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4 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

For me unionists are selfish people. 

A bit of a sweeping generalisation there. I'm sure many are, but some of the most selfless and generous people I know believe in the UK.

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2 minutes ago, Toepoke said:

A bit of a sweeping generalisation there. I'm sure many are, but some of the most selfless and generous people I know believe in the UK.

Okay those that are staunch unionists then that defend it and Westminster regardless are selfish then. Those are the ones that grate. 

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26 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

I am starting to get the feeling that the next holyrood elections are going to be held as a mandate for independence

Nope, cannae see it.

 

The SNP wont win an overall majority..  the 2011 was a fluke. it is not designed for that to happen...  

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That pooling and sharing leading to £9 billion annual fiscal transfer.  Selfish bastards.

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56 minutes ago, Alan said:

That pooling and sharing leading to £9 billion annual fiscal transfer.  Selfish bastards.

Kevin Hague Pet Store economics

Very poor

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3 hours ago, stocky said:

Nope, cannae see it.

 

The SNP wont win an overall majority..  the 2011 was a fluke. it is not designed for that to happen...  

SNP and Greens currently hold a majority for Indy though.   In current circumstances - with the country split 50/50, give or take, - it's actually easier for an Indy majority rather than a Unionist one.    With the Greens focussing on the list, they're less likely to cost the SNP constituency seats.  However for the Tories, Labour and Lib Dems it's a lot more difficult for them to organise themselves collectively in the way they would be required to be able to game the system.  SNP and Greens also don't have the problem that the others have that their UK operations would be conflict with any kind of Scottish electoral pact.

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13 minutes ago, aaid said:

SNP and Greens currently hold a majority for Indy though.   In current circumstances - with the country split 50/50, give or take, - it's actually easier for an Indy majority rather than a Unionist one.    With the Greens focussing on the list, they're less likely to cost the SNP constituency seats.  However for the Tories, Labour and Lib Dems it's a lot more difficult for them to organise themselves collectively in the way they would be required to be able to game the system.  SNP and Greens also don't have the problem that the others have that their UK operations would be conflict with any kind of Scottish electoral pact.

I have had this feeling for a while, to start with i thought that the snp would call a referendum as close as possible to the holyrood elections so if the result went against us there would at least be a bounce in the holyrood election like that of GE 2015 however i now think the snp will ask for a referendum which they hope will be ignored by westminster resulting in the snp going into holyrood with independence majority as mandate. I dont know enough about the legality side of it and whether this could be done, if they threaten this westminster may grant a referendum  

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1 minute ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

I have had this feeling for a while, to start with i thought that the snp would call a referendum as close as possible to the holyrood elections so if the result went against us there would at least be a bounce in the holyrood election like that of GE 2015 however i now think the snp will ask for a referendum which they hope will be ignored by westminster resulting in the snp going into holyrood with independence majority as mandate. I dont know enough about the legality side of it and whether this could be done, if they threaten this westminster may grant a referendum  

I tend to think that will also be what will happen but it all depends on what happens with Brexit and more specifically how the aftermath shakes out in Westminster.   

There are three options as I see it.  One is that May manages to get a deal through and remains in place.   The other is that she falls but the Tories manage to stay in Government.   In each of these cases I'd expect that a request for a section 30 order - i.e. the ability to have a referendum - is turned down.   NS will know that in advance but I suspect there will be a formal request and that the UK government will have to formally turn it down.

The other option is that there is UK general election and as part of a deal with the SNP, Labour would agree to the section 30 order.   Labour would need to do a deal with the SNP and probably others to get into power.   Labour might make that reliant on there being a mandate delivered by the 2021 Holyrood election. 

TBH, if we can't deliver an Indy majority in Holyrood in 2021 then we won't win a referendum either.

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17 hours ago, Alan said:

That pooling and sharing leading to £9 billion annual fiscal transfer.  Selfish bastards.

Downright lie.

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21 hours ago, Alan said:

That pooling and sharing leading to £9 billion annual fiscal transfer.  Selfish bastards.

Was down visiting friends and family in England last week when, inevitably, during conversation, I was asked “But why do you want independence?” I replied with a question, “What kind of car do you have?”

 

A BMW followed by a load of letters and numbers that mean nothing to me was the proud reply.

 

“And did you choose that yourself or did your next door neighbour insist on choosing it for you”

 

The “too poor” argument (they really do believe that stuff) came up. Politely. Dressed up in talk about the Barnett Formula, so I decided to demonstrate. I removed a Clydesdale £10 note from my pocket and asked, for the benefit of the demonstration if they had a £20 note.

 

“OK, you be Scotland, I’ll be Westminster.” Holding up the £20 note I said, “This is taxation” The £10 note. “This is the block grant” I handed them the £10 and put the £20 in my pocket.

 

After the forced laughter had ebbed he asked for his money back, but I pointed out that I had just given him a £10 and he was just a subsidy junkie.

 

He tried to argue about who had given who the £20 and the £10 but I told him he was just a grievance monkey and that all his lot were just the same. He was beginning to get cheesed off but he was even worse when I told him he was still running a deficit and he still owed me £4.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Was down visiting friends and family in England last week when, inevitably, during conversation, I was asked “But why do you want independence?” I replied with a question, “What kind of car do you have?”

 

A BMW followed by a load of letters and numbers that mean nothing to me was the proud reply.

 

“And did you choose that yourself or did your next door neighbour insist on choosing it for you”

 

The “too poor” argument (they really do believe that stuff) came up. Politely. Dressed up in talk about the Barnett Formula, so I decided to demonstrate. I removed a Clydesdale £10 note from my pocket and asked, for the benefit of the demonstration if they had a £20 note.

 

“OK, you be Scotland, I’ll be Westminster.” Holding up the £20 note I said, “This is taxation” The £10 note. “This is the block grant” I handed them the £10 and put the £20 in my pocket.

 

After the forced laughter had ebbed he asked for his money back, but I pointed out that I had just given him a £10 and he was just a subsidy junkie.

 

He tried to argue about who had given who the £20 and the £10 but I told him he was just a grievance monkey and that all his lot were just the same. He was beginning to get cheesed off but he was even worse when I told him he was still running a deficit and he still owed me £4.

 

 

:lol:

Very good.

 

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But you forgot to add in factors of UK spending as a whole including defence, state pension, debt payments, economic policies like bailing out RBS, social security etc.  

It is shown in GERS figures. It's a reason why Full Fiscal Autonomy was dropped by SNP after a brief 2015 flirtation and why Andrew Wilson's Growth Commission showed years of austerity to balance the books.

The same mistruths are repeated by the same people 4 years after the Scottish people rejected nationalist populism before accepting it got trendy around the world.

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It is pointless arguing about those kinds of figures while Scotland is bound in the UK and cannot make its own choices and control the economy and immigration and various taxes and so on. 

If Scotland was such a subsidy junkie why is London so desperate to not let her go? 

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1 hour ago, Alan said:

But you forgot to add in factors of UK spending as a whole including defence, state pension, debt payments, economic policies like bailing out RBS, social security etc.  

It is shown in GERS figures. It's a reason why Full Fiscal Autonomy was dropped by SNP after a brief 2015 flirtation and why Andrew Wilson's Growth Commission showed years of austerity to balance the books.

The same mistruths are repeated by the same people 4 years after the Scottish people rejected nationalist populism before accepting it got trendy around the world.

Correct, the same mis-truths by people like you. 

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4 minutes ago, antidote said:

Correct, the same mis-truths by people like you. 

I doubt even he believes them. 

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1 hour ago, Alan said:

But you forgot to add in factors of UK spending as a whole including defence, state pension, debt payments, economic policies like bailing out RBS, social security etc.  

It is shown in GERS figures. It's a reason why Full Fiscal Autonomy was dropped by SNP after a brief 2015 flirtation and why Andrew Wilson's Growth Commission showed years of austerity to balance the books.

The same mistruths are repeated by the same people 4 years after the Scottish people rejected nationalist populism before accepting it got trendy around the world.

is that the same GERS that claimed the English economy grew by 70% last year and claimed Scotland, N Ireland and Wales made up 75% of the UK's total deficit .... 

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11 hours ago, Alan said:

 

The same mistruths are repeated by the same people 4 years after the Scottish people ACCEPTED nationalist populism before accepting it got trendy around the world.

 

Alan as usual you have everything back to front, Alan you are like the  Ross Thompson of this board....

 

The NO campaign was the forerunner of Brexit and Trump, all based on Fear, Scare and Lies, and fake news  ( Aliens will Invade Scotland etc, )

The Scots were the first to vote for it, the majority believed the lies and the scares and the right wing version of the future.  .

Better Together/Trump/Brexit all the same side ... 

The YES campaign is the complete oposite of all the Populism that is around....  

 

 

 

Edited by stocky

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18 hours ago, Alan said:

But you forgot to add in factors of UK spending as a whole including defence, state pension, debt payments, economic policies like bailing out RBS, social security etc.  

It is shown in GERS figures. It's a reason why Full Fiscal Autonomy was dropped by SNP after a brief 2015 flirtation and why Andrew Wilson's Growth Commission showed years of austerity to balance the books.

The same mistruths are repeated by the same people 4 years after the Scottish people rejected nationalist populism before accepting it got trendy around the world.

DpT31wDXcAAutPD.jpg

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19 hours ago, Alan said:

But you forgot to add in factors of UK spending as a whole including defence, state pension, debt payments, economic policies like bailing out RBS, social security etc.  

It is shown in GERS figures. It's a reason why Full Fiscal Autonomy was dropped by SNP after a brief 2015 flirtation and why Andrew Wilson's Growth Commission showed years of austerity to balance the books.

The same mistruths are repeated by the same people 4 years after the Scottish people rejected nationalist populism before accepting it got trendy around the world.

Aye alan. We should be run by another country. Too daft up here. Rab c nesbitt et al. Why does england want us anyway as a matter of a pin yin?

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11 hours ago, stocky said:

 

Alan as usual you have everything back to front, Alan you are like the  Ross Thompson of this board....

 

The NO campaign was the forerunner of Brexit and Trump, all based on Fear, Scare and Lies, and fake news  ( Aliens will Invade Scotland etc, )

The Scots were the first to vote for it, the majority believed the lies and the scares and the right wing version of the future.  .

Better Together/Trump/Brexit all the same side ... 

The YES campaign is the complete oposite of all the Populism that is around....  

 

 

 

I wonder if anyone thinks that Irish nationalist / republican populism is 'bad' nationalist populism, therefore equated with Brexit, or would it be the DUP?

Or is Palestinian self-determination also 'bad' nationalist populism, or is it more likely that Trump would be on the side of Israel?  

Or is Scotland unique in generating the 'wrong' kind of national political self-determinism?

 

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On 10/11/2018 at 10:33 PM, Alan said:

But you forgot to add in factors of UK spending as a whole including defence, state pension, debt payments, economic policies like bailing out RBS, social security etc.  

It is shown in GERS figures. It's a reason why Full Fiscal Autonomy was dropped by SNP after a brief 2015 flirtation and why Andrew Wilson's Growth Commission showed years of austerity to balance the books.

The same mistruths are repeated by the same people 4 years after the Scottish people rejected nationalist populism before accepting it got trendy around the world.

Jesus Christ. These unionists are thick as fuck, no wonder the UK is on the verge of collapse.

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8 hours ago, stevenmcn said:

Jesus Christ. These unionists are thick as fuck, no wonder the UK is on the verge of collapse.

When it comes to Scotland it's more insidious than being thick for those that peddle the lies

 

Edited by Ally Bongo

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