Pool Q Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 The nuclear weapon issue (including the use of the current trident system and its renewal) are part of the review. In the event that the party comes up with a 'pro nuclear' policy (unlikely I'd have said, but maybe not impossible) Corbyn would have to resign. How could he lead a party that was in favour of nuclear weapons while saying that, as PM, he was personally opposed to them and would refuse to use then. It is an interesting constitutional position too, if Parliament is pro nuclear deterrent, can a PM effectively declare unilateral disarmament? And that's before you factor in the military's response. Curious to see how this all develops, but this policy by review thing seems likely to either lead to discord between Corbyn and many front benchers and the PLP, or he'll have to get rid of half of the frontbenchers he appointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristolhibby Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Just out of curiosity, what is the general British publics take on Nuclear Weapons & Trident? Pro or against? Anyone know? J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DYLANGT7 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) Exactly. It's now unhelpful to be honest and say you wouldn't press the button to fry potentially millions of people? I'm extremely disappointed at the Unions too saying that nuclear weapons keeps people in a job. I'm pretty sure we could create a lot more socially beneficial jobs with £100 billion rather than building and maintaining weapons. I assume the people that are saying his comment that he would never push the button as unhelpful are coming from the point of view that Trident is only there as a deterent. The simple fact it is there is supposed to stop any potential all out attack against us and no-one ever would wish to use it and I guess following that logic maybe even Corbyn would have to re-consider his position if we did ever get to a War Game type scenario while he was PM. So assuming he ever got to be PM, its goes against the whole pretence of Trident being a deterent if he admits he would never push the button. Having lived in Dumbarton where maybe 30-40% of the jobs are at the base, my experience would back up the statement thats its only there as a deterent and never intended for use. Knowing the people that work there and hearing what goes on I'm pretty certian that when that button is pushed, the lights would flicker for a few seconds in Faslane then nothing would happen. From the outside its does seem to just be a job creation scheme to keep people off the streets. Edited September 30, 2015 by DYLANGT7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacWalka Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 I assume the people that are saying his comment that he would never push the button as unhelpful are coming from the point of view that Trident is only there as a deterent. The simple fact it is there is supposed to stop any potential all out attack against us and no-one ever would wish to use it and I guess following that logic maybe even Corbyn would have to re-consider his position if we did ever get to a War Game type scenario while he was PM. So assuming he ever got to be PM, its goes against the whole pretence of Trident being a deterent if he admits he would never push the button. Having lived in Dumbarton where maybe 30-40% of the jobs are at the base, my experience would back up the statement thats its only there as a deterent and never intended for use. Knowing the people that work there and hearing what goes on I'm pretty certian that when that button is pushed, the lights would flicker for a few seconds in Faslane then nothing would happen. From the outside its does seem to just be a job creation scheme to keep people off the streets. If it's designed as a deterrent, you still need to be willing to use it in order to make it a deterrent and if it's not designed to be used then it isn't a deterrent. If he is admitting that he would never press the button and that actually scares people in this country, then they shouldn't vote for him and avoid putting him in that position. I'm sure the people who want a nuclear deterrent want a PM that genuinely would be willing to push the button and I'm sure those against it are happy that he's admitting he wouldn't push it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stocky Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Just out of curiosity, what is the general British publics take on Nuclear Weapons & Trident? Pro or against? Anyone know? J Scotland against RUK for... 60% against in Scotland and 65+% for in RUK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pool Q Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Whether or not you believe in the UK having a nuclear deterrent, it is only a deterrent if there is a belief that, in certain circumstances, we would use it. Otherwise it is an even bigger waste of money than many of us have always believed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristolhibby Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Scotland against RUK for... 60% against in Scotland and 65+% for in RUK. So is that something like 70% for 30% against in the UK? A pretty good and strong yes IMO. Now of those 70%, would not having a deterrent prevent them voting for a Corbyn Labour? If it's a big number Corbyn/Labour needs to tread carefully. TBH he's said all he could possibly say at the moment, and his honesty must be applauded. But watch the media narrative turn into the PM who if the chips were done would "bottle it". It's all designed to cast doubt into those who might well vote for New Old Labour. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) Seems like a good opportunity to post this... Edited September 30, 2015 by Toepoke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 So is that something like 70% for 30% against in the UK? A pretty good and strong yes IMO. Now of those 70%, would not having a deterrent prevent them voting for a Corbyn Labour? If it's a big number Corbyn/Labour needs to tread carefully. TBH he's said all he could possibly say at the moment, and his honesty must be applauded. But watch the media narrative turn into the PM who if the chips were done would "bottle it". It's all designed to cast doubt into those who might well vote for New Old Labour. J I don't think nuclear weapons are that high on most folks list of issues when it comes to which party they vote for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted September 30, 2015 Author Share Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) Just out of curiosity, what is the general British publics take on Nuclear Weapons & Trident? Pro or against? Anyone know? J The last split poll I remember seeing had:48% Scots want scrapped and 25% Brits. http://m.heraldscotland.com/news/13198976.Poll__25__of_Brits_and_48__of_Scots_think_UK_should_scrap_Trident/ There was a much more recent poll that had 38% support across UK for like for like renew and 20- something % for a reduced capability. I'll try and find it. Edit: Here it is:https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/04/14/tories-have-edge-defence-trident/ Edited September 30, 2015 by Scunnered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristolhibby Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 I don't think nuclear weapons are that high on most folks list of issues when it comes to which party they vote for. True, but the drip, drip against Corbyn/Labour has begun in Ernest. Nuclear deterrent might not be top of the list, but could make up a suite of key policy points that may sway voters. Still at least issues (across the spectrum) are being discussed and brought into the open. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted September 30, 2015 Author Share Posted September 30, 2015 GMB call for Corbyns resignation if he won't adopt pro Trident stance... That escalated quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacWalka Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 GMB call for Corbyns resignation if he won't adopt pro Trident stance... That escalated quickly. Jesus wept.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 GMB call for Corbyns resignation if he won't adopt pro Trident stance... That escalated quickly. The GMB could've done a job representing the Sonderkommando at Auschwitz. Ooops Godwin's, sorry... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillinger Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) unless you are in Islington you arent voting for him, you are voting for the Labour party. Obvious at this stage that the two are miles apart on a number of important issues. Well, obviously. But I mean I would vote Labour in order to help return seats that get him into power. At the moment I still plan to vote SNP in both the next elections Edited September 30, 2015 by Dillinger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Bob Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Just out of curiosity, what is the general British publics take on Nuclear Weapons & Trident? Pro or against? Anyone know? J If you want to know the opinions of the general British public, read the Daily Mail. We (i.e. the British, of which the Scots are a barely less ish subset) are a bunch of s when it comes to the moral issues of the day. Pro hanging, pro nukes, pro invading other countries, pro austerity (unless it affects us directly), pro monarchy, pro BBC, hate the neebours, anti immigration, couldnae gie a about climate change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Bob Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Can I just say how refreshing it is to not have a word like turned into Rooney. Arse bars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintlyscot Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 The labour party conference under Corbyn resembled a minor trade body conference. By not demanding that conference debate trident he made a huge error and showed himself weak. It should have been a line in the sand moment for him and his party. Instead, he gave in to his national executive on the behest of mccluskey and blairites and gave in. I'm surprised by the tone of some on here - I think his first week or two have been a total car crash and unless he grows a set real quick and uses his mandate he will be out by xmas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristolhibby Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 If you want to know the opinions of the general British public, read the Daily Mail. We (i.e. the British, of which the Scots are a barely less ish subset) are a bunch of s when it comes to the moral issues of the day. Pro hanging, pro nukes, pro invading other countries, pro austerity (unless it affects us directly), pro monarchy, pro BBC, hate the neebours, anti immigration, couldnae gie a about climate change. Democracy is a . As has been pointed out, sadly when people are on their own in a ballot box they (the majority) are selfish s. (See Shy Tories and Shy Nos). J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenfrewBlue Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 The labour party conference under Corbyn resembled a minor trade body conference. By not demanding that conference debate trident he made a huge error and showed himself weak. It should have been a line in the sand moment for him and his party. Instead, he gave in to his national executive on the behest of mccluskey and blairites and gave in. I'm surprised by the tone of some on here - I think his first week or two have been a total car crash and unless he grows a set real quick and uses his mandate he will be out by xmas.This.His party votes through their manifesto including renewal of Trident. If he's so opposed to it he'd have wanted it debated at the conference but he didn't push for it. Weak leader who seems to have a sensible head on but just isn't Living up to his own leadership contest hype. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) Whatever you think of Corbyn or Labour or Trident, it is very difficult to imagine the British electorate allowing near the door of no.10 a guy who says out loud that he'd never press the nuclear button. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/30/corbyn-i-would-never-use-nuclear-weapons-if-i-was-pm Edited September 30, 2015 by exile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andymac Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 If you want to know the opinions of the general British public, read the Daily Mail. We (i.e. the British, of which the Scots are a barely less ish subset) are a bunch of s when it comes to the moral issues of the day. Pro hanging, pro nukes, pro invading other countries, pro austerity (unless it affects us directly), pro monarchy, pro BBC, hate the neebours, anti immigration, couldnae gie a about climate change. An excuse to shoehorn this in....... https://www.facebook.com/BritainsBiggestTossers/videos/1032184973473162/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Bob Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Democracy is a . As has been pointed out, sadly when people are on their own in a ballot box they (the majority) are selfish s. (See Shy Tories and Shy Nos). J The mistake the Yes campaign made last year was in appealing to people's better nature. Let yes 2 be a campaign for weekly public hangings performed by royalty in a tax haven for the rich. Our ####witted citizenry would no doubt vote for that in their droves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 GMB call for Corbyns resignation if he won't adopt pro Trident stance... That escalated quickly. Did they support him in the leadership contest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted September 30, 2015 Author Share Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) Did they support him in the leadership contest?No. They didn't endorse a candidate, but some Corbyn supporting members claim they received emails from GMB saying to vote Burnham... But that could just be shenanigans on the part of the 'Corbynistas', as they'd have been much more likely to call for Kendall. Edited September 30, 2015 by Scunnered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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