Tyler Fletcher - Going to the World Cup

[thelonehutch]

Once again Clarke cannot win🤔 some people genuinely want him to fail, just so they can say I told you so🤦

I really don't understand the animosity levels towards our manager 🤷🏻 

[DoonTheSlope]

33 minutes ago, theabsentee said:

I only replied to you as I didn't want to give the only poster on here that I don't particularly respect the pleasure of a long-winded reply. He goes by the username of Souness and suggested Jack might follow suit and switch, which is something none of us can answer currently. 

 This character has previous and had me and possibly a few others here almost convinced that he had inside knowledge that Barnes had committed to us and would be selected for the March friendlies. That thread went on for quite a while, as I'm sure you're aware. 

  It wasn't meant to be a criticism of your thoughts within your post.

Apologies for the misunderstanding. I’ve also always took what he said to be true and at face value as he comes across as our man on the inside

Once again, I offer my apologies for the misunderstanding on my part 

[p gala ta]

I would certainly have had Miller in the squad for the experience but let’s be honest ,I’ve watched quite a few Udinese games this season and he has hardly set the heather on fire ,hasn’t started many games or come on as a late  sub so to say he has olayed 22 games is misleading ,he’s been pretty anonymous in the games I’ve watched . Mind you Udinese are a boring team to watch so may not be Lenon’s fault.

England seem to have a policy of contacting any young player with dual qualification to tell them not to play for us .Rumour has it that Elliot Anderson was phoned up by Southgate while training at Lesser Hampden with Scotland  he immediately withdrew from our squad . If we can tie up Tyler Fletcher then brilliant ,and perhaps we can then tempt his brother .

Seems a good move to me and he looked pretty competent against limited opponents .The Scotland coaches will know better than anyone on this board if Tyler Fletcher will be an asset .

[DoonTheSlope]

Just a thought. If it’s only been decided overnight that Fletcher would be going instead of Miller, Irving or AN Other could it be because they can’t get the other players ESTAs or Visas etc in time?

Fletcher was already going as a member of the training squad so no further admin work required 

[mccaughey85]

41 minutes ago, thelonehutch said:

Once again Clarke cannot win🤔 some people genuinely want him to fail, just so they can say I told you so🤦

I really don't understand the animosity levels towards our manager 🤷🏻 

This board used to be good for having debates with level headed individuals but it's gone downhill badly this past 2 years. 

This board should be full of positivity and praise for the team and Clarke but instead it's full of oddballs looking to hate on anything he does. 

And if you disagree with them you are labelled a "brain dead parrot".

Thats the level of intellect we are dealing with.

[runningtings]

26 minutes ago, DoonTheSlope said:

Just a thought. If it’s only been decided overnight that Fletcher would be going instead of Miller, Irving or AN Other could it be because they can’t get the other players ESTAs or Visas etc in time?

Fletcher was already going as a member of the training squad so no further admin work required 

Possibly, also think it was easier all round to just include him as he was already part of the preparation and by all accounts they had been surprised by his level in the few days training earlier in the week.

[kumnio]

Watching 28 Summers, Lennon Miller has been mentioned, so can't see there being any issues between him and the squad or manager, so that's one excuse for ignoring him ruled out.

[bdgsct]

1 hour ago, thelonehutch said:

Once again Clarke cannot win🤔 some people genuinely want him to fail, just so they can say I told you so🤦

I really don't understand the animosity levels towards our manager 🤷🏻 

No one wants him or the team to fail. I actually quite like him as a character. I do question some of his decisions but respect that he is in the best position to make them. Overall I tend to think the fairest way to judge him is based on our performance relative to the strength of the opposition acknowledging the relative quality of our squad. The reason people question Clarke is the poor performances of the team. Even despite the club atmosphere and cult like loyalty on both sides we tend to throw in some horrendous performances such as Greece (x3) and Belarus at home (along with numerous friendlies). The fact that so many recognise the issue despite the huge success of qualifying probably suggests its probably a valid concern.

[Caledonian Craig]

5 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

This board used to be good for having debates with level headed individuals but it's gone downhill badly this past 2 years. 

This board should be full of positivity and praise for the team and Clarke but instead it's full of oddballs looking to hate on anything he does. 

And if you disagree with them you are labelled a "brain dead parrot".

Thats the level of intellect we are dealing with.

Agreed.

It is ludicrous the stuff invented or exaggerated in a blatant attempt to create another stick to beat Clarke with - that is the sad reality we are dealing with here. Heck it even stretches to having a pop at our own players (clearly hated on) in a bid to ratchet up resentment to get them elbowed out of the squad (Kenny McLean) when, quite obviously, he is very popular in and around the squad. Tell you what if the keyboard warriors went up to their idols McGinn and McTominay and said what they say on here they'd tell them to piss off 

[Caledonian Craig]

4 hours ago, bdgsct said:

No one wants him or the team to fail. I actually quite like him as a character. I do question some of his decisions but respect that he is in the best position to make them. Overall I tend to think the fairest way to judge him is based on our performance relative to the strength of the opposition acknowledging the relative quality of our squad. The reason people question Clarke is the poor performances of the team. Even despite the club atmosphere and cult like loyalty on both sides we tend to throw in some horrendous performances such as Greece (x3) and Belarus at home (along with numerous friendlies). The fact that so many recognise the issue despite the huge success of qualifying probably suggests its probably a valid concern.

Can I add horrendous showings but a lot of those games we won. Winning is the name of the game and is all that matters. I have seen lots of Scotland teams play well and lose (it's happened with us under Clarke too). But by jesus we were on our f**"ing knees and going nowhere - pariahs at major tournaments for over twenty years and now look at us? Three of the last four major tournaments qualified for and lost out in a play-off in the one we missed out on. And yet we get a whole shit load of negativity and sniping at Clarke. Un-f***ing-believable.

[Toepoke]

8 hours ago, DoonTheSlope said:

Just a thought. If it’s only been decided overnight that Fletcher would be going instead of Miller, Irving or AN Other could it be because they can’t get the other players ESTAs or Visas etc in time?

Fletcher was already going as a member of the training squad so no further admin work required 

The only one of the training squad youngsters that was supposed to go to the USA was Liam McFarlane as a fourth keeper for practice sessions.

 

[vanderark14]

9 hours ago, kumnio said:

Watching 28 Summers, Lennon Miller has been mentioned, so can't see there being any issues between him and the squad or manager, so that's one excuse for ignoring him ruled out.

He wasn't ignored, he was considered but the manager decided Fletcher was the better option. Miller was called twice by the manager to explain his decision. 

Any player missing out should knuckle down and work harder for the next two years to ensure they don't miss out next time

[BryanBlessed]

10 hours ago, p gala ta said:

I would certainly have had Miller in the squad for the experience but let’s be honest ,I’ve watched quite a few Udinese games this season and he has hardly set the heather on fire ,hasn’t started many games or come on as a late  sub so to say he has olayed 22 games is misleading ,he’s been pretty anonymous in the games I’ve watched . Mind you Udinese are a boring team to watch so may not be Lenon’s fault.

England seem to have a policy of contacting any young player with dual qualification to tell them not to play for us .Rumour has it that Elliot Anderson was phoned up by Southgate while training at Lesser Hampden with Scotland  he immediately withdrew from our squad . If we can tie up Tyler Fletcher then brilliant ,and perhaps we can then tempt his brother .

Seems a good move to me and he looked pretty competent against limited opponents .The Scotland coaches will know better than anyone on this board if Tyler Fletcher will be an asset .

He's probably not progressed as much as we would have liked but he's still playing pretty regularly in Serie A and had good performances for Motherwell and, briefly, for Scotland. He certainly put in a better performance against Iceland and Liechtenstein than Fletcher did on Saturday. I don't think anyone would have a problem with his not being selected if it were for a clearly better, proven player. I don't see how anyone can say that is the case.

Would anyone genuinely, based on all available evidence, be more comfortable with Fletcher coming on than Miller? Didn't we learn from the Slicker saga that everyone in the squad could potentially play?

Barron and Irving have been in and out of squads but Miller has been a regular fixture. It would be interesting to see who would be called up if another midfielder got injured.

[Caledonian Craig]

4 minutes ago, BryanBlessed said:

He's probably not progressed as much as we would have liked but he's still playing pretty regularly in Serie A and had good performances for Motherwell and, briefly, for Scotland. He certainly put in a better performance against Iceland and Liechtenstein than Fletcher did on Saturday. I don't think anyone would have a problem with his not being selected if it were for a clearly better, proven player. I don't see how anyone can say that is the case.

Would anyone genuinely, based on all available evidence, be more comfortable with Fletcher coming on than Miller? Didn't we learn from the Slicker saga that everyone in the squad could potentially play?

Barron and Irving have been in and out of squads but Miller has been a regular fixture. It would be interesting to see who would be called up if another midfielder got injured.

Sorry but are you aware that Miller is a totally different type of midfielder to Gilmour. It is akin to McKenna dropping out and being replaced by Josh Doig. Miller is more an attacking midfielder whereas Gilmour is a holding midfielder like Fletcher is. A like-for-like change. And I do not see Connor Barron as a holding midfielder either. 

[BryanBlessed]

8 hours ago, bdgsct said:

No one wants him or the team to fail. I actually quite like him as a character. I do question some of his decisions but respect that he is in the best position to make them. Overall I tend to think the fairest way to judge him is based on our performance relative to the strength of the opposition acknowledging the relative quality of our squad. The reason people question Clarke is the poor performances of the team. Even despite the club atmosphere and cult like loyalty on both sides we tend to throw in some horrendous performances such as Greece (x3) and Belarus at home (along with numerous friendlies). The fact that so many recognise the issue despite the huge success of qualifying probably suggests its probably a valid concern.

WCQ 26 was probably our worst campaign in terms of performances since Euro 2020 qualifying. If it means we can no grind out results even when we don't deserve it that's great, but I think it's more about our having a fair bit of good fortune. The only game that we actually played well in (defensively anyway) was Denmark away. Clarke finally seems to have understood what Shankland can do for us and Curtis looks very good so that's all very positive.

[BryanBlessed]

26 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Sorry but are you aware that Miller is a totally different type of midfielder to Gilmour. It is akin to McKenna dropping out and being replaced by Josh Doig. Miller is more an attacking midfielder whereas Gilmour is a holding midfielder like Fletcher is. A like-for-like change. And I do not see Connor Barron as a holding midfielder either. 

Miller has played further back for Udinese, actually.

If the replacement for Gilmour is being brought in for experience, it doesn't matter what kind of midfielder they are. If Fletcher is being brought in to replace Gilmour then he's going to be playing. Do you want him to play? I don't. He might turn out to be a star for club and country but he might also end up in League One or the Scottish Premiership outside the old firm.

I'm not really fussed if he's a holding midfielder as he simply hasn't played enough senior football. I'd rather have any of our other midfielders playing that position than Fletcher.

[StirlingEgg]

My phone has told me off for using it 1hr and 44 mins more than last week 😬 I think this might be solely due to reading these discussions about Lennon Miller 😂

 

[vanderark14]

10 minutes ago, StirlingEgg said:

My phone has told me off for using it 1hr and 44 mins more than last week 😬 I think this might be solely due to reading these discussions about Lennon Miller 😂

 

Its one of the most bizarre arguments I have seen on the TAMB. How can grown adults feel so strongly about one 19 year old with limited experience being picked over another 19 year old with limited experience?

bizarre to say the least

 

[DoonTheSlope]

5 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Agreed.

It is ludicrous the stuff invented or exaggerated in a blatant attempt to create another stick to beat Clarke with - that is the sad reality we are dealing with here. Heck it even stretches to having a pop at our own players (clearly hated on) in a bid to ratchet up resentment to get them elbowed out of the squad (Kenny McLean) when, quite obviously, he is very popular in and around the squad. Tell you what if the keyboard warriors went up to their idols McGinn and McTominay and said what they say on here they'd tell them to piss off 

What has been posted that has been made up or exaggerated?

I relayed a story on here originally told by one of Kenny McLeans peers about a couple sickening acts that he carried out previously in response to someone saying that Lennon Miller is problematic and doesn’t fit in to the squad stating if Miller doesn’t fit into that setting then it’s a credit to him

I’ve even posted the YouTube interview and according to the host of the podcast Kenny McLean even told the story himself during his own interview on another episode of the podcast

If you resort to accusing people of inventing stuff up and exaggerating things despite these stories being corroborated by the protagonists peers then perhaps message boards aren’t for you 

 

[GraemeR]

10 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

Its one of the most bizarre arguments I have seen on the TAMB. How can grown adults feel so strongly about one 19 year old with limited experience being picked over another 19 year old with limited experience?

bizarre to say the least

 

I think you are confused about what 'limited experience' means here. One of the 19 year olds has played over 100 senior games including a season in serie A.  The other has played less than 20 mins but is Darren Fletcher's son.

[StirlingEgg]

5 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

Its one of the most bizarre arguments I have seen on the TAMB. How can grown adults feel so strongly about one 19 year old with limited experience being picked over another 19 year old with limited experience?

bizarre to say the least

 

Och I know it's just the huge anticipation after so long and you guys know a lot more than me to make these observations but it just seems a bit like analysis overkill before a ball has even been kicked. Also appreciate it is a message board 😂

Just want to wait and see and hope the players can rise to the occasion instead of getting lost in it (fwiw I feel like that's what happened in the opening Germany game). Hopefully some players will surprise us and then this place won't overflow with ragin' "I KNEW IT" reactions! 

 

[BryanBlessed]

2 minutes ago, GraemeR said:

I think you are confused about what 'limited experience' means here. One of the 19 year olds has played over 100 senior games including a season in serie A.  The other has played less than 20 mins but is Darren Fletcher's son.

I also don't get the point about 'grown men' as if discussing who should and shouldn't be in the squad is immature.

[DoonTheSlope]

14 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

Its one of the most bizarre arguments I have seen on the TAMB. How can grown adults feel so strongly about one 19 year old with limited experience being picked over another 19 year old with limited experience?

bizarre to say the least

 

One has featured in over 100 senior games in Scottish premiership and Serie A, captained his club several times and has international caps

The other has 17 minutes of senior football. Including a 92nd minute induction in January and 16 minutes in an end of season play out

Tell us you don’t have a clue what limited experience means without telling us you don’t have a clue what limited experiences means

[Diamond Scot]

16 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

Its one of the most bizarre arguments I have seen on the TAMB. How can grown adults feel so strongly about one 19 year old with limited experience being picked over another 19 year old with limited experience?

bizarre to say the least

 

Miller hasnt got limited experience to be fair. He has alot of experience, especially for a 19 year old. Off the top of my head he has a couple of years SPLF experience including captaining his side in a cup semi final at Hampden, he has got a move to an established side in Italy and has played in about 20 games there in his debut season and he has been in multiple Scotland squads and made a few appearences.

The debate should never have been Miller or Fletcher though. Miller should always have been in the squad ahead of Ralston or even one of the strikers.

Ive said it from the squad announcement. Only calling up 8 midfielders, 2 of which are wingers when we reguarly play 5 in midfield is madness. Midfielders do the most running and are most at risk from bookings. 

Id love to see the stats on how often centre and attacking mids get subbed or booked compared to centre backs or full backs.

There is zero need for a many defenders, injury prone or not.

[Third Lanark]

2 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

Miller hasnt got limited experience to be fair. He has alot of experience, especially for a 19 year old. Off the top of my head he has a couple of years SPLF experience including captaining his side in a cup semi final at Hampden, he has got a move to an established side in Italy and has played in about 20 games there in his debut season and he has been in multiple Scotland squads and made a few appearences.

The debate should never have been Miller or Fletcher though. Miller should always have been in the squad ahead of Ralston or even one of the strikers.

Ive said it from the squad announcement. Only calling up 8 midfielders, 2 of which are wingers when we reguarly play 5 in midfield is madness. Midfielders do the most running and are most at risk from bookings. 

Id love to see the stats on how often centre and attacking mids get subbed or booked compared to centre backs or full backs.

There is zero need for a many defenders, injury prone or not.

The big worry is what cover is there for McTom or McGinn - no like- for- like cover there. Hope to God they survive the Bolivia friendly.