1 Mistake In 10 Games...

[Kenneth Farrington]

Not making the playofs was an absolute failure. There are no excuses & you can't dress it up.

As I mentioned in another thread, not doing as badly as people expect seems to be passing for doing well these days.

If we finished 4th in that group, we sure as shit ain't getting near Russia. If Strachan has any sense, he'll go now before we get off to a stinker & are out of the running after a couple of games. I don't see that we've made great much progress under him, but that seems to be the general opinion & his popularity is still very high. That won't take long to change though.

[Langtonian]

Good post KF

Can't see why some don't see this campaign as a failure

[Charlie Endell]

Good post KF

Can't see why some don't see this campaign as a failure

They're deluded. Edited October 14, 2015 by Charlie Endell

[Marky]

Sorry if this sounds like I am splitting hairs, but Poland didn't qualify for a major tournament for 16 years before they finally made it to the WC in 2002. You could argue that it was harder to qualify for tournaments back then - the European Championship finals of 1988 and 1992 only consisted of 8 teams - but even so, the Poles had a lengthy spell in the wilderness. I would certainly have expected Scotland to beat them more often than during that period.

As far as Scotland are concerned, there's nae shame in drawing in Poland and Ireland; in isolation and even in the context of the group those are very respectable results. But if you are serious about qualifying rule number one has to be to win your home games. We used to have a fantastic record at home, even up until about 10 years ago, but since then we have become a bit of soft touch.

I wouldn’t say you were splitting hairs. What you say is true. OK, you say 16 years without qualifying, I could say 12 years of tournaments without qualifying. That gains me 4 years straight away.

I could also say that in those 8 tournaments we also failed to qualify for half of them.

I can only speak personally and say that I have been watching Scotland since I was 7 years old in 1973 and at no stage during that time would I have considered Scotland to be better than Poland (well maybe 1978 when were all deluded) and never would I have been confident of beating them. Incidentally, we have only beaten them twice in 10 attempts and one of those was in 1958.

Can’t argue with your second paragraph though. That is undoubtedly true.

[ScotlandFanMuir]

The campaign was failure to qualify, but as I have stated, up 1 game is what has ultimately cost us. It isn't abject failure or indeed embarrassing in my opinion.

For me, abject failure is the Dutch finishing fourth, Celtic not winning the league - or even the sheep fanciers not getting past Kairat Almaty.

We were 4th seeds who finished 4th.

No one is trying to dress this up as some sort of success, we just aren't as depressed about it all as you moaning faced s.

[Marky]

Good post KF

Can't see why some don't see this campaign as a failure

If you "can't see" it. I suggest you put your specs on coz its all there in my posts. Feel free to challenge those points rather than just congratulating another poster for saying essentially nothing.

[thplinth]

I think we have to give some credit to the Irish. Us taking 4 points and them only getting 1 point out of our two games together really put us in pole position (to end up 3rd if that makes sense). Even when we slipped up against Georgia that only put us back to neck and neck for 3rd. The fact is they then went out and got 3 points off Germany in their second last game. That is what gave them the lead at the last bend. They took 5 points out of their 4 games with Poland & Germany and we only got 2. They won it against Germany as much as we threw it away in Georgia.

edit the Irish redeemed their failure against us in our two games with success against Germany, we however did not redeem our failure against Georgia.

As for failure well it is undeniable we failed to get a play off spot.

Edited October 14, 2015 by thplinth

[thplinth]

If we had beat Georgia as we should have and got just one win out of the four games with Germany & Poland (instead of two draws) we would be in third. It was pretty close in the end but the loss in Georgia is hard to swallow it was the manner of it. To get so close and get into such a good position (versus Ireland) to just threw it away without any real fight was a massive kick in the balls. It was like being transported back in time to the worst of the Levien times. That is what makes it so hard to swallow.

[Charlie Endell]

If we had beat Georgia as we should have and got just one win out of the four games with Germany & Poland (instead of two draws) we would be in third. It was pretty close in the end but the loss in Georgia is hard to swallow it was the manner of it. To get so close and get into such a good position (versus Ireland) to just threw it away without any real fight was a massive kick in the balls. It was like being transported back in time to the worst of the Levien times. That is what makes it so hard to swallow.

Yip, we threw away a good start, which makes the subsequent nosedive even more depressing.

[Marky]

I think we have to give some credit to the Irish. Us taking 4 points and them only getting 1 point out of our two games together really put us in pole position (to end up 3rd if that makes sense). Even when we slipped up against Georgia that only put us back to neck and neck for 3rd. The fact is they then went out and got 3 points off Germany in their second last game. That is what gave them the lead at the last bend. They took 5 points out of their 4 games with Poland & Germany and we only got 2. They won it against Germany as much as we threw it away in Georgia.

edit the Irish redeemed their failure against us in our two games with success against Germany, we however did not redeem our failure against Georgia.

As for failure well it is undeniable we failed to get a play off spot.

Absolutely true Thplinth. Spot on.

And yes, it’s undeniable we failed in our attempt to achieve what we set out to do.

However statements like “abject failure” and “worst campaign in living memory” are so wide of the mark it’s unbelievable. Arrogance bordering on English levels.

Every team in Europe set out to achieve the same thing and more than half of then also failed to do so. This “divine right” pish gets my goat. Folk need to wise up. Every country of “our standing” qualifies now and again. It happens when you get that ideal combination of a good team and a decent draw. We haven’t had that since 98 as I’d say the only two teams we’ve had worthy of qualification was the one for 2008 and this one. Both stinking draws. Our time will come.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Marky

[thplinth]

Absolutely true Thplinth. Spot on.

And yes, it’s undeniable we failed in our attempt to achieve what we set out to do.

However statements like “abject failure” and “worst campaign in living memory” are so wide of the mark it’s unbelievable. Arrogance bordering on English levels.

Every team in Europe set out to achieve the same thing and more than half of then also failed to do so. This “divine right” pish gets my goat. Folk need to wise up. Every country of “our standing” qualifies now and again. It happens when you get that ideal combination of a good team and a decent draw. We haven’t had that since 98 as I’d say the only two teams we’ve had worthy of qualification was the one for 2008 and this one. Both stinking draws. Our time will come.

For a while there it was looking really promising. And overall it can hardly be described as catastrophic as campaigns go. Much like McLeish's campaign it failed but we had a decent go. Something about Georgia away but...That was the one game I watched where I felt very frustrated at the level of urgency and interest shown by the players. It was horrific viewing.

Other than that every other game I saw we had a go. What does worry is whether Strachan is picking the right squad and team from what is available. I was surprised he relied so heavily on Maloney throughout. He does seem to have his favorites rather be open minded. Then when it is not working he is too slow to change and the changes are too conservative. McLeish was much better at changing things when it was not working, much better.

.

Edited October 14, 2015 by thplinth

[Parklife]

ScotlandFanMuir, on 14 Oct 2015 - 3:06 PM, said:

The campaign was failure to qualify, but as I have stated, up 1 game is what has ultimately cost us.

Aye, it was pish the first time you said it and it's still pish now.

[Charlie Endell]

In the 20-odd years I've been going to games Scotland were most enjoyable to watch under McLeish - by a considerable margin - was annoyed and dismayed when he left for Birmingham (a top job I could have understood but Birmingham City ...).

Edited October 14, 2015 by Charlie Endell

[Marky]

What does worry is whether Strachan is picking the right squad and team from what is available. I was surprised he relied so heavily on Maloney throughout. He does seem to have his favorites rather be open minded. Then when it is not working he is too slow to change and the changes are too conservative. McLeish was much better at changing things when it was not working, much better.

.

This is very true. I am still very undecided about Strachan for the very reasons you mentions. I think he genuinely can get players playing for him. Whether it's the right players or not is another matter.

[thplinth]

Is it correct that had we beat Georgia 0-1 and not lost 1-0 we would be third equal on gaol difference with Ireland?

Would we then would have gone through as we beat them head to head?

If yes then yes that crucial one game is what made the difference between success and failure this campaign. (Still think we would have lost the play off but thatstill would have been better than this.)

[thplinth]

In the 20-odd years I've been going to games Scotland were most enjoyable to watch under McLeish - by a considerable margin - was annoyed and dismayed when he left for Birmingham (a top job I could have understood but Birmingham City ...).

We could not even hold onto him for 12 months. He was gone within a year. I said at the time he was the best manager we had had for at least the previous 20 (or 25) years.

That is the power of doing well managing Scotland. Club owners think if he can do that with Scotland he must be shit-hot. The fact the SFA are cheapskates means the manager will always be easy to poach. We will have this problem with anyone who turns out half decent. It is bit of a catch 22 situation we are in with this.

[nek]

Is it correct that had we beat Georgia 0-1 and not lost 1-0 we would be third equal on gaol difference with Ireland?

Would we then would have gone through as we beat them head to head?

If yes then yes that crucial one game is what made the difference between success and failure this campaign. (Still think we would have lost the play off but thatstill would have been better than this.)

or we could have beaten germany in either game, poland in either game, ireland away???.

we did bare minimum in these games and therefore did not earn ourselves a pass should we up one of the 'winnable' games.

thats what pisses me off so much about the mentality that draw in dublin was a great result, Scotland will always drop points in games we shouldnt and need to therefore win some we shouldnt as well

[Langtonian]

If you "can't see" it. I suggest you put your specs on coz its all there in my posts. Feel free to challenge those points rather than just congratulating another poster for saying essentially nothing.

Away with your condescending pish.I agreed with KF,s post(no congratulations) so why would I waste my time repeating it.Feel free to read his post again

The campaign was a failure something you have agreed with

It's all ifs and fukin buts

Edited October 14, 2015 by Langtonian

[thplinth]

The only game you can say we should have won but did not is Georgia. And had we won 0-1 the minimum win possible we would have got the playoff spot. Expecting 6 points off Ireland or a win against Germany is unrealistic but beating Georgia was not. We broke even on Poland and that was better than expected. It was the Georgia game that cost us.

[Marky]

The only game you can say we should have won but did not is Georgia. And had we won 0-1 the minimum win possible we would have got the playoff spot. Expecting 6 points off Ireland or a win against Germany is unrealistic but beating Georgia was not. We broke even on Poland and that was better than expected. It was the Georgia game that cost us.

Thplinth,

To be clear had we beaten Georgia by any score rather than losing we would have been in the play off.

Head to head ranked higher than goal difference in this tournament.

[Marky]

Away with your condescending pish.I agreed with KF,s post(no congratulations) so why would I waste my time repeating it.Feel free to read his post again

The campaign was a failure something you have agreed with

It's all ifs and fukin buts

I wasn't trying to be condescending. I was merely saying that you were agreeing with a post that essentially just said it was a failure. I feel that my posts at least tried to explain why it wasn't a failure.

[thplinth]

Thplinth,

To be clear had we beaten Georgia by any score rather than losing we would have been in the play off.

Head to head ranked higher than goal difference in this tournament.

So after we secured the head to head against Ireland goal difference was irrelevant versus them. How many times did we play Poland and Germany after that? Because we should have risked a thrashing for a win in those games especially.

[Armchair Bob]

The OP is correct in that it was the one result v Georgia that ultimately fecked us. Why is anyone having any problem with this? Other results (Ireland taking 4 out of 6 against Germany) were out of our hands. As far as our own performances go, it was Georgia away.

[Marky]

So after we secured the head to head against Ireland goal difference was irrelevant versus them. How many times did we play Poland and Germany after that? Because we should have risked a thrashing for a win in those games especially.

Well we played them both at home after we'd secured the head to head against Ireland but don't forget that the head to head could have ended up being against any of the 3 times. I agree we could probably have gone hell for leather against Germany as we had already lost to them and to extent I think we did. I do understand not going gung ho against Poland though. The draw we got would have been enough to see us through to the play off if Ireland hadn't beat Germany and no one saw that coming.

[Jagtag]

They're deluded.

No we're not. We're realistic. We can't go from what we were playing under Levein and Burley to expecting to qualify from a tough group. Walk before you can run. We needed to get back to actually playing football and at least trying to win and not just turn up playing not to get beat in the hope we might nick something.

Anyone who believed that we could qualify was on only the back of what Strachan did to turn us around and make us more positive in our play. Any manager needs time to build a successful team and Strachan is the only man for the job.