Loyalty or In form !!

[thesaint]

1 hour ago, mccaughey85 said:

Adams plays at the highest level of all our strikers. He's also consistently played at the top level for 6/7 seasons. He's our only striker that has done that.

His form isn't that bad either when you consider he plays in top 5 league.

Adams form certainly regarding scoring ( and that's what we are crying out for ) has been mince.As somebody said before the fact he was being chased by relegated Wolves says a lot..5 goals in the league all season is poor.As for Dykes.

[mccaughey85]

25 minutes ago, thesaint said:

Adams form certainly regarding scoring ( and that's what we are crying out for ) has been mince.As somebody said before the fact he was being chased by relegated Wolves says a lot..5 goals in the league all season is poor.As for Dykes.

You have to take into consideration that hes playing in a top league. It's all very well scoring goals in the championship or spfl but there's a reason none of our other strikers have consistently played at the top level. They just aren't good enough. 

We don't have the luxury of rejecting a guy who has consistently played at the top level. 

Are you actually saying you wouldn't have Adams in our squad?

It's not like our other strikers are getting chased by epl teams either.

Edited April 30 by mccaughey85

[Ally Bongo]

45 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

You have to take into consideration that hes playing in a top league. It's all very well scoring goals in the championship or spfl but there's a reason none of our other strikers have consistently played at the top level. They just aren't good enough. 

We don't have the luxury of rejecting a guy who has consistently played at the top level. 

Are you actually saying you wouldn't have Adams in our squad?

It's not like our other strikers are getting chased by epl teams either.

I would have Dykes before Adams - and that says a lot

[vanderark14]

15 hours ago, thesaint said:

Adams form certainly regarding scoring ( and that's what we are crying out for ) has been mince.As somebody said before the fact he was being chased by relegated Wolves says a lot..5 goals in the league all season is poor.As for Dykes.

hE sCoReS gOaLs MiN sO hE sHoUlD pLay

[thesaint]

Very wise words.😁

[thesaint]

22 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

I would have Dykes before Adams - and that says a lot

The frightening thing is they will both be probable starters.🤔

[Caledonian Craig]

7 hours ago, thesaint said:

The frightening thing is they will both be probable starters.🤔

And they were starters in our marquee wins of recent times too V Spain, V Denmark (twice), V Norway, V Croatia, V Poland.

We could any of our ten potential strikers in the WC and it would still be goals from our midfield that would take us through to the next round. That is the stark reality. That being the case do we start with strikers in double figures in Scotland jerseys or play strikers yet to find the net for us. Bit of a no-brainer that one.

[thesaint]

5 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

And they were starters in our marquee wins of recent times too V Spain, V Denmark (twice), V Norway, V Croatia, V Poland.

We could any of our ten potential strikers in the WC and   it would still be goals from our midfield that would take us through to the next round. That is the stark reality. That being the case do we start with strikers in double figures in Scotland jerseys or play strikers yet to find the net for us. Bit of a no-brainer that one.

You know Craig Levein might just have been onto something after all.Play 6 midfielders but push say McTominay and Christie upfront.Just think of the goalscoring options it will give us if it's from midfielders that our goals are to come from.😁😁😁

[Arbroath1320]

1 hour ago, thesaint said:

You know Craig Levein might just have been onto something after all.Play 6 midfielders but push say McTominay and Christie upfront.Just think of the goalscoring options it will give us if it's from midfielders that our goals are to come from.😁😁😁

McTominay scores by arriving late in the box when the defenders are already marking the centre-forward. 

[bdgsct]

21 hours ago, Arbroath1320 said:

McTominay scores by arriving late in the box when the defenders are already marking the centre-forward. 

This I'd a myth, he scored plenty when he is already in the box.many headers and one touch finishes.

[Johnnyshaker]

There's a balance to be had with loyalty and form but I think some people are losing track of the fact that Clarke will have been planning for these games since the draw. Dykes is not in the form we would like him to be but he'll be going as Clarke will have a plan that involves him.

If this wasn't a tournament summer though, then he'd be in a difficult spot as he can't really justify still being in the top 3 forward picks when 3 players in the same division are considerably outperforming him.

I don't get the hate for Adams though, pre-injury he was in reasonable form and plays for a mid table Serie A team. It's not like we have a load of strikers playing at anything like that level banging the door to replace him.

[immcinto]

10 hours ago, Johnnyshaker said:

There's a balance to be had with loyalty and form but I think some people are losing track of the fact that Clarke will have been planning for these games since the draw. Dykes is not in the form we would like him to be but he'll be going as Clarke will have a plan that involves him.

If this wasn't a tournament summer though, then he'd be in a difficult spot as he can't really justify still being in the top 3 forward picks when 3 players in the same division are considerably outperforming him.

I don't get the hate for Adams though, pre-injury he was in reasonable form and plays for a mid table Serie A team. It's not like we have a load of strikers playing at anything like that level banging the door to replace him.

At least Adams contributes in other ways

[Diamond Scot]

Hanley shouldnt go to the world cup. He hasnt been in club form for well over a year and crucially there are other players who are at least as good who have been playing consistently well at a higher level. Hyam has to go before Hanley.

The forwards is different for me because none of the forwards who arent in the squad are doing significantly better or doing so in a higher league.

Sometimes people underestimate the different levels of leagues. Like if a striker is a 25 goal a season striker in the Championship that means he would be an 15 to 18 goal a season in the Prem because its a harder league. Sometimes that 25 goal striker would struggle to get near double figures because all the things he does to get chances just dont work against better players.

Guys like Boyd, Shankland and to a lesser extent Nisbet are prolifect at a certain level but very limited at a higher level (club wise). 

[mccaughey85]

2 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

Hanley shouldnt go to the world cup. He hasnt been in club form for well over a year and crucially there are other players who are at least as good who have been playing consistently well at a higher level. Hyam has to go before Hanley.

The forwards is different for me because none of the forwards who arent in the squad are doing significantly better or doing so in a higher league.

Sometimes people underestimate the different levels of leagues. Like if a striker is a 25 goal a season striker in the Championship that means he would be an 15 to 18 goal a season in the Prem because its a harder league. Sometimes that 25 goal striker would struggle to get near double figures because all the things he does to get chances just dont work against better players.

Guys like Boyd, Shankland and to a lesser extent Nisbet are prolifect at a certain level but very limited at a higher level (club wise). 

I think your being generous with 15 to 18 goals. Loads of strikers who scored 20+ goals in the championship struggle to get over 5 or 6 in the epl.

We have seen that with mcburnie and Adams. Both have scored over 20 in the championship and then both have struggled to get goals in the epl or serie A/la liga.

Theres loads of non Scottish examples of well of strikers doing well in the championship and then struggling when they get to the epl or nother top league.

[Diamond Scot]

Just now, mccaughey85 said:

I think your being generous with 15 to 18 goals. Loads of strikers who scored 20+ goals in the championship struggle to get over 5 or 6 in the epl.

We have seen that with mcburnie and Adams. Both have scored over 20 in the championship and then both have struggled to get goals in the epl or serie A/la liga.

Theres loads of non Scottish examples of well of strikers doing well in the championship and then struggling when they get to the epl or nother top league.

Thats my point. That players who score loads in the championship, ppl think they will score just a few less because its a better level but often its a huge drop off.

[thesaint]

1 hour ago, Diamond Scot said:

Hanley shouldnt go to the world cup. He hasnt been in club form for well over a year and crucially there are other players who are at least as good who have been playing consistently well at a higher level. Hyam has to go before Hanley.

The forwards is different for me because none of the forwards who arent in the squad are doing significantly better or doing so in a higher league.

Sometimes people underestimate the different levels of leagues. Like if a striker is a 25 goal a season striker in the Championship that means he would be an 15 to 18 goal a season in the Prem because its a harder league. Sometimes that 25 goal striker would struggle to get near double figures because all the things he does to get chances just dont work against better players.

Guys like Boyd, Shankland and to a lesser extent Nisbet are prolifect at a certain level but very limited at a higher level (club wise). 

Except McBurnie is doing significantly better in the same league as Dykes,Conway and Hirst .

[thesaint]

3 hours ago, immcinto said:

At least Adams contributes in other ways

What way is that then?

[Diamond Scot]

7 minutes ago, thesaint said:

Except McBurnie is doing significantly better in the same league as Dykes,Conway and Hirst .

Dykes is money in the bank and I dont think Clarke see's his role for Scotland as a goalscorer. When Dkyes plays its to hold up the ball, occupy the centre backs and allow space for the likes of McGinn and McTomminay to score.

Conway hasnt been brought in as a striker. He played out left. I dont think Clarke will take him but if he does it will likely be cause he can do both roles.

Rightly or wrongly Hirst has the 4th choice place. McBurnie has to donsignificantly better to take it off him. He has scored 6 more goals in league. Scoring a goal ever 171 minutes comparred to Hirst 192. So just under a game ever 2 games comparred to marginally over. Imo thats not significantly better.

Personally id take McBurnie over Hirst but its not a glaring error that I think Clarke can be overly criticised for.

[ceudmilefailte]

33 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

Dykes is money in the bank and I dont think Clarke see's his role for Scotland as a goalscorer. When Dkyes plays its to hold up the ball, occupy the centre backs and allow space for the likes of McGinn and McTomminay to score.

Conway hasnt been brought in as a striker. He played out left. I dont think Clarke will take him but if he does it will likely be cause he can do both roles.

Rightly or wrongly Hirst has the 4th choice place. McBurnie has to donsignificantly better to take it off him. He has scored 6 more goals in league. Scoring a goal ever 171 minutes comparred to Hirst 192. So just under a game ever 2 games comparred to marginally over. Imo thats not significantly better.

Personally id take McBurnie over Hirst but its not a glaring error that I think Clarke can be overly criticised for.

Forget the goals scored column for a minute and think about other things that make a player A better than player B

Assits

keypasses,tackles,interceptions,duals won, aerial duals won ,defensive clearances. 
And to me a big one is “presence “

Stick a big guy up front and he has to scare you before kick off. 

[mccaughey85]

2 hours ago, thesaint said:

What way is that then?

He holds the ball up and can at least make a pass and dribble a few yards with the ball. These were simple things mcburnie struggled to do in a Scotland shirt.

[vanderark14]

7 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

Dykes is money in the bank and I dont think Clarke see's his role for Scotland as a goalscorer. When Dkyes plays its to hold up the ball, occupy the centre backs and allow space for the likes of McGinn and McTomminay to score.

Conway hasnt been brought in as a striker. He played out left. I dont think Clarke will take him but if he does it will likely be cause he can do both roles.

Rightly or wrongly Hirst has the 4th choice place. McBurnie has to donsignificantly better to take it off him. He has scored 6 more goals in league. Scoring a goal ever 171 minutes comparred to Hirst 192. So just under a game ever 2 games comparred to marginally over. Imo thats not significantly better.

Personally id take McBurnie over Hirst but its not a glaring error that I think Clarke can be overly criticised for.

Ross Stewart has scored more goals than mcburnie since January and against better opposition.. I'm only using the last 4 month because that'swhen Stewart came back from long term injury 

[vanderark14]

8 hours ago, thesaint said:

What way is that then?

Stop being an arsehole. There's at least five posters who have explained it to you over the last 12 months

[thesaint]

2 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

Stop being an arsehole. There's at least five posters who have explained it to you over the last 12 months

You weren't a teacher by any chance?Explained to me indeed.Quality.🤔😁

[thesaint]

7 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

He holds the ball up and can at least make a pass and dribble a few yards with the ball. These were simple things mcburnie struggled to do in a Scotland shirt.

Dribble a few yards with the ball.Quite an achievement for a professional footballer right enough.😁

[immcinto]

2 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

Ross Stewart has scored more goals than mcburnie since January and against better opposition.. I'm only using the last 4 month because that'swhen Stewart came back from long term injury 

Also Ross Stewart has a nickname.