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Ooft, that's incredible numbers really.

Most folk outside Twitter don't know or care enough about Salmond/Sturgeon or the trans/Wings stuff.

58% for Indy is incredible really. Never thought I'd see the day of that in a poll.

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, weekevie04 said:

Ooft, that's incredible numbers really.

Most folk outside Twitter don't know or care enough about Salmond/Sturgeon or the trans/Wings stuff.

58% for Indy is incredible really. Never thought I'd see the day of that in a poll.

 

 

 

The current events have really galvinised me for independence. It's shown how imperative it is to break away from the Tories. I'm sure others feel the same.

Most folk aren't on twitter or read newspapers. It's an echo chamber for the partisans to fight their battles but they are a minority.

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38 minutes ago, weekevie04 said:

Ooft, that's incredible numbers really.

Most folk outside Twitter don't know or care enough about Salmond/Sturgeon or the trans/Wings stuff.

58% for Indy is incredible really. Never thought I'd see the day of that in a poll.

 

 

 

And this against a backdrop of the public anger about hospitality closing and Nicola Sturgeon's response about the Salmond affair. And this is BEFORE Brexit kicks in and the hated Internal Market Bill.

I agree with Kumnio. No one really could give two fucks about who said what during Salmondgate, the simple fact is that Scots have had more than enough of BoJo and his cabal of fascists.

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I'd treat these numbers with a bit of a pinch of salt.

There was a poll out at the weekend - can't remember which company - which showed support at 53/47.  If you looked at that in conjunction with the voting intention numbers it looked as if the sample in that poll was skewed a little towards Labour as their vote share had increased slightly with no real reason why that would be the case.  Similarly but in the other side, this poll looks like its a bit skewed towards SNP/Yes particularly as the Labour VI has tanked in this poll.

The standard margin of error is +- 3% so it looks like these polls are probably at either end of that range.   Won't really know until more polling is done but Indy support is probably closer to the 55/56% level.   That's hugely encouraging but something to bear in mind if there are forthcoming polls in the next couple of weeks or so that show that level of support - it hasn't fallen back.

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3 hours ago, kumnio said:

I think this kinda shows that the vast majority of the public dont give a flying fuck about the Salmond/Sturgeon issue.

I think you are right at the moment, but the dirty laundry hasn't been fully displayed to the general public so far. Time will tell on that one.

But the independence movement, and indeed the SNP, are far bigger, and more important, than any first minister, past or present. 

I'm not getting too excited by this one poll. I don't trust opinion polls at any time, but especially when they start telling me what I want to hear. That is when they are at their most dangerous, IMO.

 

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2 hours ago, Toepoke said:

Wow, what numbers will be achieved when the pubs open again? 

Maybe they will go back down again as folk can go back to pubs, get pished and stop caring again? Maybe Nicola should decree that pubs are staying shut until independence day, just to give a wee bit of extra incentive? :lol:

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4 hours ago, kumnio said:

I think this kinda shows that the vast majority of the public dont give a flying fuck about the Salmond/Sturgeon issue.

 



The haters will be beeling

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So few people are aware of what was done to AS but it is going to be a long few months of damaging revelations and speculations. 

What should be raising a few eyebrows is that the 'unionist media' are so far largely ignoring all of it. That is seemingly to protect Nicola while they are in contrast wildly aggressive with Alex and his supporters.

The fact Loon is still holding on is perhaps the board's canary in the coal mine. He is still alive for now. 

The SNP have no political competition in Scotland. They are not going to get voted out the next election. No one including folk like Murray or Wings say that (or hope for it). 

With the never ending fallout of BREXIT for the foreseeable the SNP literally have to do nothing to look 'good'. 

That said the SNP have painted themselves into a corner on indyref2 and have developed zero paths to actually achieving independence. Boris ain't going to agree and if he goes do you think odious Gove will? The SNP don't campaign on it, extoll it or explain how it will work. Six years on and what more do you know about how the currency would work since one day after NO in 2014.

If the truth about what they did to AS really hits the public awareness I could see his supporters not turning out rather than voting for the opposition or anything that extreme. Which could still be very damaging . I think it was the SNP not turning out in 2017 that cost 20 seats so if that happened again it might have some impact but at worst it will be a reduced majority.

If Nicola goes it will be due to this internal scandal of Team Nicola's own making. 

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4 hours ago, thplinth said:

So few people are aware of what was done to AS but it is going to be a long few months of damaging revelations and speculations. 

What should be raising a few eyebrows is that the 'unionist media' are so far largely ignoring all of it. That is seemingly to protect Nicola while they are in contrast wildly aggressive with Alex and his supporters.

The fact Loon is still holding on is perhaps the board's canary in the coal mine. He is still alive for now. 

The SNP have no political competition in Scotland. They are not going to get voted out the next election. No one including folk like Murray or Wings say that (or hope for it). 

With the never ending fallout of BREXIT for the foreseeable the SNP literally have to do nothing to look 'good'. 

That said the SNP have painted themselves into a corner on indyref2 and have developed zero paths to actually achieving independence. Boris ain't going to agree and if he goes do you think odious Gove will? The SNP don't campaign on it, extoll it or explain how it will work. Six years on and what more do you know about how the currency would work since one day after NO in 2014.

If the truth about what they did to AS really hits the public awareness I could see his supporters not turning out rather than voting for the opposition or anything that extreme. Which could still be very damaging . I think it was the SNP not turning out in 2017 that cost 20 seats so if that happened again it might have some impact but at worst it will be a reduced majority.

If Nicola goes it will be due to this internal scandal of Team Nicola's own making. 

This canary is getting light headed thats for sure, maybe my gut feeling just after brexit was correct even if it did/does sound crazy. 

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Just a thought here that demonstrates the clear scaremongering that went on by Better Together in 2014. We heard companies crawling out of the woodwork saying they'd pull out of Scotland if we voted Yes due to us o longer being in the EU with them insisting it was financially essential. Well here we are six years later and Brexit has been voted for AND no deal looks like a growing certainty. So where exactly are those companies now coming out and pulling out of the UK? Odd isn't it? Hopefully, those that voted No in 2014 let that sink and tells them how much they were lied to.

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5 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Just a thought here that demonstrates the clear scaremongering that went on by Better Together in 2014. We heard companies crawling out of the woodwork saying they'd pull out of Scotland if we voted Yes due to us o longer being in the EU with them insisting it was financially essential. Well here we are six years later and Brexit has been voted for AND no deal looks like a growing certainty. So where exactly are those companies now coming out and pulling out of the UK? Odd isn't it? Hopefully, those that voted No in 2014 let that sink and tells them how much they were lied to.

It was most telling to me was the £1,500 (or whatever it was) per head figure Scotland would lose per person by voting Yes in 2014. During the EU referendum, the exact same figure came up in relation to the UK voting to leave the EU - implying the issue was always EU membership, not whether Scotland was part of the UK. I honestly believe we'll see companies moving to Scotland from the rUK with a Yes vote now, simply because Scotland would be an English-speaking EU country and has shown itself to be more open to outsiders.

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5 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Just a thought here that demonstrates the clear scaremongering that went on by Better Together in 2014. We heard companies crawling out of the woodwork saying they'd pull out of Scotland if we voted Yes due to us o longer being in the EU with them insisting it was financially essential. Well here we are six years later and Brexit has been voted for AND no deal looks like a growing certainty. So where exactly are those companies now coming out and pulling out of the UK? Odd isn't it? Hopefully, those that voted No in 2014 let that sink and tells them how much they were lied to.

Apologies if this has already been posted but I found this survey about businesses quite encouraging. Only 1 in 5 believe Scottish independence presents a significant risk to them. 54 % disagreed that it would pose a significant risk. 
One in five were neutral or no opinion.
Only 4% thought Scotland would not be an independent country at some point. And 95 % would adapt to the consequences of an Independent Scotland. 
They really are not going to be able to use this bogey man in the same way next time 
 

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18763938.one-five-uk-business-execs-believe-scots-independence-poses-significant-risk-firms/

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Any snp members on here really need to start making their voice heard against NEC, i have been a silent member for years however this bunch of woke maniacs are going to tear the party apart if allowed,, as i have not been a active member regarding internal votes ect, i am not sure if it would be a case of voting them out at the next conference? Anyways its time to reclaim the party

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The seizure of the means

Posted on October 19, 2020 by Rev. Stuart Campbell

If there’s still anyone left reading this site who doubts that the SNP National Executive Committee is currently engaged in a coup against the membership of the party, meant to be a fait accompli by the time the NEC is up for re-election at the end of November, we’d urge you to read the extremely disturbing letter below from the Convener of the party’s Constituency Association (CA) in Dumbarton, which he’s attempting to circulate to local members against obstruction from the NEC (pictured), who have shut down the branch mailer system from party HQ to stop the CA speaking to its members.

dstalin.jpg

(We first saw it on Iain Lawson’s excellent blog, and are carrying out the request for it to be as widely distributed as possible.)

It’s long, so we’ve highlighted a couple of passages of particular interest.

 

“Dear Member

You may have received a communication from the National Secretary advising that the hustings organised by the CA will not now take place.

The National Executive of the Party has insisted that it will arrange a hustings.

The CA executive has been in constant discussion since Friday 16th October 2020 and met by Zoom this afternoon to respond to an email which I received late this morning from an employee of the Party, a Mr Chris Jones.

Following a further exchange of emails late this afternoon we were informed by Mr Jones acting on behalf of the National Secretary that our ‘event’ as he referred to it, must not go ahead.

I am instructed by the CA Executive to explain this matter to you.

When the National Executive Committee (NEC) issued its Candidate Vetting and Selection Rules (which can be read on mysnp.org) the Constituency Associations were excluded from the process except for the arranging of a hustings. Every other aspect of the selection process was handled by the NEC unlike in previous elections.

The CA organiser/ secretary emailed online members an invitation to a Zoom hustings for 19th October. You were invited to submit questions beforehand to raise with the candidates. We also indicated that we hoped to record the meeting so that those who couldn’t attend would be able to view the hustings in order to assess the nominees before voting.

Following that invitation it was a matter of some concern to the CA executive that around 140 of our members (who are not online) would not be part of the hustings or have access to a recording of it. It occurred to us that there would be insufficient time for each nominee to adequately answer the questions put to them as by that point we had received a large number of questions.

To ensure the widest distribution of (A) all seven presentations and (B) answers to members’ questions, the CA executive explored the possibility of an exclusive Question and Answer session of 15 minutes with each of the seven nominees. All of these sessions would be recorded UNEDITED and made available online to all the members with online access (around 950).

This recording could be viewed immediately after the last session on 19th October 2020. Sadly as the NEC has made no provision for those members without online access, your CA executive had made arrangements to transcribe each session into a written format and post copies to all our non-online members.

Until we had put in place the recording and transcription we couldn’t advise the membership of the proposed changes. In the meantime the sixty members who have indicated as of today a wish to be part of the hustings have received an acknowledgement from me.

On Thursday, when we were confident that our proposal for seven interviews, unedited recording and transcription could proceed I was authorised by the CA executive to email all nominees with our proposal. None of the nominees offered any objection to us.

On Friday afternoon I had a telephone call with Mr Chris Jones who advised me that we could not hold the hustings as he said that in his opinion it wasn’t a hustings and we had to adhere to the guidance set forth by the NEC.

I interrogated Mr Jones at some length. (A) why the National vetting and selection process was generally viewed as “a shambles” ? (B) what was his authority for his claim that NEC guidance was obligatory? (C) was he not aware that the dictionary definition of hustings includes campaign meetings involving one or more speeches? I(D) why was the NEC treating the members without online access with such disdain when the NEC had a means to include them?

Furthermore I asked him who were the complainants were. At first, he said members but strangely later in the conversation he admitted it wasn’t members but candidates. I asked which candidates, but he refused to name them. He said that the event had to be live so that the members could see the nominees’ answer in real time but failed to appreciate that as the seven sessions were being recorded our members would have even more opportunity to consider each nominees’ answers and would also be able to ask each nominee to clarify any point through the personal email and telephone number of each nominee which some nominees have already published.

He then volunteered that there were a few known ‘hotheads’ (his words) in our local membership who might concentrate their attack on one or two nominees over a certain issue which is currently the cause of heated debate within the Party and beyond. He insisted that a strong neutral chair was required.

I replied that members were entitled to have opinions and to challenge the nominees on any issue which could impact on their selection of a candidate. I also commented that if a nominee had to be protected from the scrutiny of party members it did not augur well for his or her prospects as our candidate in the cut and thrust of the election .

I explained to him that the CA executive has had to change its proposed hustings three times to accommodate the changes which the NEC had made to the vetting and selection process, and that our proposal for individual Q and A sessions with each nominee, would give them the opportunity to make their responses without interruption in order that all members could witness the nominees’ arguments. Indeed the CA executive’s proposals ensured one topic, however important, would not dominate each interview. As the interviewer I had made it clear that I HAVE NOT AND WOULD NOT voice any personal preference for any nominee. I have already undertaken to abstain from voting in the selection process to ensure complete impartiality.

In the course of the conversation Mr Jones volunteered that the conversation was causing some amusement in the SNP HQ office. Members can draw their own conclusion as to whether this was an appropriate matter to be the subject of some amusement amongst SNP employees who are paid through members’ subscriptions when the highly important selection contest for our constituency in the forthcoming Independence Election was being discussed.

Sadly Mr Jones threatened to request the National Secretary to arrange a hustings if the CA executive did not change to the one which Mr Jones indicated was required by the NEC.

I indicated that I’d seek the views of the CA executive and revert to him.

I immediately contacted the CA executive and over the weekend there has been much discussion and outrage at the attempt by the NEC to interfere with our practical proposals to offer all our members an opportunity to engage in the democratic process. I have still not received any complaint or adverse comment from any of the nominees to our proposal.

Late this afternoon I was instructed by the CA executive to advise Mr Jones that the CA would not deny our members the widest involvement in the selection process and change the format. This I did.

I then received a response from Mr Jones, on behalf of the National Secretary, NOT to proceed with the hustings tomorrow evening and that the NEC would arrange its own hustings under what he termed a ’neutral’ chair.

I regret any inconvenience to members and the nominees as we all wish to ensure a fair and informed choice when selecting our candidate. However the CA executive is firmly and unanimously of the view that manipulation of the process is afoot. We strongly urge all members to register for the NEC hustings and submit robust questioning on the topics which matter to you.

As you know the AGM of the CA which was delayed as a result of the Covid 19 crisis, is taking place shortly . If delegates disagree with the actions of the CA executive they are free to vote for others to replace them.

Equally National Conference at the end of November will give all branch and CA delegates the opportunity to register their satisfaction or otherwise with the membership of the NEC. Please use your vote to maintain the democratic rights of all members.

Yours for Scotland

Graeme McCormick
Convener”

The last paragraph there is the crucial and heartbreaking one. Because by the time party members can express a judgement on the actions of the NEC, it’ll be too late. The job will be done and the election will be stuffed with woke-faction candidates put in place through procedural chicanery, who as legislators will effectively control the party and the government from Holyrood regardless of who’s in the NEC at that point. They’ll have different faces, but it’ll be the same coup.

As so often with the New SNP, this site is reminded of a key quote from “1984”:

oligarchy.jpg

The fight is happening right now, readers. Don’t look away.

.

NB For the avoidance of doubt, Wings has no preference as to who should be the SNP candidate for Dumbarton. Of the seven people who’ve passed vetting and are seeking the nomination we’ve only heard of two – Math Campbell-Sturgess and Toni Guigliano – and we have no strong feelings about either of them. The other five – Karen Conaghan, Scott Lafferty, Lorna Douglas, Robert Thomson and Sid Khan – we know literally nothing about except their names.

https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-seizure-of-the-means/

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3 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Any snp members on here really need to start making their voice heard against NEC, i have been a silent member for years however this bunch of woke maniacs are going to tear the party apart if allowed,, as i have not been a active member regarding internal votes ect, i am not sure if it would be a case of voting them out at the next conference? Anyways its time to reclaim the party

Agree 100%. 

 

Been reading the wings stuff in disbelief.  Just hiw rotten is it ? And how many are complicit in this. After 50+ years of support how the hell did it come to  this that a few "deviant" enablers are screwing my hopes of independence?

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1 hour ago, mariokempes56 said:

Agree 100%. 

 

Been reading the wings stuff in disbelief.  Just hiw rotten is it ? And how many are complicit in this. After 50+ years of support how the hell did it come to  this that a few "deviant" enablers are screwing my hopes of independence?

It's a really, really strange coincidence that as soon as the polls start to show a sustained majority in favour of independence, the political party created to achieve that aim - the one that has been around since the 1930s - suddenly starts to show signs of tearing itself apart.

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4 minutes ago, scotlad said:

It's a really, really strange coincidence that as soon as the polls start to show a sustained majority in favour of independence, the political party created to achieve that aim - the one that has been around since the 1930s - suddenly starts to show signs of tearing itself apart.

There are plants, 100%,,time is running out for them To Save the union, the anti has been upped

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7 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Do you agree with the power the NEC have?

Bit of a random reply. Not sure what that’s got to do with the article.  

Should the NEC have power?  Well yes, as it’s directly elected by the membership.   Is the NEC currently using its power to the benefit of the wider party or for a narrow faction within it?

I’ve no idea, although it does seem to be generating a lot of heat and very little light.  

Also a lot of the most vocal critics are themselves the usual suspects who have their own pretty obvious agendas.  Most of who are not party members but seem to think they have some right to tell the party how they’ve should be operating.

One thing is for sure that the party executive and management isn’t handling it at all well - by that I mean Jackson’s Entry and not the party leadership.  

Conference should be interesting next month though.  If the strength of opposition to certain NEC members is as big as is being claimed then they should be voted out.  

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