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7 minutes ago, aaid said:

It's extremely unlikely that people will find any political party which represents all their views and opinions.  Al you can do is to find the one that's closest to your views and which doesn't hold any position with which you vehemently disagree and support them and either put up with the bits you don't like or look to influence and change from within.

if you can't do that then move away from party based politics and get involved in issue based politics instead.

if you still don't find anything that fits then start something with like minded people - assuming you can find anyone.

Then again, you could just moan about it on the Internet. 

All very reasonable. 

I’m not moaning, well not anymore than anyone else on here. 

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15 minutes ago, exile said:

There is a big problem for British democracy with the fact that the UK voted for Brexit and 3 years later, it hasn't happened yet. No matter what you think of Brexit, it is a problem for democracy that it has not happened and that gets a lot of people angry and disillusioned, and it means that Westminster parliamentary democracy is tearing itself apart as well as the political parties themselves. I mean, the fact "Brexit hasn't happened" means that all sort of extraordinary and unprecedented actions become normalised, so that we get prorogation, court cases, PMs threatening to defy the law, etc. etc. and it seems to be escalating.

In some ways, it would have been better if Cameron had pushed the Article 50 button the day after the referendum as he promised, or if Theresa May had been enabled to pass the Withdrawal Agreement without parliamentary agreement, because, with hindsight, we would be out of the EU by now, with parliamentary democracy intact, we would be 'just' coping with being out of the EU (and maybe fighting to get back into it) and not coping with a disintegrating parliamentary system,  with rogue PMs defying the law, tearing up the rules or rewriting them, having to get the Queen involved, etc. 

(This is from a general UK democratic perspective and how Scotland manages to take advantage of the meltdown is another question....)

In 1997, the devolution referendum in Wales was won by a really small margin, 50.3% Yes 49.7% No.   The then Labour Government knew that if they were to make a success of id evolution they would have to get those on board involved.  To do that they set up genuinely cross party structure to make sure all were represented and involved in shaping what devolution would look like.  20 years on, I'm not saying that people don't think the Welsh Assembly is perfect but there certainly doesn't seem to be any calls for it to be scrapped and if anything there seems to be an appetite for further devolution of powers.

In 2016, Theresa May chose to interpret the vote in a very narrow and extreme way, didn't bring in any other parties into discussions and seemed to be more focussed on keeping the Tory party together.

Had she taken a different approach and looked to get a consensus view - which would be something like Norway - then probably no-one would've been totally happy but most would have been prepared to accept it as a compromise.  The deal would've gone through and we've had left.

Personally I view the last three years as a failure of government not parliament.   

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25 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

All very reasonable. 

I’m not moaning, well not anymore than anyone else on here. 

It was more of a general point not directed at you personally, you at least appear engaged even though you appear to have some unusual views.  

More at those who do nothing but complain but expect someone else to do everything. 

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16 minutes ago, Lairdyfaeinverclyde said:

Another great turnout in Perth today for AUOB march, estimated 20,000. 

Sad people. They would rather protest other people's votes/decisions than come up with something of their own. 

 

You don't see the other lot protesting the libtards when they win something. 

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30 minutes ago, Lairdyfaeinverclyde said:

Another great turnout in Perth today for AUOB march, estimated 20,000. 

Indeed. No doubt even more at Edinburgh next month which I will be at. I wonder if that pathetic band of half a dozen yoons using a megaphone to heckle will be there again? No doubt he'll get drowned out again. Wonder if he will have that rag on? The union jack jacket?

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5 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Indeed. No doubt even more at Edinburgh next month which I will be at. I wonder if that pathetic band of half a dozen yoons using a megaphone to heckle will be there again? No doubt he'll get drowned out again. Wonder if he will have that rag on? The union jack jacket?

The hecklers got heckled???   Karma

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26 minutes ago, bonny78 said:

Sad people. They would rather protest other people's votes/decisions than come up with something of their own. 

 

You don't see the other lot protesting the libtards when they win something. 

 

Edited by Lairdyfaeinverclyde

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11 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Indeed. No doubt even more at Edinburgh next month which I will be at. I wonder if that pathetic band of half a dozen yoons using a megaphone to heckle will be there again? No doubt he'll get drowned out again. Wonder if he will have that rag on? The union jack jacket?

Seen the shirt in Glasgow last year. Hopefully be in Edinburgh as well.

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8 minutes ago, Lairdyfaeinverclyde said:

People have the right to protest. Your political party preference are a protest party so whats the difference?

Mainstream now.  - thanks to undemocratic decisions previous. 

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4 hours ago, aaid said:

In 1997, the devolution referendum in Wales was won by a really small margin, 50.3% Yes 49.7% No.   The then Labour Government knew that if they were to make a success of id evolution they would have to get those on board involved.  To do that they set up genuinely cross party structure to make sure all were represented and involved in shaping what devolution would look like.  20 years on, I'm not saying that people don't think the Welsh Assembly is perfect but there certainly doesn't seem to be any calls for it to be scrapped and if anything there seems to be an appetite for further devolution of powers.

In 2016, Theresa May chose to interpret the vote in a very narrow and extreme way, didn't bring in any other parties into discussions and seemed to be more focussed on keeping the Tory party together.

Had she taken a different approach and looked to get a consensus view - which would be something like Norway - then probably no-one would've been totally happy but most would have been prepared to accept it as a compromise.  The deal would've gone through and we've had left.

Personally I view the last three years as a failure of government not parliament.   

I pretty much agree with that. Arguably the fairest solution would a "52:48" solution, outside the EU but as close to it as the slim majority would justify (single market, customs union). I agree that May, by insisting on a Conservative party solution, and not a cross-party consensus, drove things against that.  We'd have left, and now there would be two groups calling for another referendum - the ultra Remainers and ultra Brexiteers. May's failure can be seen as a failure of her government and the whole thing a Tory failure.

The point about parliament was not to blame parliamentary democracy but that it is being strained and in danger of being trashed by the tug of war between the two sides that have polarised (a polarisation that can be blamed on the Tory government); and that the threat to democracy is now arguably more serious than Brexit itself. It's in danger of going beyond laughing at the Tory and Labour parties falling apart, unless Scotland can get out of the mess. 

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On ‎9‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 8:59 PM, Eisegerwind said:

It's the idea that you've managed to get yourself off your fat lazy arse and exercise the democratic right that you have...

I agree.

I think there is something about the act of actually walking down to the Polling Station and voting. 

 

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You could substitute Scotland for Northern Ireland in this and it wouldn't look hugely different. 

 

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12 hours ago, aaid said:

You could substitute Scotland for Northern Ireland in this and it wouldn't look hugely different. 

 

Very similar trends indeed!

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It would be the end of Scottish independence if NI either rightly rejoins Ireland as one country, or even goes it alone. 

Mot really would be the ultimate double blow if they managed it. 

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58 minutes ago, kumnio said:

It would be the end of Scottish independence if NI either rightly rejoins Ireland as one country, or even goes it alone. 

Mot really would be the ultimate double blow if they managed it. 

Why would it be the end of Scottish independence? The end of hopes of Scottish independence will only happen if the urge and sheer weight of numbers backing it falls back to a pre 1980s level of say 20% and I cannot see that happening considering the awfulness of Westminster governing.

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29 minutes ago, kumnio said:

A significant number of bigoted bitter unionists would flee NI and come here IMO. 

I never thought of that but my point still stands. As long as we have almost half of the population either supportive or open to the idea of independence the dteam wont die.

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2 hours ago, kumnio said:

A significant number of bigoted bitter unionists would flee NI and come here IMO. 

They won't.  You can look at it as people who say they'll move to England if Scotland becomes independent, empty threats. 

Personally, II think that when either Scotland or Northern Ireland "goes" then the other will follow pretty quickly.   

Ideally you'd have the Border Poll in Ireland and IndyRef2 on the same day.

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56 minutes ago, aaid said:

They won't.  

They will during marching season, Rangers games and any other sectarian activity 

Far more so than now due to easier access 

And vice versa 

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1 hour ago, Ally Bongo said:

They will during marching season, Rangers games and any other sectarian activity 

Far more so than now due to easier access 

And vice versa 

Kumnio appears to be talking about hundreds of thousands moving permanently to Scotland, not a few thousand popping over for the  weekend. 

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I would agree with Kev above. A large amount of the maddest orangest cunts from NI will simply come here if NI unites with SI. (Like Mad Dog Adair did when he was chased out.) Face it the only country even slightly like home to these nutters is Scotland... you should think a lot about how that is even possible.

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