thplinth Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 I would strongly recommend folk have a listen to that Candace Owens podcast i posted earlier. She is far more articulate than I could ever dream to be on this. You really have to listen to it. I could not even attempt to paraphrase it. For example George Floyd participated in a home invasion with a group of men on a heavily pregnant black woman. He personally held a gun to her stomach while his accomplices raided her house for valuables. That is what he got his heavy jail sentence for. With the drugs in his system at the time of his death and the baggie he dropped plus the attempt to pass a fake bill it suggests the media narrative that he had put his life back on track is not entirely true. At the same time she points out there is complete consensus that what they did to him was deeply wrong. There is so much in it it is well worth the 20 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 2 hours ago, thplinth said: Oh man, thick as you get... lol. Unfortunately I think alcohol is playing a large part in the way the discussion goes, especially in the evening. Probably best to limit the discussion to the day time. Just to add to this btw, your continued insistence that I must have an alcohol addiction or mental health issues because I've called you out on your bullshit, really gives us an indication of what type of person we are dealing with here. Its the first retort of the idiot, although I suspect you probably don't know any better, youve stood still in a fast moving world and you've become insular, angry and bitter as a result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 (edited) I have no idea if you have an alcohol addiction or mental health issues. What I do know is that you come on here and wildly start smearing people with a palpable seethe in your tone and language. You've called out no one for anything. Your arguments are childish and moronic. You have zero idea how to have a civilized discourse. For a man in his thirties it is astonishing how immature and idiotic you are. You are dumber than a pallet of those bricks someone is laying out. Hope that clears it up for you. Edited June 5, 2020 by thplinth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 What's the relevance of the Baggie (was it ever recovered?) or previous convictions to the case? None of these things were known to the Police at the time so wouldn't have affected their actions? It's alright to do it to folk with time served prior convictions. Also can we get a source for the pregnant lady thing, he got sentenced for 5 years, the case number can be found here : https://www.harriscountyso.org/jailinfo/OffenseInquiry.aspx under SPN: 01610509 https://thecourierdaily.com/george-floyd-criminal-past-record-arrest/20177/ This website has the court documents but as it notes "According to Candace Owens, who refused to amend “George Floyd his Martyr” said that George once put a gun to a pregnant lady’s/women’s stomach and allegedly robbed a pregnant which is not acceptable by any means. However, there is no written statement of the same in the court records." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 This one is fucked up https://news.wbfo.org/post/graphic-video-two-buffalo-police-officers-suspended-after-elderly-man-shoved-and-injured The polis wrote in their report he "tripped" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Mox said: Just to add to this btw, your continued insistence that I must have an alcohol addiction or mental health issues because I've called you out on your bullshit, really gives us an indication of what type of person we are dealing with here. Its the first retort of the idiot, although I suspect you probably don't know any better, youve stood still in a fast moving world and you've become insular, angry and bitter as a result. Its extremely frustrating when someone tries to smear your character without anything to back it up👍🏼👍🏼 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 Did anyone even hear about this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, thplinth said: Did anyone even hear about this? Aye it took 3 years for the video to come out as well, guy was mentally ill and suffering and they joked and laughed about it (the police). Happened in 2016 and didn't get the footage till 2019 , cause obviously the police didn't want it coming out, he unfortunately had no one basically live streaming his murder. Edited June 5, 2020 by phart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecialisedOutsourcing Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 Candace Owens being quoted now ffs. Regardless of how “articulate” she is (dog whistle) she is an unreconstructed opportunistic nazi and only her relatively attractive appearance has allowed her entrance as the acceptable face of blackness to right wing dinner tables. David Irving will be wheeled out next as an objective and “articulate” commentator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 32 minutes ago, phart said: Aye it took 3 years for the video to come out as well, guy was mentally ill and suffering and they joked and laughed about it (the police). Happened in 2016 and didn't get the footage till 2019 , cause obviously the police didn't want it coming out, he unfortunately had no one basically live streaming his murder. I could not believe as I was watching it. They are both horrific but I found that one worse than the Floyd one. The smirking cops in it are unbelievably vile. Did it even appear in the MSM? There is no exploitable race angle to it so it is not interesting to them. In fact it detracts from what they want as it shows the cops are doing this to everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThistleWhistle Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 It's not going be popular but I'm not as perturbed that the race riots descended into smashing shit up and it extending into politics. On the prior, we could exchange videos of blacks attacking whites and visa versa ad nauseam but with the sheer weight of history its pretty obvious which side 'wins' that dance off. On the later you have a population that is looking at 25% unemployment whilst corporations are getting bailouts so public anger is understandable. It is unquestionably shocking watching it and obviously raises questions around the morality and ethics of how could they do it. However, for me that misses a fundamental point in a fish rots from the head down so morality and ethics come from the top not from the bottom of society upwards. It is completely unfair to watch the cream at the top take the absolute piss then complain when the bottom rung of society aren't playing by the rules of the game. You can't have one side not adhering to the contract of society and then that side getting pissy when the least advantaged demographic decide they're not going to adhere either. Peaceful protest are all very well but essentially they're adhering to the agreed norms. We have peaceful examples of protest all the time: folk here marching about in kilts or clad in orange; Tibetans with the Chinese where they'd rather self immolate than riot; a week of everyone moaning about Cummings and they achieve the square root of fuck all or, at best, move things on incrementally. A 'spark' though gives things a boot up the arse and changes the game whether it being Covid-19 almost eradicating homelessness here overnight or, specifically with this case, the police officers actually being arrested. 'It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence' Hanibal off the A-Team Fighting racism with racism though is obviously as nonsensical as fighting fire with fire but some of it depends on perspective in even defining it. Black person smacking a white person for being white - racist. White person owning a shop - not racist. Black person smashing up shops because they're owned by white people - racist. Black person smashing up shops downtown where vast majority are owned by white people - arguably example of endemic racism where they haven't same perceived opportunity. You then have an uncomfortable question around if US society is endemically racist against the black community then there will be members of that community who ask why should they uphold their end of the social contract? Candice Owens is right in that they need to sort their own shit out and it can't all be laid at racial prejudice in society but simply playing by existing schematics isn't going to work either. It's too simplistic generalising it as racist as Latinos are doing better than blacks whereas Asians are doing better than whites purely based on income. In terms of the black population though it doesn't really matter red or blue but since the end of segregation in the 60's subsequent legislation has evidently failed to create an equitable society for them who still seemed anchored in centuries of prejudice. The gap between black wages and white wages has roughly been static since the sixties and the truth likely falls somewhere in between an overreliance on welfare and lack of opportunity at the moment although its more down to the later with my leanings. For me though the focus needs to move from how to stop the riots and quickly onto how to stop them happening again and the answer to that isn't giving police and army free reign to smash shit up in return. I found the video of the black fella making the white woman kneel in front of him deeply disturbing and it stayed with me for most of the day as that's a horrible tit-for-tat road to ruin. Last night I read a story of a black teen here being forced to kneel to kiss a white teens shoe in England and skimmed over it onto Corona. It took a few seconds to register but I honestly can't say whether it was because the prior was: visual; a woman; a white woman or a mixture of all three that it hit me considerably more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumnio Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 1 hour ago, phart said: This one is fucked up https://news.wbfo.org/post/graphic-video-two-buffalo-police-officers-suspended-after-elderly-man-shoved-and-injured The polis wrote in their report he "tripped" I’ve seen that, I suppose technically he did trip, that’s what the lawyer will argue. It’s just a positive that so many things are caught on camera now. After this dies down, the American Police system needs some overhaul. A good percentage of them need sacked or jailed, but that simply won’t happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave78 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 24 minutes ago, ThistleWhistle said: It's not going be popular but I'm not as perturbed that the race riots descended into smashing shit up and it extending into politics. On the prior, we could exchange videos of blacks attacking whites and visa versa ad nauseam but with the sheer weight of history its pretty obvious which side 'wins' that dance off. On the later you have a population that is looking at 25% unemployment whilst corporations are getting bailouts so public anger is understandable. It is unquestionably shocking watching it and obviously raises questions around the morality and ethics of how could they do it. However, for me that misses a fundamental point in a fish rots from the head down so morality and ethics come from the top not from the bottom of society upwards. It is completely unfair to watch the cream at the top take the absolute piss then complain when the bottom rung of society aren't playing by the rules of the game. You can't have one side not adhering to the contract of society and then that side getting pissy when the least advantaged demographic decide they're not going to adhere either. Peaceful protest are all very well but essentially they're adhering to the agreed norms. We have peaceful examples of protest all the time: folk here marching about in kilts or clad in orange; Tibetans with the Chinese where they'd rather self immolate than riot; a week of everyone moaning about Cummings and they achieve the square root of fuck all or, at best, move things on incrementally. A 'spark' though gives things a boot up the arse and changes the game whether it being Covid-19 almost eradicating homelessness here overnight or, specifically with this case, the police officers actually being arrested. 'It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence' Hanibal off the A-Team I found this from Trevor Noah quite insightful... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 (edited) 37 minutes ago, ThistleWhistle said: It's not going be popular but I'm not as perturbed that the race riots descended into smashing shit up and it extending into politics. On the prior, we could exchange videos of blacks attacking whites and visa versa ad nauseam but with the sheer weight of history its pretty obvious which side 'wins' that dance off. On the later you have a population that is looking at 25% unemployment whilst corporations are getting bailouts so public anger is understandable. It is unquestionably shocking watching it and obviously raises questions around the morality and ethics of how could they do it. However, for me that misses a fundamental point in a fish rots from the head down so morality and ethics come from the top not from the bottom of society upwards. It is completely unfair to watch the cream at the top take the absolute piss then complain when the bottom rung of society aren't playing by the rules of the game. You can't have one side not adhering to the contract of society and then that side getting pissy when the least advantaged demographic decide they're not going to adhere either. Peaceful protest are all very well but essentially they're adhering to the agreed norms. We have peaceful examples of protest all the time: folk here marching about in kilts or clad in orange; Tibetans with the Chinese where they'd rather self immolate than riot; a week of everyone moaning about Cummings and they achieve the square root of fuck all or, at best, move things on incrementally. A 'spark' though gives things a boot up the arse and changes the game whether it being Covid-19 almost eradicating homelessness here overnight or, specifically with this case, the police officers actually being arrested. 'It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence' Hanibal off the A-Team Fighting racism with racism though is obviously as nonsensical as fighting fire with fire but some of it depends on perspective in even defining it. Black person smacking a white person for being white - racist. White person owning a shop - not racist. Black person smashing up shops because they're owned by white people - racist. Black person smashing up shops downtown where vast majority are owned by white people - arguably example of endemic racism where they haven't same perceived opportunity. You then have an uncomfortable question around if US society is endemically racist against the black community then there will be members of that community who ask why should they uphold their end of the social contract? Candice Owens is right in that they need to sort their own shit out and it can't all be laid at racial prejudice in society but simply playing by existing schematics isn't going to work either. It's too simplistic generalising it as racist as Latinos are doing better than blacks whereas Asians are doing better than whites purely based on income. In terms of the black population though it doesn't really matter red or blue but since the end of segregation in the 60's subsequent legislation has evidently failed to create an equitable society for them who still seemed anchored in centuries of prejudice. The gap between black wages and white wages has roughly been static since the sixties and the truth likely falls somewhere in between an overreliance on welfare and lack of opportunity at the moment although its more down to the later with my leanings. For me though the focus needs to move from how to stop the riots and quickly onto how to stop them happening again and the answer to that isn't giving police and army free reign to smash shit up in return. I found the video of the black fella making the white woman kneel in front of him deeply disturbing and it stayed with me for most of the day as that's a horrible tit-for-tat road to ruin. Last night I read a story of a black teen here being forced to kneel to kiss a white teens shoe in England and skimmed over it onto Corona. It took a few seconds to register but I honestly can't say whether it was because the prior was: visual; a woman; a white woman or a mixture of all three that it hit me considerably more. That's why you engage in civil disobedience , strikes etc as opposed to just wrecking shit. That's been shown to be effective. The last couple of days have been folk snapping, while the police stuff is consistent with decades of policing. Edited June 5, 2020 by phart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, phart said: That's why you engage in civil disobedience , strikes etc as opposed to just wrecking shit. That's been shown to be effective. The last couple of days have been folk snapping, while the police stuff is consistent with decades of policing. And the two are intrinsically linked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumnio Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 These fuckers should be jailed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThistleWhistle Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 28 minutes ago, phart said: That's why you engage in civil disobedience , strikes etc as opposed to just wrecking shit. That's been shown to be effective. The last couple of days have been folk snapping, while the police stuff is consistent with decades of policing. Yeah defo - as soon as it starts costing money the more chance it has of being effective. It's all stepping stones for me. The dilution of unions make strikes less feasible. The protests started fairly peacefully but weren't getting anywhere. All it would have probably taken to stop the momentum was to arrest the four police and the longer this didn't happen the worse it got. Now with both sides essentially having a free for all views and issues will be even more entrenched facilitated in no small part by Trump doubling down on being a ball bag. Unfortunately the next step is terrorism unless they manage to put the fires out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 1 minute ago, ThistleWhistle said: Yeah defo - as soon as it starts costing money the more chance it has of being effective. It's all stepping stones for me. The dilution of unions make strikes less feasible. The protests started fairly peacefully but weren't getting anywhere. All it would have probably taken to stop the momentum was to arrest the four police and the longer this didn't happen the worse it got. Now with both sides essentially having a free for all views and issues will be even more entrenched facilitated in no small part by Trump doubling down on being a ball bag. Unfortunately the next step is terrorism unless they manage to put the fires out. The footage emerging of that jogger (Ahmaud Arbery) emerging and how everyone was just cleared before the "tape" came to light just before this amplifies everything as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wee-toon-red Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 9 hours ago, vanderark14 said: I cant answer that question because its not what im doing. Ive not made o e excuse for what happened npr have i deflectwd away from the crime. If you could point me in the direction of where i did that, please do so. Well, for a start you've suggested that the cop might not meant to have killed George Floyd, which is a strange, strange argument to be making when the guy can be heard begging for his life. Now if I've misinterpreted then fair enough but I've taken the general tone of your posts and a few others in thread to amount to "yes, that was bad but there's lots of other bad stuff too", which may very well also be true but looting and rioting don't compare to murder, and certainly don't make up for the decades of systemic racism which lead guys like Derek Chauvin to think it's ok to do what he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wee-toon-red Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 6 hours ago, thplinth said: When your argument is fundamentally horrendous you have to. You are able to condemn all acts of violence without thinking about it (and have done over and over again). They can't and that should tip you off about the nature of their internal 'thinking'. We are essentially being told here that the man's murder justifies all these horrible acts of violence on all these innocent people. Yet at the same time we are being told that it is racist to bring up these subsequent acts up or even to condemn them (and by people clearly unwilling to do so). So they want to use the killing to 'justify' all the horrible (often race motivated) crimes they are encouraging but at the same time call you are a racist if you connect them. You see the problem here. They are using a horrible crime to justify horrible crimes. They are no different from the cop and arguably far worse. Come on now, you're the one throwing up all these other incidents as some way of justifying what Derek Chauvin did, don't try and cast your whataboutery onto others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaundy Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 I have observed the XR ptrotests since they started the group not two years ago . Their NVCD non violent civil disobedience has been the most effective I have seen . Just need enough bodies willing to be arrested Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wee-toon-red Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 5 hours ago, kumnio said: Show me where I’ve once done that? You lot are mental, I’ve called out police violence god knows how many times just a few pages ago FFS. Bringing up other incidents is absolutely a deflection away from the case in point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, wee-toon-red said: Well, for a start you've suggested that the cop might not meant to have killed George Floyd, which is a strange, strange argument to be making when the guy can be heard begging for his life. Now if I've misinterpreted then fair enough but I've taken the general tone of your posts and a few others in thread to amount to "yes, that was bad but there's lots of other bad stuff too", which may very well also be true but looting and rioting don't compare to murder, and certainly don't make up for the decades of systemic racism which lead guys like Derek Chauvin to think it's ok to do what he did. The charge against chaivin is killed him without intent in the course of committing assault., thats where I go the part in bold from. Its not strange its what he is charged with accoring to CNN. You have definitely misinterpreted my posts because I haven't been close to comparing looting and rioting to murder nor have I suggest this makes up for years of systematic racism. With respect, you have me totally wrong 👍 Edited June 5, 2020 by vanderark14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave78 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 7 minutes ago, wee-toon-red said: Bringing up other incidents is absolutely a deflection away from the case in point. Not when the point being made is that the police have a general problem with brutalising citizens that cuts across all races. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ger intae them Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 No it isn’t, it goes some way towards balancing the events against the shocking (normal) behaviour of the police in other situations. The whole thing has very little to do with Floyd, he’s merely the spark...... and possibly, as Noah says, as is lock-down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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