aye, it's possible they've shown their hand too soon. Like Exile says, calling for Nicola Sturgeon's head before she's even given her evidence - and basically saying it doesn't matter what she says, she has to go - isn't a good look, it just makes them seem vindictive.

I don't know if anyone else saw Newsnight earlier but Nick Watt basically said Number 10 would be delighted if Sturgeon went, as the SNP have no potential replacement of her calibre (which is true). He also said their hope is, if she survives, that her image will be so tarnished that support for independence drops.I think this might well happen.

Alternatively, though, if enough people see what the UK government are up to it might have the opposite effect and increase support for independence. That's the best case scenario I can see at the moment. :lol:

I think there are probably two different tendences.

One, is that people get sick or scunnered of politics, there's a feeling it's all a nasty game, infighting, they're all at it, and one's as bad as another, and (between people on the indy side) fed up with the aggro of being attacked by your own side, and just quietly turning off poliictics, debate, activism, and ultimately, staying at home on election day.

On the other hand, people see a unionist pile-on - Scotland's institutions being rubbished and attacked from the outside by Tories, Lords, Unionists and London press - and especially the Spectator exiles trying to interfere in the Scottish courts, trying to bring down the Scottish Government, not a good look, and secondly, the sense of a witch-hunt about the attacks on Sturgeon especially before even having a chance to defend herself, it could be enough to actually galvanise and stiffen the resolve to fight back and make certain to turn out and vote.

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11 minutes ago, exile said:

I think there are probably two different tendences.

One, is that people get sick or scunnered of politics, there's a feeling it's all a nasty game, infighting, they're all at it, and one's as bad as another, and (between people on the indy side) fed up with the aggro of being attacked by your own side, and just quietly turning off poliictics, debate, activism, and ultimately, staying at home on election day.

On the other hand, people see a unionist pile-on - Scotland's institutions being rubbished and attacked from the outside by Tories, Lords, Unionists and London press - and especially the Spectator exiles trying to interfere in the Scottish courts, trying to bring down the Scottish Government, not a good look, and secondly, the sense of a witch-hunt about the attacks on Sturgeon especially before even having a chance to defend herself, it could be enough to actually galvanise and stiffen the resolve to fight back and make certain to turn out and vote.

Your last bit is bang on. This might reenergise our core vote to get out in droves on May 6th.

Although you wonder how this will affect swing voters thinking. Will they see the bigger picture in the untold damage these Tory bastards will continuously inflict on us

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2 minutes ago, King Of Paisley said:

Your last bit is bang on. This might reenergise our core vote to get out in droves on May 6th.

Although you wonder how this will affect swing voters thinking. Will they see the bigger picture in the untold damage these Tory bastards will continuously inflict on us

I may be wrong but I sense there could be a hardening of the committed SNP voters who might have thought of giving 2nd vote to Greens or ISP, rightly or wrongly, after Greens' VONC threat and ISP failure to cut through, sticking with SNP 1&2.

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10 minutes ago, exile said:

I may be wrong but I sense there could be a hardening of the committed SNP voters who might have thought of giving 2nd vote to Greens or ISP, rightly or wrongly, after Greens' VONC threat and ISP failure to cut through, sticking with SNP 1&2.

I was thinking of giving my 2nd vote to the Greens but Harvie and his mob can do one

SNP 1 and 2 for me. When I saw the news tonight I was utterly disillusioned and thought of seriously not bothering to vote in May and jacking my SNP membership. But it’s a means to an end now and need to get out there and put the cross in the box. I hope this thinking is replicated across the country 

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7 hours ago, King Of Paisley said:

I was thinking of giving my 2nd vote to the Greens but Harvie and his mob can do one

SNP 1 and 2 for me. When I saw the news tonight I was utterly disillusioned and thought of seriously not bothering to vote in May and jacking my SNP membership. But it’s a means to an end now and need to get out there and put the cross in the box. I hope this thinking is replicated across the country 

Being utterly disllusioned is exactly what they want us to think.

To think it's all a mess, that Scotland can't run itself, that self-governance is not worth fighting for.

But imagine waking up finding SNP voter apathy and mass tactical voting against SNP result in a Douglas Ross-led unionist coalition in Holyrood, being reported gleefully by Sarah Smith, Glenn Campbell, Andrew Neil and wall to wall gloating by Michael Forsyth, George Foulkes, George Galloway... and Michael Gove with a new blueprint for devolution....

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Just now, exile said:

Being utterly disllusioned is exactly what they want us to think.

To think it's all a mess, that Scotland can't run itself, that self-governance is not worth fighting for.

But imagine waking up finding SNP voter apathy and mass tactical voting against SNP result in a Douglas Ross-led unionist coalition in Holyrood, being reported gleefully by Sarah Smith, Glenn Campbell, Andrew Neil and wall to wall gloating by Michael Forsyth, George Foulkes, George Galloway... and Michael Gove with a new blueprint for devolution....

We knew that 

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2 minutes ago, exile said:

Being utterly disllusioned is exactly what they want us to think.

To think it's all a mess, that Scotland can't run itself, that self-governance is not worth fighting for.

But imagine waking up finding SNP voter apathy and mass tactical voting against SNP result in a Douglas Ross-led unionist coalition in Holyrood, being reported gleefully by Sarah Smith, Glenn Campbell, Andrew Neil and wall to wall gloating by Michael Forsyth, George Foulkes, George Galloway... and Michael Gove with a new blueprint for devolution....

Yeah look at it this way, no matter how bad the SNP are look at the alternative!

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7 hours ago, King Of Paisley said:

I was thinking of giving my 2nd vote to the Greens but Harvie and his mob can do one

SNP 1 and 2 for me. When I saw the news tonight I was utterly disillusioned and thought of seriously not bothering to vote in May and jacking my SNP membership. But it’s a means to an end now and need to get out there and put the cross in the box. I hope this thinking is replicated across the country 

It won't be.  Hopefully people will be aiming for anti lockdown party or pro union forces for good. 

 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Lamia said:

So when is the evidence session today - I cannot find a start time

Ignore this - it was right in front of my nose on the Scottish Parliament TV website!

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1 minute ago, Lamia said:

Ignore this - it was right in front of my nose on the Scottish Government website!

9am - looks like full coverage on BBC Scotland. 

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On 2/27/2021 at 2:08 AM, exile said:

A TAMB enquiry would be something to behold. Imagine a live trial, everyone acting in character...

I nominate Lamia MacKinnon as Investigating Officer and aaid Evans as Deciding Officer.

What could possibly go wrong. :lol:

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8 hours ago, Marky said:

Given that I haven’t been following this closely enough to know the full ins and outs, forgive me if I briefly talk shite, but remember the good old days when you didnae have to prove you didnae do something and the burden of proof fell on the person accusing you of doing it?

That good ship Integrity sailed a while back. Guilty until proven innocent is the new sheriff in town. 

 

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8 hours ago, King Of Paisley said:

I was thinking of giving my 2nd vote to the Greens but Harvie and his mob can do one

SNP 1 and 2 for me. When I saw the news tonight I was utterly disillusioned and thought of seriously not bothering to vote in May and jacking my SNP membership. But it’s a means to an end now and need to get out there and put the cross in the box. I hope this thinking is replicated across the country 

I re-joined last night.  A means to an end is exactly what it is.

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