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26 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Weren’t the postal votes something ridiculous in favour of NO?

Yes thats correct, on the day votes yes won however postal votes were massively in favour of no

Edited by hampden_loon2878

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8 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Yes thats correct, on the day votes yes won however postal votes were massively in favour of no

Never realised that yes had more votes on the day, you’ll never prove it but it was likely rigged 

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13 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Yes thats correct, on the day votes yes won however postal votes were massively in favour of no

ehhh excuse me mr loon... are you saying if we take out the postal votes it would have been YES?

That it was a NO because of the super dodgy postal votes?

Is that what you are saying? 

I just want to be really sure before my head explodes.

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On 6/10/2019 at 11:40 AM, PapofGlencoe said:

she's not asked for a s30 order.  she's not named a date. she's not said it will happen.  

I'll go and put my cross in the box if it comes round but i'm not holding my breath.

maybe im going through a change in my opinions.  i don't particularly care as much as i did about it and feel a lot of people are the same. 

I actually feel the opposite. I wasn't at all involved in Indyref, my main consideration when making my decision was simply whether Scotland could financially make a go of it on our own, I had next to no political awareness.  I felt we could so voted Yes. 

Since taking more notice of the actual politics I can honestly say I now feel stronger about independence than I did back in 2014. FFS , what an utter shambles the UK is. Whatever anyone thinks of the Scottish Government at least they are holding themselves together through this shitfest. 

We are crashing towards an inevitable No deal Brexit, a government without a PM ( worse still fookin Boris Johnson as the front runner) and potentially another General Election. 

GDP on Monday was diabolical,  car production dropped 24% as factories closed in April thinking Brexit would be upon us. Err naw, sorry , we got that wrong.

Nobody has a fookin clue what is happening. Everybody is just hoping someone else knows what is happening .  They don't. 

It is a complete and utter mess,  meanwhile we have the Tories going through a beauty pageant trying to convince us which one of them is the least ugly . 

Who seriously wants to remain in this Union.  

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28 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Yes thats correct, on the day votes yes won however postal votes were massively in favour of no

Don't underestimate the number of old codgers getting their votes in before heading off to the Costa del Sol for the winter.

There is however more than a whiff of suspicion in those postal votes.  

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1 hour ago, thplinth said:

ehhh excuse me mr loon... are you saying if we take out the postal votes it would have been YES?

That it was a NO because of the super dodgy postal votes?

Is that what you are saying? 

I just want to be really sure before my head explodes.

Nah min, thats just how the voting pattern worked, i am not saying it was rigged. 

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1 hour ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Never realised that yes had more votes on the day, you’ll never prove it but it was likely rigged 

That'll be why no exit polls were allowed. The discrepancy would've been too obvious.  There's been exit polls at every other vote except this one.  Funny that.

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9 minutes ago, daviebee said:

That'll be why no exit polls were allowed. The discrepancy would've been too obvious.  There's been exit polls at every other vote except this one.  Funny that.

Makes sense. Nobody in any position of power wanted it, rigging an election wouldn’t be difficult. 

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Just now, ParisInAKilt said:

Makes sense. Nobody in any position of power wanted it, rigging an election wouldn’t be difficult. 

And when an English High Court judge says there are no systems in place to deal with postal voting fraud...

If there's a 2nd indyref and the SG agree to allow postal voting we're as well not bothering our arses.

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2 minutes ago, daviebee said:

And when an English High Court judge says there are no systems in place to deal with postal voting fraud...

If there's a 2nd indyref and the SG agree to allow postal voting we're as well not bothering our arses.

Even without a postal vote it can be rigged if they really don’t want it to happen. 

Makes you wonder about Brexit ..:

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Having just watched the latest edition of Ruth cunt Davidsons flip flop, I can’t wait to see her get politically stabbed in the back, not win her seat, get badly sunburned or whatever. 

She is an utterly contemptible bastard, even amongst Tories she stands out as the cunts cunt. 

If she thought it would help her win votes, or power from those above, she would promote homophobia, or sexist behaviour. She is nothing but a self interested witch. 

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9 hours ago, daviebee said:

That'll be why no exit polls were allowed. The discrepancy would've been too obvious.  There's been exit polls at every other vote except this one.  Funny that.

I don't think there were exit polls for the EU referendum either?

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1 minute ago, Toepoke said:

I don't think there were exit polls for the EU referendum either?

That was only because other countries still had to vote.

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7 minutes ago, mariokempes56 said:

That was only because other countries still had to vote.

EU referendum not EU elections 

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12 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Yes thats correct, on the day votes yes won however postal votes were massively in favour of no

 

10 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Nah min, thats just how the voting pattern worked, i am not saying it was rigged. 

Ok putting any question of rigging to one side... are you saying above if we ignore the postal votes then YES would have had the majority? It sure looks like it but I'd like to be sure. I did not know this.

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47 minutes ago, thplinth said:

 

Ok putting any question of rigging to one side... are you saying above if we ignore the postal votes then YES would have had the majority? It sure looks like it but I'd like to be sure. I did not know this.

Reads that way to me too

I'm not sure why this wasn't made more of at the time if so

Where are such statistics available?

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I seriously doubt that there were more Yes votes on the day and that it was postal votes that swung it.   There were something like 700,000 people registered for a postal vote and even assuming they all voted, you are looking at something like 80% of those votes to be No to give you the result on the day.

Even if that was the case, so what?

If you look at the sort of people who regularly have a postal vote - I don't think you can draw any conclusions on people who took one for the referendum only because, for example, they were on holiday - then they are people who either cannot guarantee they will be around to vote or who have difficulty in getting to the polling station.   So that would be people whose jobs take them away at short notice, people who live in rural areas and the elderly.   These are not Yes-friendly demographics, so it wouldn't be a surprise if there were more No postal votes, but I'd be amazed if it were to the level people are suggesting.   Funnily enough, there were rumours circulating on the night of the EU referendum that Leave had done well on the postal votes - similar demographic I'd argue.

This got legs on the night of the referendum when Ruth Davidson said that she knew from the postal votes that No would win, that was interpreted as somehow Better Together were up to something underhand.

That was a stupid thing for her to say as it gave the game away to an extent and got her in some bother - points to her lack of political acumen.

Postal votes are opened prior to the count to check that they are valid but they are counted along with the other votes once the polls close.   This is done in front of party or campaign representatives to ensure that everything is above board.   No official count takes place and the agents aren't allowed to take tallies.  However, especially with only two options on the ballot paper it's impossible not to get a feel for how things are going.   I've no doubt Yes were getting similar feedback.

There is scope for electoral fraud with postal voting - as there is with personation -  but I'd argue that's only the case when its targeted and when a couple of hundred votes will make a difference, for example in a council election, it would be next to impossible for a country wide referendum.

If people are looking for the reasons why Yes lost, there's a much more simpler explanation, the arguments weren't good enough to convince enough people to vote for independence.

However, if you prefer tin hat conspiracy theories then knock yourselves out.

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Mind that guy (admittedly he seemed a bit unhinged) who posted the video with bin bags full of ballot papers with Yes votes on them?...

 

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1 hour ago, thplinth said:

 

Ok putting any question of rigging to one side... are you saying above if we ignore the postal votes then YES would have had the majority? It sure looks like it but I'd like to be sure. I did not know this.

Maybe i worded it poorly, the question was asked about the postal votes being massively in favour of no, it was more of an answer than a statement, folk can make their own conclusions regarding it, it would be interesting however to look at the postal votes vs on the day voting in any other referendums to so if its usual for there to be such a large variation between postals and on the day votes.

personally do i think the vote was rigged? No as i think the yes camp would have some handle on the whole process to an extent, possibly small scale individual cases.  

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14 minutes ago, aaid said:

I seriously doubt that there were more Yes votes on the day and that it was postal votes that swung it.   There were something like 700,000 people registered for a postal vote and even assuming they all voted, you are looking at something like 80% of those votes to be No to give you the result on the day.

Even if that was the case, so what?

If you look at the sort of people who regularly have a postal vote - I don't think you can draw any conclusions on people who took one for the referendum only because, for example, they were on holiday - then they are people who either cannot guarantee they will be around to vote or who have difficulty in getting to the polling station.   So that would be people whose jobs take them away at short notice, people who live in rural areas and the elderly.   These are not Yes-friendly demographics, so it wouldn't be a surprise if there were more No postal votes, but I'd be amazed if it were to the level people are suggesting.   Funnily enough, there were rumours circulating on the night of the EU referendum that Leave had done well on the postal votes - similar demographic I'd argue.

This got legs on the night of the referendum when Ruth Davidson said that she knew from the postal votes that No would win, that was interpreted as somehow Better Together were up to something underhand.

That was a stupid thing for her to say as it gave the game away to an extent and got her in some bother - points to her lack of political acumen.

Postal votes are opened prior to the count to check that they are valid but they are counted along with the other votes once the polls close.   This is done in front of party or campaign representatives to ensure that everything is above board.   No official count takes place and the agents aren't allowed to take tallies.  However, especially with only two options on the ballot paper it's impossible not to get a feel for how things are going.   I've no doubt Yes were getting similar feedback.

There is scope for electoral fraud with postal voting - as there is with personation -  but I'd argue that's only the case when its targeted and when a couple of hundred votes will make a difference, for example in a council election, it would be next to impossible for a country wide referendum.

If people are looking for the reasons why Yes lost, there's a much more simpler explanation, the arguments weren't good enough to convince enough people to vote for independence.

However, if you prefer tin hat conspiracy theories then knock yourselves out.

Ooóh, you're in trouble,you said conspiracy.

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7 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Maybe i worded it poorly, the question was asked about the postal votes being massively in favour of no, it was more of an answer than a statement, folk can make their own conclusions regarding it, it would be interesting however to look at the postal votes vs on the day voting in any other referendums to so if its usual for there to be such a large variation between postals and on the day votes.

personally do i think the vote was rigged? No as i think the yes camp would have some handle on the whole process to an extent, possibly small scale individual cases.  

I am still not sure if you are saying they did or didn't (tilt a 'postal votes excluded overall YES' into a 'postal votes included overall NO'). If you don't know that is fine obviously, it was just the way you expressed it, sounded like you were saying they did.

Be interesting to see those numbers on postal votes and their size and breakdown versus the non postal votes if they are published anywhere. 

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“Conspiracies” have been proven true throughout the years.

Aaid is right that there is reasons why YES lost but I don’t think voter fraud is beyond the realms of possibility. 

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20 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

“Conspiracies” have been proven true throughout the years.

Aaid is right that there is reasons why YES lost but I don’t think voter fraud is beyond the realms of possibility. 

To the extent that it resulted in a 400,000 majority?

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