Squirrelhumper Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 8 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said: at the risk of upsetting some, the protesting and rioting is getting the better of me, yes what the cops did was brutal and should have the full force of the law coming down on them however what is rioting going to do to help,, its a disgrace and those wanting to use it as a political tool are a disgrace, i have no time for trump however, i dont think he has done anything drastically wrong, Rid the streets of these thugs through any means possible, law and order needs to be imposed. There are more violent racial assaults on Caucasians than any other ethnicity in america given they are the largest ethnicity , this also needs to be looked at. Is racism ever present in the USA, yes it is but it works both ways which seems to be forgotten about!!!! At the risk of sounding like "I'm not a racist but", you have. If you seriously don't think Trump has done anything drastically wrong during this, then you have my sympathy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 24 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said: At the risk of sounding like "I'm not a racist but", you have. If you seriously don't think Trump has done anything drastically wrong during this, then you have my sympathy. Call be stupid if you like but why does his reply sound racist? Please give me the dignity of an answer instesd of a mox style answer like "if you dont know i cant help you". Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 6 hours ago, macy37 said: If this had been a black police officer on a white man what would be happening in the US of A right now? It has been a few times. The Americans I personally know are protesting against police brutality as opposed to about one incident. It's a collection of individuals not a homogeneous crowd. You've got racists across the spectrums, anarchists, thieves, looters and protestors all participating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 9 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said: at the risk of upsetting some, the protesting and rioting is getting the better of me, yes what the cops did was brutal and should have the full force of the law coming down on them however what is rioting going to do to help,, its a disgrace and those wanting to use it as a political tool are a disgrace, i have no time for trump however, i dont think he has done anything drastically wrong, Rid the streets of these thugs through any means possible, law and order needs to be imposed. There are more violent racial assaults on Caucasians than any other ethnicity in america given they are the largest ethnicity , this also needs to be looked at. Is racism ever present in the USA, yes it is but it works both ways which seems to be forgotten about!!!! Using "rubber bullets" and tear gas on peaceful protestors so he could hold a bible upside down for a photo opportunity is pretty bad. A good book on how we got here from the Police Brutality perspective is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 6 minutes ago, vanderark14 said: Call be stupid if you like but why does his reply sound racist? Please give me the dignity of an answer instesd of a mox style answer like "if you dont know i cant help you". Thanks Just guessing, but I suspect it's the whole - but there's racism on both sides - argument that's a bit iffy. i wouldn't say myself it's necessarily a racist viewpoint in itself but it is an argument that racists will use to justify their views, particularly when those making it have never been subject to any actual discrimination in their life While it's an undeniable fact that every group of people contains those that have their own prejudices based on race, creed , colour or whatever, the key here is that there's one side here that has the power and is exercising that power against the other side. That's the key things here, not whether there's more blacks that hate whites than the other way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, vanderark14 said: Call be stupid if you like but why does his reply sound racist? Please give me the dignity of an answer instesd of a mox style answer like "if you dont know i cant help you". Thanks No idea but using a discussion about the extrajudicial killing of a "black" man by state actors to highlight the assault rate amongest "white" folk is a bit whataboutery. It's the sort of thing you see in discussion about Palestine/Israel from the Israeli side. Edited June 3, 2020 by phart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 Is there any evidence that this police murder was racially motivated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: Is there any evidence that this police murder was racially motivated? If it wasn't racially motivated does that make it more or less acceptable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 4 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: Is there any evidence that this police murder was racially motivated? No idea for this one. There's a statistical trend though. I understand this thread has had other ratios quoted but this has working and sources etc and is collaborated as well. In 2019 data of all police killings in the country compiled by Mapping Police Violence, black Americans were nearly three times more likely to die from police than white Americans. Other statistics showed that black Americans were nearly one-and-a-half times more likely to be unarmed before their death. https://www.statista.com/chart/21872/map-of-police-violence-against-black-americans/ https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 3 minutes ago, aaid said: If it wasn't racially motivated does that make it more or less acceptable? It’s horrible either way. 2 minutes ago, phart said: No idea for this one. There's a statistical trend though. I understand this thread has had other ratios quoted but this has working and sources etc and is collaborated as well. In 2019 data of all police killings in the country compiled by Mapping Police Violence, black Americans were nearly three times more likely to die from police than white Americans. Other statistics showed that black Americans were nearly one-and-a-half times more likely to be unarmed before their death. https://www.statista.com/chart/21872/map-of-police-violence-against-black-americans/ https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/ Thanks The militarising of the police is pretty scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 It's not about crime either no corrollary is shown in those two statistics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumnio Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 The sheer number of videos coming out of America is staggering, its like each city is trying to each other in brutality and sheer stupidity. Its not graphic, or violent, but the video of cops arresting quite a large (heavy) black guy for simply speaking is bewildering, gets pulled out of the crowd, and then decked by a few before being lifted. Simply for speaking. (true, you don't know what happened before the video, but it looked peaceful) The violent videos are losing impact, cops think they are special forces fighting the Taliban it seems, half the fuckers should end up in jail. It really could end up in a full blown civil war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 3 minutes ago, kumnio said: The sheer number of videos coming out of America is staggering, its like each city is trying to each other in brutality and sheer stupidity. Its not graphic, or violent, but the video of cops arresting quite a large (heavy) black guy for simply speaking is bewildering, gets pulled out of the crowd, and then decked by a few before being lifted. Simply for speaking. (true, you don't know what happened before the video, but it looked peaceful) The violent videos are losing impact, cops think they are special forces fighting the Taliban it seems, half the fuckers should end up in jail. It really could end up in a full blown civil war. On the other side you have thieving fucks ruining it for the folk against police brutality by wrecking the place and stealing shit, trying to form mobs to attack folk etc. I've seen videos of police smashing cars up for no reason as well. The smart protestors are policing the folk trying to cause mayhem , staying calm and adopting hongkong tactics. A lot of the police forces get training in Israel so it's no surprise they're going about like it's the occupied territories Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumnio Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 1 minute ago, phart said: On the other side you have thieving fucks ruining it for the folk against police brutality by wrecking the place and stealing shit, trying to form mobs to attack folk etc. I've seen videos of police smashing cars up for no reason as well. The smart protestors are policing the folk trying to cause mayhem , staying calm and adopting hongkong tactics. A lot of the police forces get training in Israel so it's no surprise they're going about like it's the occupied territories The whole thing is fucked beyond belief, easily the worst Ive seen, makes the Rodney King aftermath seem tame. Theres a video of white people standing outside what looks like a gated community, each bloke has an assault weapon, and trying to look as menacing as they can. Theres BLM people walking past, and they just stare through them. A high five, a clap, a well done or whatever could have said we agree with what your doing, but we are just protecting our property, but theres nothing. These people genuinely seem to dislike each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 (edited) 34 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: Is there any evidence that this police murder was racially motivated? I don't believe it was intentional. They will have done that neck kneeling shite many many times. (I would not be surprised if other people had died of it as a result.) The cop doing it looks totally blasé and I think he really is. This is the nasty shit they are routinely doing in the US especially if you do not comply (and that is what sets them off, some of them become absolutely raging). Most would survive this ordeal but if you had any pre-exsiting medical problems then it becomes especially dangerous. So I am not surprised they are kneeling on a man's neck. What makes it so horrific is him repeatedly begging them to stop and saying he cant breath. You can clearly hear the desperation in his voice and they just ignored him. They are so detached from the people they are brutalizing it is frightening. US cops have become especially barbaric because they are being specifically trained like this now as mentioned many times above. You have to wonder why... Edited June 3, 2020 by thplinth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThistleWhistle Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 10 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said: at the risk of upsetting some, the protesting and rioting is getting the better of me, yes what the cops did was brutal and should have the full force of the law coming down on them however what is rioting going to do to help,, its a disgrace and those wanting to use it as a political tool are a disgrace, i have no time for trump however, i dont think he has done anything drastically wrong, Rid the streets of these thugs through any means possible, law and order needs to be imposed. There are more violent racial assaults on Caucasians than any other ethnicity in america given they are the largest ethnicity , this also needs to be looked at. Is racism ever present in the USA, yes it is but it works both ways which seems to be forgotten about!!!! There’s a lot to unpack in that to be honest but essentially the bloke you’re advocating to oversee martial law wanted the Central Park 5 executed and advocated hate as the way forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 8 minutes ago, thplinth said: I don't believe it was intentional. They will have done that neck kneeling shite many many times. (I would not be surprised if other people had died of it as a result.) The cop doing it looks totally blasé and I think he really is. This is the nasty shit they are routinely doing in the US especially if you do not comply (and that is what sets them off, some of them become absolutely raging). Most would survive this ordeal but if you had any pre-exsiting medical problems then it becomes especially dangerous. So I am not surprised they are kneeling on a man's neck. What makes it so horrific is him repeatedly begging them to stop and saying he cant breath. You can clearly hear the desperation in his voice and they just ignored him. They are so detached from the people they are brutalizing it is frightening. US cops have become especially barbaric because they are being specifically trained like this now as mentioned many times above. You have to wonder why... The police Officer and this dude reportedly worked at the same place George Floyd and Derek Chauvin worked at same club and may have crossed paths, owner says https://www.cbsnews.com/news/derek-chauvin-nightclub-george-floyd-security-shifts-el-nuevo-rodeo-minneapolis/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 12 minutes ago, thplinth said: I don't believe it was intentional. They will have done that neck kneeling shite many many times. (I would not be surprised if other people had died of it as a result.) The cop doing it looks totally blasé and I think he really is. This is the nasty shit they are routinely doing in the US especially if you do not comply (and that is what sets them off, some of them become absolutely raging). Most would survive this ordeal but if you had any pre-exsiting medical problems then it becomes especially dangerous. So I am not surprised they are kneeling on a man's neck. What makes it so horrific is him repeatedly begging them to stop and saying he cant breath. You can clearly hear the desperation in his voice and they just ignored him. They are so detached from the people they are brutalizing it is frightening. US cops have become especially barbaric because they are being specifically trained like this now as mentioned many times above. You have to wonder why... Couldn’t believe the neck kneeling technique is actually legal and is still being taught in some states. This all just screams divide and conquer, keep people hating each other, the police, the government etc. All very troubling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 33 minutes ago, phart said: On the other side you have thieving fucks ruining it for the folk against police brutality by wrecking the place and stealing shit, trying to form mobs to attack folk etc. I've seen videos of police smashing cars up for no reason as well. The smart protestors are policing the folk trying to cause mayhem , staying calm and adopting hongkong tactics. A lot of the police forces get training in Israel so it's no surprise they're going about like it's the occupied territories While in no way justifying the actions or tactics of the Israeli security services, they operate in an environment that is highly charged to say the least. It makes you wonder about the state of US society - or the mindset of those responsible - that US law enforcement are being given training in this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 58 minutes ago, vanderark14 said: Call be stupid if you like but why does his reply sound racist? Please give me the dignity of an answer instesd of a mox style answer like "if you dont know i cant help you". Thanks Well I mean it's fucking obvious, how can you not see it? He's equating black and white racism as the same thing in a country that has for hundreds of years disproportionately targeted black people, it's whataboutery with a smidgen of racial undertones sprinkled on top. We're a bawhair away from some cretin blurting out 'All Lives Matter' on this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, aaid said: While in no way justifying the actions or tactics of the Israeli security services, they operate in an environment that is highly charged to say the least. It makes you wonder about the state of US society - or the mindset of those responsible - that US law enforcement are being given training in this way. That's half my point you are getting trained the same way an occupying army gets trained to police. It's fucking bonkers. "You" being US police forces. Edited June 3, 2020 by phart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ger intae them Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 (edited) . Edited June 3, 2020 by ger intae them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ger intae them Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 8 minutes ago, Mox said: We're a bawhair away from some cretin blurting out 'All Lives Matter' on this thread. They do ✌️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThistleWhistle Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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