What They Really Think Of Us

[giblet]

I'll let you answer your own question. However, I do think it's possible that an immigrant planning on getting to the RUK via an independent Scotland might plan a different route than the one that most currently take, thus making your question irrelevant. Let me be clear, I'm not suggesting (and neither is Miliband) that we place armed guards at the border from day one. However, if it turns out that a lot of illegal immigrants are coming to the RUK via an independent Scotland, then I would expect our government to do something about it. As such, I have no problem with Miliband saying that it "would have to be looked at" as an option. That doesn't mean it WILL happen, it just means it's an option.

Only route in is via ferry from UKOK governed Northern Ireland or by flight where controls easily implemented. How they going to sneak in?

[Rossy]

Once I'd confronted the middle class middle aged fuckwits, I got the full gammut of the views of middle England....ranging from 'we hate salmond' to ' if you vote yes you'll be back'.

It was an interesting experience meeting pure ignorance head on.

[euan2020]

I'll let you answer your own question. However, I do think it's possible that an immigrant planning on getting to the RUK via an independent Scotland might plan a different route than the one that most currently take, thus making your question irrelevant. Let me be clear, I'm not suggesting (and neither is Miliband) that we place armed guards at the border from day one. However, if it turns out that a lot of illegal immigrants are coming to the RUK via an independent Scotland, then I would expect our government to do something about it. As such, I have no problem with Miliband saying that it "would have to be looked at" as an option. That doesn't mean it WILL happen, it just means it's an option.

this is all so contradictory - the borders are not going to be any more porous than they are today , so if you are worried that folk can enter scotland to get to england, they can do this today and you shoud have a border already today - as has been said there is no border in Irleland

I even know of people who fly into Ireland cos they got declined a UK visit visa

If anyone needs a border its on the scotland side, due to all the dodgy student visa's that are being handed out in London

[Maq]

Why would an 'immigrant' who was able to come to Scotland, and therefore presumably welcome, want to try to 'get into' the rUK, where they aren't welcome?

Scotland needs more immigrants, the UKaybe doesn't so much

[Squirrelhumper]

Sat in a restaurant in Spain last night listening to 3 middle class, middle aged people discuss the referendum from a postion of utter ignorance.

Vile, bigoted, anti Scottish hate poured out of them until I had to interject and ask them politely to shut the badger up.

Sadly, this seems utterly typical of the English viewpoint.

They're consumed by bitterness about this.

Wkll make a Yes victory all the sweeter.

[neilser]

Simon Heffer's attempt at love bombing:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2750071/Why-don-t-tell-Scots-shove-In-personal-view-Mail-disagrees-SIMON-HEFFER-says-fear-English-people-think.html

As an Englishman, I feel my country has done all it can for Scotland and the Scots, sharing our country and wealth in the most open-handed way, while being branded as exploiters in return by a people for whom a vindictive ingratitude now seems to be a way of life.

As far as I’m concerned, the Scots are welcome to believe the untruths, distortions and downright lies Mr Salmond and his pals have decided to tell about the Union so they can get their hands on complete power.

If they really do feel the English are so toxic for them, there is nothing left to say except: clear off, good riddance and tell us where to send the bill for more than 300 years of subsidy.

[glasgow jock]

Simon Heffer's attempt at love bombing:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2750071/Why-don-t-tell-Scots-shove-In-personal-view-Mail-disagrees-SIMON-HEFFER-says-fear-English-people-think.html

You've gorra larfff

[Rossy]

Simon Heffer's attempt at love bombing:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2750071/Why-don-t-tell-Scots-shove-In-personal-view-Mail-disagrees-SIMON-HEFFER-says-fear-English-people-think.html

Racist fuckwit.

Uses the excuse of 'journalism' to publish his tiny minded, fascist views.

[tartandon]

One way sums up this guy.

Fucktard

[Thpinth]

Why would an 'immigrant' who was able to come to Scotland, and therefore presumably welcome, want to try to 'get into' the rUK, where they aren't welcome?

Scotland needs more immigrants, the UKaybe doesn't so much

Depends on the immigrant.

when it comes to needing immigrants who behave well and integrate, and not needing Jihadists or other kinds of troublemaker and refusenik, our needs are exactly the same.

[scotsgary1]

Depends on your point of view here...

But I live in ENGLAND sadly

And can tell you that they think we are pretty much second class citizens...

PISS HEADS LIKE A good crack the normal reply

[Taunton Tartan]

I agree with Miliband that the border situation would need to be looked at. Let's be realistic about this - look at the situation in Calais with immigrants trying to get into the UK and France pretty much turning a blind eye to it. If those people decided to go instead via an independent Scotland, the rest of the UK would need to deal with that. Just as an independent Scotland would have the right to check who is going the other way.

I've just returned from Dortmund. Drove out last friday, drove back monday. Had passport checked at the ferry terminal both ends of the journey.

Drove from France, into Belgium, crossing the border several times. Then from Belgium to Germany, via Holland. Return journey was the reverse route.

Not one check point or border control anywhere.

The other year went to Slovenia via Italy. Same thing. Although a small checkpoint at the border, it was unmanned.

Nothing will change after the 18th, unless BT/rUK are sooking soor plooms.

[kumnio]

I agree with Miliband that the border situation would need to be looked at. Let's be realistic about this - look at the situation in Calais with immigrants trying to get into the UK and France pretty much turning a blind eye to it. If those people decided to go instead via an independent Scotland, the rest of the UK would need to deal with that. Just as an independent Scotland would have the right to check who is going the other way.

Why dont these people just go to Dublin, Shannon etc

They could then just get a ferry to Great Britain without being asked for ID.

Miliband is a cnt, he should be ashamed of himself, his parents are immigrants to this country, so using them to scare people in voting No is an absolute disgrace.

[Thpinth]

Once I'd confronted the middle class middle aged fuckwits, I got the full gammut of the views of middle England....ranging from 'we hate salmond' to ' if you vote yes you'll be back'.

I think you're all too eager to believe that this viewpoint is representative of the way every single English person, or at least the overwhelming majority thinks.

I hardly qualify as Middle England - for a start I don't live in suburbia, have twin garages or go on skiing holidays - but as a proud Englishman and something of a tub-thumping English nationalist who completely rejects any sense of a "British identity" I realise the constitutional anomalies inherent in the current "devolved powers" arrangement. There's no bunging the toothpaste back in the tube so Scottish independence is the best solution, provided that's what the people of Scotland want. It'll happen sooner or later anyway - the sooner the better in my view. I think the English are finally starting to become convinced that there is a real desire for independence in Scotland - it has taken a long time to wake up to that fact, but for me that has a lot to do with the fact that the Scottish electorate has never really shown its desire for independence through a strong SNP presence at Westminster.

The English are generally a fair-minded people, as a people we tend not to be arrogant colonialists and as Scottish support for independence grows, there too will be more support for it in the south. The whole drawn out Scottish independence has been, and will continue to be, a bit of a psychological trauma for many English folks - that's not necessarily a bad thing but it is bound to have some unpleasant consequences along the way.

Not suggesting that we are in the majority by any means, but there are plenty of us who see Scottish independence as an essential step towards the re-emergence of an English nation state so actively support a YES. We view eventual separation as a natural process of history whereby all of the traditional nation-states of Europe will reassert themselves in time, and that the people will feel better for it as unnatural superstates die off and are forgotten.

Britishness, to me, is a distraction - a phoney identity that stands in the way of progress. Think "Britain" and you're thinking of old, irrelevant baggage and living in the past. Think "England" / "Scotland" / "Wales" and you're on the same wavelength as the ordinary people and you have the correct focus for improving society IMHO. It's also obvious to me that far from strengthening, the links between England and Scotland will inevitably melt away like snow over the next few decades. Just compare where we are now to where we were 20 years ago. That's not to say that the "social union" won't persist in some form (and a good thing too).

I can see why threads like "What They Really Think of Us" serve a purpose because it suits a certain agenda to drive a wedge between English and Scottish people, but that doesn't make such claims accurate. I find it all a bit depressing, I actually feel I have lot more in common with a Scottish nationalist than an English Unionist. I think I mentioned this on another thread recently, but of the regular English posters on this forum I don't believe any is antagonistic towards Scottish nationalism, and there are no Billy Britains among us who try to browbeat you into abandoning nationalism and being good unionists.

[giblet]

I think you're all too eager to believe that this viewpoint is representative of the way every single English person, or at least the overwhelming majority thinks.

I hardly qualify as Middle England - for a start I don't live in suburbia, have twin garages or go on skiing holidays - but as a proud Englishman and something of a tub-thumping English nationalist who completely rejects any sense of a "British identity" I realise the constitutional anomalies inherent in the current "devolved powers" arrangement. There's no bunging the toothpaste back in the tube so Scottish independence is the best solution, provided that's what the people of Scotland want. It'll happen sooner or later anyway - the sooner the better in my view. I think the English are finally starting to become convinced that there is a real desire for independence in Scotland - it has taken a long time to wake up to that fact, but for me that has a lot to do with the fact that the Scottish electorate has never really shown its desire for independence through a strong SNP presence at Westminster.

The English are generally a fair-minded people, as a people we tend not to be arrogant colonialists and as Scottish support for independence grows, there too will be more support for it in the south. The whole drawn out Scottish independence has been, and will continue to be, a bit of a psychological trauma for many English folks - that's not necessarily a bad thing but it is bound to have some unpleasant consequences along the way.

Not suggesting that we are in the majority by any means, but there are plenty of us who see Scottish independence as an essential step towards the re-emergence of an English nation state so actively support a YES. We view eventual separation as a natural process of history whereby all of the traditional nation-states of Europe will reassert themselves in time, and that the people will feel better for it as unnatural superstates die off and are forgotten.

Britishness, to me, is a distraction - a phoney identity that stands in the way of progress. Think "Britain" and you're thinking of old, irrelevant baggage and living in the past. Think "England" / "Scotland" / "Wales" and you're on the same wavelength as the ordinary people and you have the correct focus for improving society IMHO. It's also obvious to me that far from strengthening, the links between England and Scotland will inevitably melt away like snow over the next few decades. Just compare where we are now to where we were 20 years ago. That's not to say that the "social union" won't persist in some form (and a good thing too).

I can see why threads like "What They Really Think of Us" serve a purpose because it suits a certain agenda to drive a wedge between English and Scottish people, but that doesn't make such claims accurate. I find it all a bit depressing, I actually feel I have lot more in common with a Scottish nationalist than an English Unionist. I think I mentioned this on another thread recently, but of the regular English posters on this forum I don't believe any is antagonistic towards Scottish nationalism, and there are no Billy Britains among us who try to browbeat you into abandoning nationalism and being good unionists.

If we vote NO on Thursday, the only way we will get Independence is when your nation votes for it. We wont have such a perfect storm again in our favour.

[dave]

Why dont these people just go to Dublin, Shannon etc

They could then just get a ferry to Great Britain without being asked for ID.

Miliband is a bunny rabbit, he should be ashamed of himself, his parents are immigrants to this country, so using them to scare people in voting No is an absolute disgrace.

I presume because they're illegally in France and don't have documents/schengen visas to get to Eire in the first place!

[antidote]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2745705/SIMON-HEFFER-The-silver-lining-English-Scots-alone.html

How do they get get away with publishing that sort of absolute nonsense. Subsidised?? Dependency culture? It truly is staggering they still think that. I hope there is no currency union and those self righteous, ignorant feel the pain of the removal of their "subsidies" to us. It will cripple them.

Did Alan write that?

[kumnio]

I presume because they're illegally in France and don't have documents/schengen visas to get to Eire in the first place!

Correct.

So how the hell will they get to Edinburgh/Glasgow to try and gain entry to fUK.

Its just utter tripe from yet another Westminster whank.

[dave]

Correct.

So how the hell will they get to Edinburgh/Glasgow to try and gain entry to fUK.

Its just utter tripe from yet another Westminster whank.

Depending on the outcome next week and on the future Scottish govt immigration policy they may want to head from NI/England/Wales to Scotland! Can't see UK immigration officials stopping them from leaving England at the border.....

[Hertsscot]

If we vote NO on Thursday, the only way we will get Independence is when your nation votes for it. We wont have such a perfect storm again in our favour.

Absolutely. Scotland will be independent again, let's not do it when the last drop of oil has been passed against the wall. I think the rather belated attempts by London based politicians, the firebombing and scaremongering actually show this is an opportune time for Scotland to liberate herself from a political union that is past its sell by date.