Steve Clarke - loyalty, squad mentality...and of course Oli McBurnie

[romanticscot]

Has anyone seen this?  Let's quite a lot in here to discuss.  I wasn't really wanting to start a new thread. 

 

Here is the whole quote

Hull City striker Oli McBurnie has revealed he rang up Steve Clarke ahead of his most recent Scotland squad selection: “He said to me he builds his squads on loyalty and that Ché Adams and Lyndon Dykes have done really well for him. “So he sees those two ahead of me. “He doesn’t see me as a third or fourth-choice striker, so he’s comparing me against Ché and Lyndon, and he sees them ahead of me.” 29-year-old McBurnie has 22 goal involvements (14G, 8A) in the Championship this season.

Edited April 16 by romanticscot

[Dodger]

Sounds like Clarke was caught on the hop and had to make up something rather than say what he really thinks. 

I'm not sure what makes a good 3rd or 4th choice striker, other than not moaning about being 3rd or 4th choice.

[bdgsct]

There is a lot in that,

They are in regular dialogue if he is able to give him a call. Tbf he was quoted as saying he had spoken with Clarke before the Denmark game to check on his fitness.

It seems odd that he is revealing that he had these conversation and even stranger that he has giving some detail away. 

If Clarke hasn't given him the nod to mention this in the press then its hardly going to go down well with Hirst etc or Clarke, so doesn't exactly increase his chances of selection. He can't think this will put pressure on Clarke either as that's not the way Clarke operates.

Is it possible, Mcburnie has put this out there at Clarke's request in order to prepare Hirst and co for a disappointment if Mcburnie is included?

I did get the feeling Clarke maybe gave Hirst the chance to play himself out of the team.

It also tells you that Dykes and Adams are going, which is no surprise.

 

[davidrw]

Clarke’s approach seems to prioritize continuity and trust within the squad, which can be understandable from a team cohesion perspective. McBurnie’s form this season does put him in the conversation, though competition with Adams and Dykes is strong. Ultimately, selection often comes down to system fit as much as current goal contributions.

[bdgsct]

I think the pay-off for being loyal to players is long-term. It builds a good team spirit if there is continuity and reduces call offs for players who are not fully fit which is important. However in a World Cup scenario I don't think you necessarily get that pay-off from the players who he has stood by. The commitment and effort is matched by other potential squad players and that of the opposition simply because it is the World Cup, so it often comes down to quality. If Clarke shows faith in players such as Patterson, Miller and Gilmour, he might see that pay-off in their future commitment in campaigns to come. Dykes and Adams are at the end of the road, this is reward for distant past performance and the cost is the ommission of quality and players in better form. It's stick or twist. I'd like to see at least some element of gamble in terms of new strikers. Dykes, Adams and Hirst have not done it in terms of goals. Shankland hasn't really had a fair chance.

[romanticscot]

So, I am glad that McBurnie was proactive and made a call.  I am hoping other players have done the same, "Hey, I want to be in your squad", either what do I need to do or just develop a relationship. Its a good move. 

I am inclined to agree with @Dodger , Clarke was put on the spot and this is what he said. What puzzles me is, lets be fair, we only have one side of the conversation.... Clarke said he doesn't see him as a 3rd of 4th striker, but rather competing with the 1st and 2nd striker.  This is odd to me, who are the 3rd and 4th strikers but competing with the top ones for a starting place?  I am ok with a stack ranking of sorts. We all know every player is different, offering different qualities, I figured a Manager of Steve Clarke with over 10 years(I thought it was more) of employment as a Manager, and then more as caretaker and backroom staff would make squad selection at least with some influence of the opposition.  The application of that is you don't start with the same 11 in the same formation every match. 

I understand there are going to be certain players that if they are fit, they are in the team.  McTominay, Robertson, McGinn, Hickey - honestly, I would not have anyone else in that.  Tierney is the only other one but I would have him in a sort of 'if the formation permits'.

There will also be players who, if they are fit, they are in my squad.

I do not believe that building harmony in a squad is a bad thing, but the contrary - team spirit, understanding, relationships are vital to us...being more than the sum of our parts.  

It would trouble me as a coach, knowing that if I didn't call up a certain player then it has a drastic effect that other players won't play as well.  These guys are professionals, and it's a freaking World cup.  Feelings will be hurt; we can't please everyone. I guess Clarke does not put as much stock in domestic form as I expected, and trusts them for what they have done for him.  This begs the question, and we might have an answer from McBurnie if we could talk to the lad, exactly what must a player do to not be trusted by Steve Clarke? Dykes was the perfect player for us, starting six years ago when he was first capped and then for a 2/3 year spell.  The implications of this reveal have me seriously needing to lower my expectations for our first World Cup in almost three decades.  I don't know if McBurnie would make us better, but I would be giving serious consideration to him, Ross Stewart, Barney Stewart and a few others to make my squad as strong as it could be, taking form, understanding, energy, an x-factor, fitness all into consideration.  

I hope we have a good world cup, and I am thankful for what Clarke has done but I am ready for him to move on when all is said and done.  Actually, if I were his boss, I would be taking McBurnie's example and also giving Steve Clarke a call.  

 

 

Edited April 16 by romanticscot

[breeks_mctavish]

It could be interpreted as Clarke (rightly or wrongly) thinks he could be disruptive if he’s not first choice and it’s not worth the gamble 

[GaryWood34]

3 minutes ago, breeks_mctavish said:

It could be interpreted as Clarke (rightly or wrongly) thinks he could be disruptive if he’s not first choice and it’s not worth the gamble 

He’s basically proven this by divulging info of a presumably private call.

Don’t want him in the squad. 

[breeks_mctavish]

1 hour ago, GaryWood34 said:

He’s basically proven this by divulging info of a presumably private call.

Don’t want him in the squad. 

Absolutely 

[romanticscot]

1 hour ago, breeks_mctavish said:

It could be interpreted as Clarke (rightly or wrongly) thinks he could be disruptive if he’s not first choice and it’s not worth the gamble 

I had not considered that interpretation, that's a very plausible explanation. 

[GaryWood34]

4 minutes ago, romanticscot said:

I had not considered that interpretation, that's a very plausible explanation. 

He’s got previous let’s be honest 

[noctonjock]

Being loyal to players doesn't win you games at a World Cup 

[thesaint]

God forbid you should actually be desperate to play for your country.Rather chase a lot of chancers who have little interest in playing for us.As for the players already available McBurnie should certainly be in ahead of Hirst and Conway at the very least and possibly even Dykes to be honest.Better all round player than any of them.Horrible feeling Clarke is going to die again on the hill of familiarity and lack of positivity.Wouldn't think it possible to make the same mistakes three times in a row......but!

[thesaint]

20 minutes ago, GaryWood34 said:

He’s got previous let’s be honest 

When was that then?Don't remember him being disruptive .

[Caledonian Craig]

38 minutes ago, thesaint said:

God forbid you should actually be desperate to play for your country.Rather chase a lot of chancers who have little interest in playing for us.As for the players already available McBurnie should certainly be in ahead of Hirst and Conway at the very least and possibly even Dykes to be honest.Better all round player than any of them.Horrible feeling Clarke is going to die again on the hill of familiarity and lack of positivity.Wouldn't think it possible to make the same mistakes three times in a row......but!

I would say as Scotland boss he is likely to get slaughtered either way. Drops Dykes or Adams for the World Cup for a striker yet to score for us over strikers in double figures and we exit early and he gets slaughtered. He doesn't pick McBurnie and we exit early he gets slaughtered.

I think McBurnie is worthy of another chance in the next squad over Conway but I feel the key to us getting through the group stages will be whether our midfield can weigh in with the goals. The midfield is where the lions share of our goals come from now and from the time when McBurnie was in the squad.

[GaryWood34]

1 hour ago, thesaint said:

When was that then?Don't remember him being disruptive .

In club football mate - fair number of controversies. 

[GaryWood34]

1 hour ago, thesaint said:

God forbid you should actually be desperate to play for your country.Rather chase a lot of chancers who have little interest in playing for us.As for the players already available McBurnie should certainly be in ahead of Hirst and Conway at the very least and possibly even Dykes to be honest.Better all round player than any of them.Horrible feeling Clarke is going to die again on the hill of familiarity and lack of positivity.Wouldn't think it possible to make the same mistakes three times in a row......but!

He done an interview with Sheff Utd when the initial chat about Scotland came up and was taking the piss about being called up by us.

He pulled out a few Scotland squads under Clarke at the beginning that were dubious at the time too. 
 

He’s got a very chequered past. I asked AI to list his controversies / issues and it give a long list - won’t post it as not sure how accurate it is.

[romanticscot]

I think Ross Stewart is emerging as a more viable option over McBurnie.  I am willing to drop Andy Irving, Hirst or Conway.  Conway had a brief spell on the left, not enough but he was tried there. I think it's fair to say, I would be managing the squad far differently than Clarke would and this thread reveals Clarke likely isn't going to differ too much from March unless there are injuries. As someone above already pointed out on one of the other thread, this is now a third tournament, I fear we are going to be pedestrian, predictable and frustrated once again and Clarke hasn't given himself much wiggle room. 

Edited April 16 by romanticscot

[thesaint]

26 minutes ago, GaryWood34 said:

He done an interview with Sheff Utd when the initial chat about Scotland came up and was taking the piss about being called up by us.

He pulled out a few Scotland squads under Clarke at the beginning that were dubious at the time too. 
 

He’s got a very chequered past. I asked AI to list his controversies / issues and it give a long list - won’t post it as not sure how accurate it is.

Not true.McBurnie has  played for us consistently at three different levels and went on that crazy South America trip when plenty couldn't be arsed.Whatever you accuse him of not turning up isn't one of them.As for club football i suggest you ask the fans of any club he has played for what they think about him.

[GaryWood34]

33 minutes ago, thesaint said:

Not true.McBurnie has  played for us consistently at three different levels and went on that crazy South America trip when plenty couldn't be arsed.Whatever you accuse him of not turning up isn't one of them.As for club football i suggest you ask the fans of any club he has played for what they think about him.

Not an expert and I don’t know him. 

But a quick google shows arrests and convictions.

A further google shows that he has pulled out of Scotland squads and then played in a friendly 2 days later for Sheff Utd. 
 

 

[thesaint]

59 minutes ago, GaryWood34 said:

Not an expert and I don’t know him. 

But a quick google shows arrests and convictions.

A further google shows that he has pulled out of Scotland squads and then played in a friendly 2 days later for Sheff Utd. 
 

 

One conviction only for drink driving.Obviously not ideal but it was six years ago.People can grow up and realise their mistakes.Played 42 times for us at various levels so his commitment to us shouldn't be questioned.Plus he is simply a better player than Hirst or Conway.

[scotlad]

1 hour ago, thesaint said:

Not true.McBurnie has  played for us consistently at three different levels and went on that crazy South America trip when plenty couldn't be arsed.Whatever you accuse him of not turning up isn't one of them.As for club football i suggest you ask the fans of any club he has played for what they think about him.

He also turned up for the Kazakhstan debacle - a competitive game - when many others pulled out.

[mccaughey85]

21 minutes ago, thesaint said:

One conviction only for drink driving.Obviously not ideal but it was six years ago.People can grow up and realise their mistakes.Played 42 times for us at various levels so his commitment to us shouldn't be questioned.Plus he is simply a better player than Hirst or Conway.

Not sure he is better than Conway. Conways been playing deeper this season so hasn't scored as much but hes been scoring goals in the English championship since he was 19 and is now only 23. Hes probably similar level to mcburnie.

Not sure about hirst but at least he played quite well v ivory coast. 

Our strikers are all average players and swapping them around is like rearranging deck chairs on the titanic.

[bdgsct]

1 hour ago, scotlad said:

He also turned up for the Kazakhstan debacle - a competitive game - when many others pulled out.

Including our captain.

7 hours ago, breeks_mctavish said:

It could be interpreted as Clarke (rightly or wrongly) thinks he could be disruptive if he’s not first choice and it’s not worth the gamble 

If this was the case, Clarke wouldn't have any dialogue with him.

[vanderark14]

12 hours ago, GaryWood34 said:

He’s basically proven this by divulging info of a presumably private call.

Don’t want him in the squad. 

Completely agree

Mcburnie fucked his chances completely by divulging this information, I was very keen to see him called up because he is going through a purple patch, if he had matured, he would be a great asset but I'm with Clarke on this one