Is Donald Trump's Campaign A Spoof?

[kumnio]

4 minutes ago, Mox said:

We could sit here for days on end going through every instance of violence carried out by the protesters simply to fit in with your narrative of shifting focus from the real issue of police murdering people. You're priorities are warped.

And you have ignored posts where thats been done, because you think you have something which isnt there.

Is it hard to criticise thugs attacking a girl, or an elderly couple? Obviously it is.

Edited June 4, 2020 by kumnio

[thplinth]

8 minutes ago, kumnio said:

I thought this was a bot.

It starts as a bot but I think we have graduated to an actual person.

[phart]

The partisans on both sides spending more time arguing about the perceived faults of the other side. No wonder it's so hard for society to navigate a way through these problems.

[vanderark14]

10 minutes ago, phart said:

The partisans on both sides spending more time arguing about the perceived faults of the other side. No wonder it's so hard for society to navigate a way through these problems.

Which side am i on?

[Eisegerwind]

39 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

Which side am i on?

Arthur.

 

 

Edited June 4, 2020 by Eisegerwind

[Eisegerwind]

You do realiise that the guys with the big guns citing the 2nd amendment are not only trying to defend themselves against 'bad people',it's mainly to defend themselves from the state,looking like a sensible viewpoint.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by Eisegerwind
2nd 5th whatever principle applies.

[wee-toon-red]

Mental. Thplinth, Vanderark, Kumnio: What exactly is it about the blatantly racist murder of a black man whose `’crime`’ was handing over a fake $20 bill, by a police officer, that has got you all reaching for the excuses, the deflection and the straw men?

[WCTA]

2 hours ago, Mox said:

It's pretty disheartening to see such a casual attitude towards racism on here . These clowns are by no means representative of the country at large but by God there's more of them than you would imagine.

I’ll ask my black mate tomorrow when I meet him for a pint. I’m like John Terry by the way. You can’t call me a racist because I have a black pal. 
He is actually very upset with these looting bastards. Obviously makes his existence all the more tough. 
 

I quoted the wrong guy. Should have been Wee-toon-red.

Edited June 5, 2020 by WCTA

[ParisInAKilt]

3 hours ago, wee-toon-red said:

Mental. Thplinth, Vanderark, Kumnio: What exactly is it about the blatantly racist murder of a black man whose `’crime`’ was handing over a fake $20 bill, by a police officer, that has got you all reaching for the excuses, the deflection and the straw men?

Except it’s not a blatant racist murder, unless we’re at the stage anytime a crime is committed  between different races it’s automatically motivated by race. 

None of those posters have made excuses for the murder either, well not that I’ve seen. It’s inexcusable and the cops should be found guilty. 

Its funny, I don’t think anyone on here supports violence, whether it’s by a cop, protester, white or black person but here we are 10 pages deep going back and forward about it. 

 

[vanderark14]

4 hours ago, wee-toon-red said:

Mental. Thplinth, Vanderark, Kumnio: What exactly is it about the blatantly racist murder of a black man whose `’crime`’ was handing over a fake $20 bill, by a police officer, that has got you all reaching for the excuses, the deflection and the straw men?

I cant answer that question because its not what im doing. Ive not made o e excuse for what happened npr have i deflectwd away from the crime. If you could point me in the direction of where i did that, please do so.

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by vanderark14

[vanderark14]

33 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Except it’s not a blatant racist murder, unless we’re at the stage anytime a crime is committed  between different races it’s automatically motivated by race. 

None of those posters have made excuses for the murder either, well not that I’ve seen. It’s inexcusable and the cops should be found guilty. 

Its funny, I don’t think anyone on here supports violence, whether it’s by a cop, protester, white or black person but here we are 10 pages deep going back and forward about it. 

 

Absolutely spot on. 

[thplinth]

2 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said:

None of those posters have made excuses for the murder either, well not that I’ve seen. It’s inexcusable and the cops should be found guilty. 

Its funny, I don’t think anyone on here supports violence, whether it’s by a cop, protester, white or black person but here we are 10 pages deep going back and forward about it. 

Mox does... wee toon red does.... racial violence as well. Looks like quite a few others may as well. 

[thplinth]

9 hours ago, kumnio said:

Black 77 year old ex-cop who was killed, deserved it.

Black transgender woman beaten black and blue, deserved it.

White couple defending their home attacked with 2x4s, deserved it.

Mox justice, what a guy. Moral voice of the TAMB by all accounts.

You can condemn the cops actions all day long but you are not allowed to condemn all of the above because it highlights their own grotesque racism and interferes with them exploiting the man's death for their own ends.

[phart]

Getting annoyed that someone is highlighting  police violence ,from police of all races, against all races (the people) and countering that by highlighting African Americans specific violence only suggests some "race" specific preoccupation.

We don't have any evidence that George Chauvin did what he did due to Racism as has been pointed out. Can we produce the racial element to these violent crimes shown, seems we have a double standard happening.

[thplinth]

9 hours ago, kumnio said:

Mox is more than likely one of these Green Brigade types...

Oh man, thick as you get... lol.

Unfortunately I think alcohol is playing a large part in the way the discussion goes, especially in the evening. Probably best to limit the discussion to the day time.

[vanderark14]

 

I see one of the cops arrested had only been on the job 4 days, thats no excuse he was in a position to stop what was going on. His lawyer is arguing that he did plead with chauvin to role him over. Here is the quote 

Lane was also new to the job, having been on the force for only four days when the incident occurred, his attorney, Earl Gray, claimed. Gray said Lane twice asked Chauvin, a training officer, "Shall we roll him over?" He also expressed concern that Floyd may be in "delirium," Gray said.

"What is my client supposed to do other than follow what the training officer said?" Gray asked in court.

 

 

[thplinth]

9 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

Thatsnnot what he is doing, why are you making stuff up?

When your argument is fundamentally horrendous you have to.

You are able to condemn all acts of violence without thinking about it (and have done over and over again). They can't and that should tip you off about the nature of their internal 'thinking'.

We are essentially being told here that the man's murder justifies all these horrible acts of violence on all these innocent people. Yet at the same time we are being told that it is racist to bring up these subsequent acts up or even to condemn them (and by people clearly unwilling to do so). So they want to use the killing to 'justify' all the horrible (often race motivated) crimes they are encouraging but at the same time call you are a racist if you connect them. You see the problem here.

They are using a horrible crime to justify horrible crimes.

They are no different from the cop and arguably far worse.

[ThistleWhistle]

1 hour ago, phart said:

Getting annoyed that someone is highlighting  police violence ,from police of all races, against all races (the people) and countering that by highlighting African Americans specific violence only suggests some "race" specific preoccupation.

We don't have any evidence that George Chauvin did what he did due to Racism as has been pointed out. Can we produce the racial element to these violent crimes shown, seems we have a double standard happening.

Think we've got to be careful though as the incident itself may not turn out to be racially motivated but the response is deeply and disturbingly flawed.   

If it is the case the two of them knew each other, and had a beef, it should be premeditated and then 1st degree murder.  At the moment what's happened is the perpetrator originally got sacked for killing someone and only got arrested when it kicked off with his original charge 3rd degree murder which is manslaughter.  After it continuing to kick off his charge has been increased to 2nd degree which is murder not premeditated and only then were the other three arrested for aiding and abetting.  

Personally although the incident itself may not turn out to be racially motivated the response to it would definitely suggest deep rooted institutional racism for me.  If it hadn't been kicking off the main police officer might have got away with manslaughter and the other three a disciplinary.  

 

 

 

[kumnio]

8 hours ago, wee-toon-red said:

Mental. Thplinth, Vanderark, Kumnio: What exactly is it about the blatantly racist murder of a black man whose `’crime`’ was handing over a fake $20 bill, by a police officer, that has got you all reaching for the excuses, the deflection and the straw men?

Show me where I’ve once done that?

You lot are mental, I’ve called out police violence god knows how many times just a few pages ago FFS. 

[aaid]

34 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

 

I see one of the cops arrested had only been on the job 4 days, thats no excuse he was in a position to stop what was going on. His lawyer is arguing that he did plead with chauvin to role him over. Here is the quote 

Lane was also new to the job, having been on the force for only four days when the incident occurred, his attorney, Earl Gray, claimed. Gray said Lane twice asked Chauvin, a training officer, "Shall we roll him over?" He also expressed concern that Floyd may be in "delirium," Gray said.

"What is my client supposed to do other than follow what the training officer said?" Gray asked in court.

 

 

It's worth pointing out that it's common practice in the US justice system to initially lay the most serious charges available with the intention of then plea bargaining down to lesser charges.

its also worth pointing out that the law in the US, in respect of murder particularly, to the UK and in fact, individual states have their own differences which determine what someone is actually charged with, or indeed whether they are charged at all.

There is no equivalent in English or Scottish Law of second degree murder, which is what Derek Chauvin is now charged with.  That would probably be considered as closer to either manslaughter or culpable homocide here.

Minnesota is one of only three states which has the crime of their degree murder on their statutes.   On the surface at least, that would seem to be an appropriate charge for the three police officers who didn't intervene directly to stop it.   If one of them has only been on the force for four days then he probably has a reasonable defence that there wasn't much he could do, but the initial charges do appear correct.   If I were to bet on it, he'll get either a much reduced misdemeanour charge or charges dropped altogether in exchange for his testimony or maybe I've been watching to many reruns of Law and Order.

[vanderark14]

20 minutes ago, aaid said:

It's worth pointing out that it's common practice in the US justice system to initially lay the most serious charges available with the intention of then plea bargaining down to lesser charges.

its also worth pointing out that the law in the US, in respect of murder particularly, to the UK and in fact, individual states have their own differences which determine what someone is actually charged with, or indeed whether they are charged at all.

There is no equivalent in English or Scottish Law of second degree murder, which is what Derek Chauvin is now charged with.  That would probably be considered as closer to either manslaughter or culpable homocide here.

Minnesota is one of only three states which has the crime of their degree murder on their statutes.   On the surface at least, that would seem to be an appropriate charge for the three police officers who didn't intervene directly to stop it.   If one of them has only been on the force for four days then he probably has a reasonable defence that there wasn't much he could do, but the initial charges do appear correct.   If I were to bet on it, he'll get either a much reduced misdemeanour charge or charges dropped altogether in exchange for his testimony or maybe I've been watching to many reruns of Law and Order.

These were my thoughts too. With tensions so high right now, the backlash to a misdemeanour could be worse than what we see now. Immense pressure on the judge to get this one right.

 

 

[Mox]

1 hour ago, thplinth said:

Oh man, thick as you get... lol.

Unfortunately I think alcohol is playing a large part in the way the discussion goes, especially in the evening. Probably best to limit the discussion to the day time.

GREEN BRIGADE KLAXON.

 

[thplinth]

The one thing that is a certainty is that they are going to absolutely crucify the cop kneeling his neck. The fact they charged the 4 day rookie as well tells you that.

I read that the autopsy showed he did not die of asphyxiation. He was on meth and fentanyl and was caught on camera dropping a baggie of something when handcuffed. He also had a long history of drug related convictions. So it is likely he was not in great physical condition before being subjected to that level of physical duress. This might make it difficult to pin point to one specific policeman though despite the shocking clip of the one cop kneeling on his neck,especially if he can prove that was part of his training. 

Whatever the reality of it is, he is still completely fucked. Probably spend the rest of his life in solitary as he would be instantly killed in the general population. Might as well just top himself now.

 

[vanderark14]

7 minutes ago, thplinth said:

The one thing that is a certainty is that they are going to absolutely crucify the cop kneeling his neck. The fact they charged the 4 day rookie as well tells you that.

I read that the autopsy showed he did not die of asphyxiation. He was on meth and fentanyl and was caught on camera dropping a baggie of something when handcuffed. He also had a long history of drug related convictions. So it is likely he was not in great physical condition before being subjected to that level of physical duress. This might make it difficult to pin point to one specific policeman though despite the shocking clip of the one cop kneeling on his neck,especially if he can prove that was part of his training. 

Whatever the reality of it is, he is still completely fucked. Probably spend the rest of his life in solitary as he would be instantly killed in the general population. Might as well just top himself now.

 

The police autopsy didnt but the one commissioned by flloyds family did die of asphyxiation. 

 

[phart]

8 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

The police autopsy didnt but the one commissioned by flloyds family did die of asphyxiation. 

 

Final report was done by Dr. Andrew M. Baker and reported "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdural, restraint, and neck compression."

You can read the report here : https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepinus/residents/public-safety/documents/Autopsy_2020-3700_Floyd.pdf

That's the final police one not the one commisioned by the family.