Craig Murray

[Flure]

Southsidegrrrl ‏@Southsidegrrrl

On the SNP candidate's row; @nataliemcgarry who has openly opposed SNP NATO policy was then selected for by-election and will stand again.

[Ally Bongo]

Craig Murray has a lot to answer for and im actually glad he wasnt selected

[Flure]

Southsidegrrrl ‏@Southsidegrrrl

On the SNP candidate's row; @nataliemcgarry who has openly opposed SNP NATO policy was then selected for by-election and will stand again.

Natalie McGarry ‏@nataliemcgarry

Being in a political party is about celebrating collective talents. Not a one man mission. Reactions are pretty telling.

[phart]

Southsidegrrrl ‏@Southsidegrrrl

On the SNP candidate's row; @nataliemcgarry who has openly opposed SNP NATO policy was then selected for by-election and will stand again.

So what's being said here? That it wasn't his ability to play "team-ball" as explained that is the problem? Therefore he was not selected for other reasons? the other tweet further down it implies it was that "one-man missions" aren't welcome. One has to go with the selection panel as opposed to twitter though in deciding what the real reasoning was. Otherwise it looks like the selection panel said one reason but meant another.

[Colkitto]

Craig Murray isn't suited for party politics, that's now very apparent. If he wants into politics he should stand as an independent candidate

The vetting done it's job simple as that!

You can't have mavericks all over the place as discipline will evaporate and leave any leader vulnerable. That's why most mavericks are no longer tolerated in ANY party.

Those who don't toe the party line are a gift to the opposition. In the Westminster election every MP will count for the SNP and could be the difference in what powers we could receive.

Any MP leaving the party once elected diminishes the bargaining power of the SNP. It's crucial the party is united down there!

[phart]

What's more important giving constituents the best possible MSP's or asking psychometric questions that ensure you have personalities who are more likely to follow orders.

My own personality of being a contrarian means it doesn't sit well with me. Subservience isn't really a trait i'd look for in my own MSP.

Although if we're just riding the SNP to independence it may be best to get everything in order in a nice tight group and finish the job. at the same time i've been compromising my own ideals for my entire political life to vote SNP,i don't want to wait up at 60 not having independence and not having expressed myself truthfully in any election for 40 years.

[Jacobite]

The bedroom tax was just the issue that was used. Over twenty years ago at a council selection interview I was asked how I would react if the party had backed a sewage treatment works in the village. I said I'd toe the line but I wanted a swimming pool as compensation. Got through OK,but the party were a bit more desperate back then.

[Flure]

"The Craig Murray story is not really a story: Man applies for a job – gets interview – is rejected. Unusually, it has a second part: Man has chance to appeal and does so – appeal confirms rejection. The end."

http://inthepublicsphere.wordpress.com/2014/12/28/the-snp-was-right-to-reject-craig-murray-as-a-westminster-candidate/

"Craig Murray described No voters as ‘thick' and now @theSNP haven’t selected him for #GE2015, he attacks them. Glad SNP didn’t select him!

— Mìcheal Marten (@MichaelMarten) December 27, 2014"

[Lamia]

This says it all

http://inthepublicsphere.wordpress.com/2014/12/28/the-snp-was-right-to-reject-craig-murray-as-a-westminster-candidate/

[phart]

So the folk who have abrogated their own thinking to twitter and blogs and sit silent while they let others explain their own position think folk who deviate from a standardised centralised message shouldn't be selected for a political party on the basis they might stray, yeah seems normal.

the article is sophistry i looked up the duties of an MP in Parliaments own literature and the definitions do not match. He then sets up a straw-man by re-interpeting the question in a totally illogical way to say it was actually a test of his ability to "(we need political representatives who can) think fast and sensibly under pressure", yet the response by the SNP indicate it wasn't a question defined in that way at all. He then in his brief comments contradicts his earlier statement.

Originally it was "I’m not in the interview room. But we need political representatives who can think fast and sensibly under pressure; he didn’t demonstrate an ability to do so and therefore failed the interview."

yet in the notes "...but was simply about presenting an extreme scenario to test his commitment to group discipline.".. therefore he failed the interview.

Anyway he is of course right to say about calling folk stupid etc, he might be unelectable which would automatically preclude you from standing, why put forward someone unelectable when you're trying to win as many seats as possible.

For me Craig Murray is a man of integrity (until proven otherwise) that is the number one quality i want. I don't care about party loyalty MP's have had that trait for centuries what use has it been? I don't care about thinking folk who oppose your political ideas are daft or whatever, again we've had MP's who've obviously thought that, in fact a whole house of them, again has this trait been beneficial to society? No i would say, i just don't recognise these traits as particularly useful ones , i do however view the trait where ones commitment to the truth isn't compromised when his entire career is threatened, sacked and made a pariah to highlight people being tortured as extremely desirable.

Of course this is my own opinion and everyone will want different things from their MP's, i accept that some folk might not want him as he could be used as a big wedge etc.

Edited December 28, 2014 by phart

[Lamia]

I don't think the issue is about deviating from the party line. I don't think someone who says No voters are thick etc etc is a suitable candidate. They should have just said that was the reason and i don't see how anyone could criticise that position

[phart]

I don't think the issue is about deviating from the party line. I don't think someone who says No voters are thick etc etc is a suitable candidate. They should have just said that was the reason and i don't see how anyone could criticise that position

I agree, his comments on being "evil or thick" would certainly be more than enough, i'm surprised they just didn't say it instead of all this wasted words on reasoning out the group discipline. Mr Murray you called 55% of the electorate thick or evil, the news is predominately against us and you'll be unelectable in a seat that is already going to be hard as hell to take, so you're not a suitable candidate for us.

Transparency is a good thing with political parties obfuscation is not a trait i seek in those i chose to govern the country.

However considering the moves and compromises the Lib Dems did last time to leverage power at westminster and the current consequences of such i doubt the SNP would be trying anything similiar, having folk that will tell the whip to feck off ensures it though.

I'd have liked to have him in parliament he can always run as an independent anyway.

[the_burger]

I like Murray. But I suspected there would be trouble when I read on his blog that he wanted to stand as an SNP candidate.

As Scunnered has argued at length, the SNP aren't exactly a bastion of progressive politics. I don't think Murray could have reconciled himself to many of their policies, even if it was just as a vehicle to deliver independence. Not his style.

[Flure]

As Scunnered has argued at length,

Perhaps "consistently", or even "for a long time", but not, I would suggest "at length".

[phart]

Always quick to the real heart of the matter lol.

[the_burger]

Perhaps "consistently", or even "for a long time", but not, I would suggest "at length".

I stand corrected

[Scunnered]

Perhaps "consistently", or even "for a long time", but not, I would suggest "at length".

Oh?

[Flure]

Oh?

It's just that I think that continually repeating their stance on corporation tax isn't really "arguing at length".

It's a point of view. And it has merits. But I just don't think it's "arguing at length". That expression to me suggests a comprehensive review, forensically debated and countered, with an appropriate conclusion drawn at the end.

I might be wrong.

[Scunnered]

It's just that I think that continually repeating their stance on corporation tax isn't really "arguing at length".

It's a point of view. And it has merits. But I just don't think it's "arguing at length". That expression to me suggests a comprehensive review, forensically debated and countered, with an appropriate conclusion drawn at the end.

I might be wrong.

You're focussing on one point, albeit a big one. I've brought up numerous reasons why the SNP are harbouring a right wing agenda. The draft budget, voting down living wage bills, Swinney's chat on reforming public services with input from the private sector, the rail decision, pandering to their corporate donators, love affair with Murdoch. It always returns to corporation tax as that for the moment is a hypothetical situation, but the intent and sheer desperation is there.

Do you believe the SNP to have progressive ideals? I just don't see it. At all.

[thplinth]

The SNP are about as left wing as any party dares these days...yet you the most left wing person on here spends all day attacking them. Ok we get it you don't like them. But what are you offering or suggesting instead? It is piss easy like Alan to attack attack attack on here while keeping your flag hidden but who do you say we should vote for Scunnered?

We all know who you dont like...

[Return of Yermaw]

You're focussing on one point, albeit a big one. I've brought up numerous reasons why the SNP are harbouring a right wing agenda. The draft budget, voting down living wage bills, Swinney's chat on reforming public services with input from the private sector, the rail decision, pandering to their corporate donators, love affair with Murdoch. It always returns to corporation tax as that for the moment is a hypothetical situation, but the intent and sheer desperation is there.

Do you believe the SNP to have progressive ideals? I just don't see it. At all.

You consistently pick up on one point but conveniently ignore the SNP policies and views on immigration, welfare, Europe, education, nuclear weapons, etc........So ignoring the one point you constantly raise for one moment, how would you describe the SNP's position in terms of the political spectrum on these issues?

[Stapes]

I've been through the selection process before and was asked a very similar question. I answered it in much the same way, as I believe that constituents should take precedence over party. I still got the gig. I'm also being told by someone who's been part of several selection panels that you won't fail a selection on a single answer.

[scotlad]

I have time for Murray, mainly down to his calling out of Blair and Straw and some of his input before the referendum. I think he is very much his own man, however, and it's no great surprise that he wasn't picked. The 'group discipline' explanation for his rejection is probably just a tactful way of saying 'Craig, we think you are a bit of a rocket and we have decided to go with a pair of hands'. His 'toys oot the pram' reaction suggests that they have made the right decision too.

Is he a plant? Well, I can understand people's suspicions over someone so firmly part of the British establishment suddenly turning against it, and then latching on to a cause that jeopardises its very existence. Politics is full of people whose motives are not quite clear though. The person apparently favourite to stand in Falkirk, one of the constituencies he expressed an interest in standing for, Tasmina Ahmend Sheik, could also fall under this category, albeit she is almost the exact opposite of what Murray appears to be: a careerist flip-flopper who would bare her bum in Frasers shop window if her party instructed her to. To suggest Murray is a plant is a bit 'tin foil hat' though. However, his comments regarding the bedroom tax question has presented Labour with some ammunition, which pisses me off.

[Lamia]

I have time for Murray, mainly down to his calling out of Blair and Straw and some of his input before the referendum. I think he is very much his own man, however, and it's no great surprise that he wasn't picked. The 'group discipline' explanation for his rejection is probably just a tactful way of saying 'Craig, we think you are a bit of a rocket and we have decided to go with a pair of hands'. His 'toys oot the pram' reaction suggests that they have made the right decision too.

Is he a plant? Well, I can understand people's suspicions over someone so firmly part of the British establishment suddenly turning against it, and then latching on to a cause that jeopardises its very existence. Politics is full of people whose motives are not quite clear though. The person apparently favourite to stand in Falkirk, one of the constituencies he expressed an interest in standing for, Tasmina Ahmend Sheik, could also fall under this category, albeit she is almost the exact opposite of what Murray appears to be: a careerist flip-flopper who would bare her bum in Frasers shop window if her party instructed her to. To suggest Murray is a plant is a bit 'tin foil hat' though. However, his comments regarding the bedroom tax question has presented Labour with some ammunition, which pisses me off.

I don't think it is tin foil hat at all. I think it is naive in the extreme to dismiss it in such a way. I also have very little time for Tasmina all she cares about is her career as far as I can see

[Scunnered]

The SNP are about as left wing as any party dares these days...yet you the most left wing person on here spends all day attacking them. Ok we get it you don't like them. But what are you offering or suggesting instead? It is piss easy like Alan to attack attack attack on here while keeping your flag hidden but who do you say we should vote for Scunnered?

We all know who you dont like...

Again I've been through this, but it conveniently gets ignored. I want people to continue with the progressive voice that the indyref campaign seemed to carry, which means the SNP membership using their suggested influence to have their party reflect this... But the membership are too distracted by the independence question, and obsessing over red Tories to give a dn about their party. I also doubt the SNP have a voice, the party policy will be dictated by their wealthy donators.

In short, I want people to vote SNP to further the independence campaign, and I want people to stop lying to the electorate that the SNP are progressive and influence party policy to make it true.