Jump to content

Recommended Posts

14 minutes ago, Bonny79 said:

Brexit happening this month 

That hangover free drug of yours will be available long before we actually leave the EU.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

That hangover free drug of yours will be available long before we actually leave the EU.

Hope so cause I have a hangover today... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And Scotland begins the decade on top of the sporting world. Well done, Peter Wright.

Surely such a display of sporting dominance finally puts it beyond all doubt that Scotland can hold its own on the world stage and pretty much seals the case for independence. Inevitably, this will delay Indy Ref 2. Boris won’t have liked watching that.
 

my wife has just told me to stop drinking. Bye.

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some encouraging stuff from Labour types today.

Whilst Monica Lennon and Neil Finlday are still against independence, it's encouraging that they are looking up from the blinkered Labour position. Ged Killen and Paul Sweeney - who both lost their seats - have both made noises about that Scotland voted differently, and the constitution question should be looked at.

Lennon is basically advocating what Murdo Fraser sugggested about 15 years ago when the Scots Tories were in the doldrums - indpendent party, but vote with the 'sister' party in London for Westminister issues, but not soley and remain independent.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/its-time-scottish-labour-takes-21203100?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

No idea if he is a ''top'' chief or what a ''top union chief'' is, but that seems to suggest he's highly-ranked/regarded. Again, it's not a Yes vote, but its encouraging that people who may even be on the opposite side in a referendum and willing to at least think outside the box and see the bigger picture.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18135395.top-union-chief-calls-labour-back-indyref2/

You do feel Labour are finished. Even if they started up as a social democratic party who are neutral on the constitution, people will have the Greens or SNP to vote for. The SNP played a blinder in winning over in 07 and 11 softly-softly Labour voters and then the 35% of Laboru voters who then backed independence and many the SNP since then.

The Tories were done 15-20 years ago, but had a second wind so I'm not saying Labour are finished in Scotland, but it almost feels like that. There's no longer the shock of them losing places like Glasgow, Fife, Lothians, Invercylde etc - all natural SNP hotbeds now for the past 10 years.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, weekevie04 said:

Some encouraging stuff from Labour types today.

Whilst Monica Lennon and Neil Finlday are still against independence, it's encouraging that they are looking up from the blinkered Labour position. Ged Killen and Paul Sweeney - who both lost their seats - have both made noises about that Scotland voted differently, and the constitution question should be looked at.

Lennon is basically advocating what Murdo Fraser sugggested about 15 years ago when the Scots Tories were in the doldrums - indpendent party, but vote with the 'sister' party in London for Westminister issues, but not soley and remain independent.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/its-time-scottish-labour-takes-21203100?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

No idea if he is a ''top'' chief or what a ''top union chief'' is, but that seems to suggest he's highly-ranked/regarded. Again, it's not a Yes vote, but its encouraging that people who may even be on the opposite side in a referendum and willing to at least think outside the box and see the bigger picture.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18135395.top-union-chief-calls-labour-back-indyref2/

You do feel Labour are finished. Even if they started up as a social democratic party who are neutral on the constitution, people will have the Greens or SNP to vote for. The SNP played a blinder in winning over in 07 and 11 softly-softly Labour voters and then the 35% of Laboru voters who then backed independence and many the SNP since then.

The Tories were done 15-20 years ago, but had a second wind so I'm not saying Labour are finished in Scotland, but it almost feels like that. There's no longer the shock of them losing places like Glasgow, Fife, Lothians, Invercylde etc - all natural SNP hotbeds now for the past 10 years.

 

Well even a non-Scots Labour devotee in Ken Livingston felt Scottish Labour should break away from the Westminster branch during the 2015 General Election Results show when Labour were in a similar place left with only one seat in Scotland. For me it would be a no brainer in that they should be taking a much softer stance on independence. If they continue in their stance of a stern no to independence they will continue to alienate themselves from almost half of the electorate - BIG mistake.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, weekevie04 said:

Some encouraging stuff from Labour types today.

Whilst Monica Lennon and Neil Finlday are still against independence, it's encouraging that they are looking up from the blinkered Labour position. Ged Killen and Paul Sweeney - who both lost their seats - have both made noises about that Scotland voted differently, and the constitution question should be looked at.

Lennon is basically advocating what Murdo Fraser sugggested about 15 years ago when the Scots Tories were in the doldrums - indpendent party, but vote with the 'sister' party in London for Westminister issues, but not soley and remain independent.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/its-time-scottish-labour-takes-21203100?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

No idea if he is a ''top'' chief or what a ''top union chief'' is, but that seems to suggest he's highly-ranked/regarded. Again, it's not a Yes vote, but its encouraging that people who may even be on the opposite side in a referendum and willing to at least think outside the box and see the bigger picture.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18135395.top-union-chief-calls-labour-back-indyref2/

You do feel Labour are finished. Even if they started up as a social democratic party who are neutral on the constitution, people will have the Greens or SNP to vote for. The SNP played a blinder in winning over in 07 and 11 softly-softly Labour voters and then the 35% of Laboru voters who then backed independence and many the SNP since then.

The Tories were done 15-20 years ago, but had a second wind so I'm not saying Labour are finished in Scotland, but it almost feels like that. There's no longer the shock of them losing places like Glasgow, Fife, Lothians, Invercylde etc - all natural SNP hotbeds now for the past 10 years.

 

Just to be clear, no-one in Labour, in public at least, is saying they should come out in favour of independence or even be neutral on the subject.   In fact what's brought about this intervention from Monica Lennon is that she feels the Scottish Party's opposition to independence was being undermined by the UK leadership.  She feels they should have been even more anti-independence than the UK party has let them be, particularly in the last election.   I'm not sure I follow the argument that not being able to out-Tory the Tories is what's hurting them in Scotland,but that seems to be what they think, as far as the constitution is concerned at least.

What is encouraging though is the shift towards it being something that should be decided in Holyrood and Scotland and not vetoed by Westminster.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This will probably appear in massive font as it is copied and paste from a paywall on an iphone. 

Even unionists are beginning to think again about Scottish independence

January 4 2020, The Times

At the Auld Acquaintance Cairn near Gretna the messages on the stones made depressing reading for anyone holding the notion of a United Kingdom dear to their heart.

“Flower of Scotland — it’s time to see your likes again” was daubed on one slate. Another was printed with what seemed to be a sizeable chunk of the recent SNP manifesto, referencing the party’s apparently generous pensions policy. Beside it, a smaller pebble had just enough room for the Gaelic “Saor Alba”, but not for its translation, “Free Scotland”.

The original cairn, a pile of 100,000 stones on the border between Scotland and England, was assembled in the weeks before the 2014 independence referendum.

It was a moving expression, etched out in red, white and blue slogans, of loyalty to a greater Britain, “united in love, not divided by a line on paper” as one of the myriad messages put it then.

These latest stones, of course, are the work of a few “Yessers”, perhaps even a single fifth columnist, determined to end the 300-year-old union with England. But in the aftermath of the general election, the remainder of the cairn, its patriotic colours washed away in the rain, is just as symbolic of the changing mood.

Opinion polls in Scotland show higher levels of support for independence than a year ago, with one recent survey suggesting it is the majority view. Analysis suggests somewhere between 10 and 15 per cent of former unionist opinion has already accepted the argument for Scotland to go it alone.

Change is in the air, and with SNP strategists targeting a “soft unionist” middle-class vote, there is already a marked shift in opinion. Last month in Stirling the SNP unseated Stephen Kerr, the sitting Conservative. That particular Tory disaster was little to do with losing the working-class vote, according to party insiders. Instead, it seems voters in the affluent Bridge of Allan and Dunblane — places where footballers and tennis stars dwell — were not prepared to walk into a polling station and put a cross next to a party led by Boris Johnson.

The same trend is evident at the heart of the establishment. In one of Edinburgh’s fine Edwardian pubs, a former top-ranking UK media executive, who wished to remain anonymous, made clear that he had lost faith in Westminster delivering for Scotland.

“Look at the offer we’ve been made,” he said. “We get the Bullingdon Club, we’re hauled out of Europe, we get a government with no clue about how to address the problems of the NHS, of poverty, housing and so on. But apparently, it’s just great to have a shouty guy with tousled hair as PM. The whole package is so lacking in ambition, so inevitably a failure.”

One after another, a succession of his well-connected friends, all wilting unionists, had made the same kind of point to him, he added.

“People are saying, ‘Why don’t we start preparing at least, to see what it will be like to be independent?’ Not on the basis of the jiggery-pokery of the [Alex] Salmond manifesto [from 2014], but serious grown-up stuff, something that accepts that if you really were going to be independent, you are going to go down before you go up.

“At least we would be in control of your own destiny, which patently we are not. England coming out of the European community is for 25, maybe 40 years, and that is just too long.”

The Conservatives, triumphant in England, won only 25 per cent of the vote north of the border and Mr Johnson’s pledge to “get Brexit done” will be achieved despite the 62 per cent of Scots who voted to remain in the EU. But there are still plenty of people who continue to speak up for the Union.

A few miles east of the Auld Acquaintance Cairn Patrick Laing, 66, was flying a Saltire from an old apple tree outside his house at Scotch Dyke, his way of marking a border that otherwise, he felt, should remain invisible.

“Together we are strong,” Mr Laing said. “Once Nicola Sturgeon stops shouting about independence, people and industry will start moving up here. We have an airport at Carlisle, and a motorway right through the area and lots of labour. I am glad we are getting out of Europe. We need to put the Great back into Britain.”

At Eyemouth, a fishing port eight miles north of Berwick-upon-Tweed, voters helped return John Lamont, one of Scotland’s six Tory MPs. Johnny Johnston, 77, a fisherman and former harbour master, was proud to tell me he had voted for Mr Lamont and for Brexit. He felt that the EU had been disastrous for the white fish trade. “It was the lifeblood of little places like this and the heart of this town is barely beating,” Mr Johnston said. “There are hundreds of places like this right around the coast, barely existing. What has Scotland got? Whisky and that’s about all. I don’t think it’s necessary to split.”

But even in Conservative Eyemouth, the independence drums are beating. James Cook is the owner of DR Collin, a business exporting £60 million of live langoustines to France. He is concerned about the outcome of negotiations with the EU. His company employs 220 people and is served by 250 boats, mainly registered in communities along the east coast.

A hard Brexit “would be a horror story” because if French boats were denied access to UK water, they would bar British producers from continental markets, he said. “It could turn commercial businesses in our sector into loss-makers overnight,” Mr Cook added.

The political and economic alternative, an independent Scotland trading with Europe, held no terrors for Mr Cook. “It is a matter of managing the deficit and managing expectations,” he said,

“We are making history here, this is huge. In five, ten years, people will recognise what a huge shift this was. We have to secure a better future for our youth. If things go wrong [in the Brexit negotiation], without a doubt Scotland will become a bit more radicalised and vociferous.”

That view was echoed in Edinburgh by the anonymous former unionist diehard. “Come the end of next year, when the trade negotiations with the EU are not complete and the administration begins to run into trouble, folk really will begin to gear up for independence here. This is no longer about politics. It’s about the kind of society we want to have.”

 

Discover

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Enjoyed it today, pain in the erse getting there all ayrshire trains cancelled this morning, taxis buses etc but would like to think more than 80k.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

The bbc will say there were 14 people there 

At least 🤣

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Lairdyfaeinverclyde said:

A great turnout today for AUOB march in Glasgow despite the shitty weather and travel hassles. Organisers estimate 80,000?

That is a fantastic effort especially  given those conditions. Radio Clyde had it as their main news headline this morning . 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, TDYER63 said:

That is a fantastic effort especially  given those conditions. Radio Clyde had it as their main news headline this morning . 

Think it's headlining BBC Scotland news surprisingly. Unfortunately I couldn't attend  but watched a live stream and was surprised with the turnout.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I seen a few republican flags dotted through social media, i have no idea if these have been photoshopped however it’s something that need ls kept clear of the yes movement 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

I seen a few republican flags dotted through social media, i have no idea if these have been photoshopped however it’s something that need ls kept clear of the yes movement 

Lion Rampant ? or you mean Irish Republican ? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

I seen a few republican flags dotted through social media, i have no idea if these have been photoshopped however it’s something that need ls kept clear of the yes 

I certainly never seen any....but then again you can only see what's around you. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, euan2020 said:

Lion Rampant ? or you mean Irish Republican ? 

Lion Rampant would be the complete opposite of republican.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

I seen a few republican flags dotted through social media, i have no idea if these have been photoshopped however it’s something that need ls kept clear of the yes movement 

Don't really see an issue with ROI flags? Watching it today I seen, welsh flags, Catalonian flags, euro flags plus others. To me the more flags from other countries is a positive and supportive. If people make an issue with ROI flags then that say's more about them. Not having a go at you I get why you commented on this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Lairdyfaeinverclyde said:

Don't really see an issue with ROI flags? Watching it today I seen, welsh flags, Catalonian flags, euro flags plus others. To me the more flags from other countries is a positive and supportive. If people make an issue with ROI flags then that say's more about them. Not having a go at you I get why you commented on this.

If it's just ROI flags then there's no problem with that whatsoever.   One of the things that the organisers do is to encourage people to bring along flags of their own nationality which is part of the reason why there are so many different flags there.  It's all about demonstrating that its an inclusive movement and not some form of ethnic based nationalism that opponents try to smear people with.    I doubt that anyone who is offended by seeing an ROI tricolour at a Yes march would be likely to support Indy anyway.   

If its flags with more paramilitary overtones then those are totally unacceptable - but I don't think there's ever been any suggestion of those and don't think they'd last 10 seconds before they'd be taken down by other marchers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, aaid said:

If it's just ROI flags then there's no problem with that whatsoever.   One of the things that the organisers do is to encourage people to bring along flags of their own nationality which is part of the reason why there are so many different flags there.  It's all about demonstrating that its an inclusive movement and not some form of ethnic based nationalism that opponents try to smear people with.    I doubt that anyone who is offended by seeing an ROI tricolour at a Yes march would be likely to support Indy anyway.   

If its flags with more paramilitary overtones then those are totally unacceptable - but I don't think there's ever been any suggestion of those and don't think they'd last 10 seconds before they'd be taken down by other marchers.

👍

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...



×
×
  • Create New...