Working from Home ! The argument !

[Big Ramy 1314]

So, would like your feedback on this sensitive topic. Working from home...

So today in Ottawa, civil servants and City of Ottawa employees are now to report to work 5 days a week, like it was before COVID !!

It's not going over well, as the folk who have been working from home are furious they have to go back to work at their place of employment..

I have no sympathy for them. During COVID, I had to go into work every day as my job was a job that could not be done from home, so I went in. It is what it is... 

Now you have folk that were allowed to work from home, complaining that it is not fair that they have to return to work, not work from home.. I see the argument from both sides, but at the end of the day, why should some folk have the advantage of working from home, not paying for petrol, parking, babysitting, ect, and others that cannot work from home having to pay for what I mentioned....

Is this happening in Scotland, or at your place of work? What is the consensus? It's kicked off here big time in Canada. Folk aren't happy and it's becoming a real issue. The government stepped in and orders folk back to work claiming there is no reason to work from home as COVID is over..

What is your view on this? I see both sides, but at the end of the day, you report to work, end of story, you are paid to do a job, do it, just like everyone else..

Just my opinion,....

[dandydunn]

People that only want to work from home are generally the lazy fuckers that know they’ll get found out back in the office and use children as a reason that they can’t work there. 
 

Millions of people managed before Covid to juggle jobs and kids, so fuck them. 
 

Workshy bastards. 
 

 

[exile]

4 hours ago, Big Ramy 1314 said:

So, would like your feedback on this sensitive topic. Working from home...

So today in Ottawa, civil servants and City of Ottawa employees are now to report to work 5 days a week, like it was before COVID !!

It's not going over well, as the folk who have been working from home are furious they have to go back to work at their place of employment..

I have no sympathy for them. During COVID, I had to go into work every day as my job was a job that could not be done from home, so I went in. It is what it is... 

Now you have folk that were allowed to work from home, complaining that it is not fair that they have to return to work, not work from home.. I see the argument from both sides, but at the end of the day, why should some folk have the advantage of working from home, not paying for petrol, parking, babysitting, ect, and others that cannot work from home having to pay for what I mentioned....

Is this happening in Scotland, or at your place of work? What is the consensus? It's kicked off here big time in Canada. Folk aren't happy and it's becoming a real issue. The government stepped in and orders folk back to work claiming there is no reason to work from home as COVID is over..

What is your view on this? I see both sides, but at the end of the day, you report to work, end of story, you are paid to do a job, do it, just like everyone else..

Just my opinion,....

'you are paid to do a job' - sure, so if you do the work, why does it matter where you do it? For some work tasks, you get more done at home. You pay for your own heating, etc, etc.

If you don't like what your work involves, get another job. That argument work both ways, of course.

Maybe the problem is if Ts & Cs change with no adequate justification/negotiation.

[McTeeko]

Working from home is the same as living at your work.

Fuck that. 

[Malcolm]

It’s a tricky one.  We are theoretically in the office three days a week but it’s not policed.  I am in the office on average a couple of days a week but that office is over three hundred miles from home and not my base office.

For me, it’s not about whether you are working hard it’s about relationship building with colleagues and clients.  Your achievement against KPIs should determine whether you are exited, but you can’t build a career from your house.

[vanderark14]

Im much more productive at home as I have less distractions, my business levels have increased because i work from home. I would hate if I had to go to an office again.

Its not for everyone but I know a lot of people who are also more productive working from home but I know plenty of people who need to be in an office environment as they are more distracted at home

 

[vanderark14]

1 hour ago, McTeeko said:

Working from home is the same as living at your work.

Fuck that. 

Its really not

[Grim Jim]

2 hours ago, McTeeko said:

Working from home is the same as living at your work.

Fuck that. 

For me it was very important to separate home and work, and saw folk with a phone in their ear day and night, permanently connected to work as sad bastards (and sacrificing their lives on the alter of divorce, or whatever).   Particularly true when their boss was in another continent, with time differences applied.

OK, a good [anyone's definition here] boss/manager committing to that was hopefully getting the remuneration deserved and support of their colleagues, but never looked like real life for me.

In summary, I agree!

[exile]

I don't think it needs to be a hugely divisive issue, I think a mix is probably good, it depends on the job. There is a danger you could lose touch at home, and workplace could be a better nurturing environment for early career people. And it's partly a personality thing, like do you prefer a room of own or working in a group where you can bounce ideas off others.

A lot is just human nature. Lazy people will be lazy at office or at home, workaholics will be workaholic at office or home.

As for COVID, lots of key workers did an amazing job during COVID, and yes they had to bear the brunt of effort and were exposed to more danger compared to their stay-at-home colleagues but I think the solution should be to adequately reward them, not to artificially make the jobs of others more difficult/inefficient than they need to be.

As I say, I think a mix is probably a good thing, so an organisation simply dictating that everyone is compelled to switch back to workplace location sounds like high handed management, potentially putting ideology over productivity. So I guess I'm sceptical of management motives here.

 

Edited January 5 by exile

[DoonTheSlope]

It should be outlawed. It wouldn’t be the first time I’ve phoned a “call centre” to query and chase up some affairs and you can hear GMTV or Dickinsons Real Deal on in the background. I’ve also had dealings were there’s been dugs and bairns causing a commotion in the background.Not only that if the persons WiFi connection isn’t great then it hampers productivity 

While we had the great weather during the first lockdown I was at a couple of barbecues and whatnots and there was people there who were signed into their work devices and every few minutes they’d move the mouse or open a file so they didn’t time out. Madness

There’s also a negative economical knock on effect from less people in the work place too. The small independent coffee shops, cafes and other businesses which rely on passing trade are severely impacted too

[Big Ramy 1314]

31 minutes ago, DoonTheSlope said:

It should be outlawed. It wouldn’t be the first time I’ve phoned a “call centre” to query and chase up some affairs and you can hear GMTV or Dickinsons Real Deal on in the background. I’ve also had dealings were there’s been dugs and bairns causing a commotion in the background.Not only that if the persons WiFi connection isn’t great then it hampers productivity 

While we had the great weather during the first lockdown I was at a couple of barbecues and whatnots and there was people there who were signed into their work devices and every few minutes they’d move the mouse or open a file so they didn’t time out. Madness

There’s also a negative economical knock on effect from less people in the work place too. The small independent coffee shops, cafes and other businesses which rely on passing trade are severely impacted too

The last bit you touched on, how businesses are affected. 

Ottawa is a government city, and the businesses downtown rely on the workers being at their jobs to survive.. Many shops in that part of corporate Ottawa have gone out of business because of this, folk working from home...

The other argument is money. Why should Ramy be allowed to work from home, while Bobby across the road has to go into work? Petrol, food, daycare, car insurance, it all adds up. Even the stress of the commute to work? 

Folk think they are entitled now to stay at home. I'm in the "fuck that" forum. 

Take a cut in your wages then to equal it out to the person who HAS to go into work.  Then you will see who is moaning !!

This will not go away anytime soon, it's only getting worse, well over here anyway...

During COVID, I had to report to work every single day as I worked on the construction side of things in the water board. The office staff in my building were sent home and worked from home. Was it fair? No, but no choice... COVID is over now, so get back to work and out of your comfy couch like the rest of us.... It's that simple.....

Just my opinion....

[phart]

I think everyone has touched on most of the main points. I guess it's just a case of what weight you put on them. 

I think it really depends on a lot of circumstances. 

[vanderark14]

6 hours ago, DoonTheSlope said:

It should be outlawed. It wouldn’t be the first time I’ve phoned a “call centre” to query and chase up some affairs and you can hear GMTV or Dickinsons Real Deal on in the background. I’ve also had dealings were there’s been dugs and bairns causing a commotion in the background.Not only that if the persons WiFi connection isn’t great then it hampers productivity 

While we had the great weather during the first lockdown I was at a couple of barbecues and whatnots and there was people there who were signed into their work devices and every few minutes they’d move the mouse or open a file so they didn’t time out. Madness

There’s also a negative economical knock on effect from less people in the work place too. The small independent coffee shops, cafes and other businesses which rely on passing trade are severely impacted too

The small independent coffee shop close to me does well, actually it does better because of people who work from home. 

[duncan II]

Exile's thoughts on it are very much like my own. Why compel someone to go into an office if their productivity is as good, or better, at home? Different personalities will thrive in different environments.

I am 53, i worked in offices all my career. Hated it. I now work from home. I am much more productive than I would be in a horrible open-plan office full of arseholes. PLUS I am here for my son coming home from school. I wouldn't go back to an office. Thankfully my company has absolutely no intention of making anyone go back (though there are regional offices available for anyone who wants to).

I think the argument of coffee shops going out of business is a non-starter. The high street is changing (dying) anyway, regardless of city centre office buildings. We can't close down Amazon or ban online shopping. We need to find alternatives for struggling town centres, but that's an entirely different argument. Forcing people to commute and work in a central place for that reason alone is a nonsense.

I do agree that it could be different for early career younger people. I've had my time in offices and benefited from workplace interactions. I know now it's not for me. But young people going straight into working from home might be different. I think many young people already lack basic social skills, but that's another argument again!

[Fairbairn]

Like  most things, it's not black and white.  I worked in offices for the best part of 30 years till I was made redundant during Covid.  Was lucky enough to get a job more or less straight away with a North East England based company who were planning on opening an office in Glasgow but they extension of lock down and a few other factors put the kibosh on that and I've been permanently home based for the last 5 years.  I find when it's busy you get loads more done but when it's not busy it's very easy to drop the shoulder and get a bit lazy so you really need to have the right mindset and be able to apply yourself.  The main negative I feel, especially being in a "new" job, is that you can feel a bit on the outside looking in and kind of forgotten about if you're just going about things quietly.

[vanderark14]

 

9 hours ago, exile said:

I don't think it needs to be a hugely divisive issue, I think a mix is probably good, it depends on the job. There is a danger you could lose touch at home, and workplace could be a better nurturing environment for early career people. And it's partly a personality thing, like do you prefer a room of own or working in a group where you can bounce ideas off others.

A lot is just human nature. Lazy people will be lazy at office or at home, workaholics will be workaholic at office or home.

As for COVID, lots of key workers did an amazing job during COVID, and yes they had to bear the brunt of effort and were exposed to more danger compared to their stay-at-home colleagues but I think the solution should be to adequately reward them, not to artificially make the jobs of others more difficult/inefficient than they need to be.

As I say, I think a mix is probably a good thing, so an organisation simply dictating that everyone is compelled to switch back to workplace location sounds like high handed management, potentially putting ideology over productivity. So I guess I'm sceptical of management motives here.

 

Thats what I thought but evidently not, some TAMB posters have some very strong views on the subject🤣

[vanderark14]

46 minutes ago, duncan II said:

Exile's thoughts on it are very much like my own. Why compel someone to go into an office if their productivity is as good, or better, at home? Different personalities will thrive in different environments.

I am 53, i worked in offices all my career. Hated it. I now work from home. I am much more productive than I would be in a horrible open-plan office full of arseholes. PLUS I am here for my son coming home from school. I wouldn't go back to an office. Thankfully my company has absolutely no intention of making anyone go back (though there are regional offices available for anyone who wants to).

I think the argument of coffee shops going out of business is a non-starter. The high street is changing (dying) anyway, regardless of city centre office buildings. We can't close down Amazon or ban online shopping. We need to find alternatives for struggling town centres, but that's an entirely different argument. Forcing people to commute and work in a central place for that reason alone is a nonsense.

I do agree that it could be different for early career younger people. I've had my time in offices and benefited from workplace interactions. I know now it's not for me. But young people going straight into working from home might be different. I think many young people already lack basic social skills, but that's another argument again!

 

4 minutes ago, Fairbairn said:

Like  most things, it's not black and white.  I worked in offices for the best part of 30 years till I was made redundant during Covid.  Was lucky enough to get a job more or less straight away with a North East England based company who were planning on opening an office in Glasgow but they extension of lock down and a few other factors put the kibosh on that and I've been permanently home based for the last 5 years.  I find when it's busy you get loads more done but when it's not busy it's very easy to drop the shoulder and get a bit lazy so you really need to have the right mindset and be able to apply yourself.  The main negative I feel, especially being in a "new" job, is that you can feel a bit on the outside looking in and kind of forgotten about if you're just going about things quietly.

These views reflect mine, I would only add that I have no desire to meet people from work unless I absolutely have too. I work with a small team of experienced people who I can rely on to maintain my reputation  and I have no desire to go into an office where there is a mix of hard working people and lazy bastards too BUT the worst people in an office are those who are there just to chat shit and distract others.

 

[TDYER63]

Pretty much with @exile and @duncan IIon this. Lots of valid points being made by others too. Everyone is different so I think a balance is required. I personally hated Wfh at first, I like company . Not just so I could talk a load of shit, though i was guilty of that at times too. But ‘shit talk’ is part of human communication, there is no way teams chats can compensate for being in the physical company of others . Granted I had a great team where people genuinely got on, I appreciate its not like that for others. 
And unless you are regimented , like Fairbairn says, its easy to  get lazy mentally at times , but you can also get lazy physically too unless you apply yourself to exercise . I don’t think people realise that the simple movement of getting to and from the office has a positive impact on your body. 

However I enjoyed hybrid working especially in the last couple of years when I got a bit older and tired more easily. Getting a bit longer in bed because I didn’t have to travel helped immensely , and had absolutely zero negative impact on my work . Infact if governments are wanting people to work till they are older then the option of wfh would be a massive attraction for some. 

[slasher]

I’m a hybrid worker so do a mix of both although I probably spend about 70% of my time in the office or on site as I prefer it. Working from home is handy though if you need peace to plough through a report or a tonne of emails. 
One thing I have noticed though is that I’m more flexible with start/finish times at home. I might start a bit later but tend to work on a good bit later as well. When I’m out and about I call it quits bang on finishing time. I’d hate to be tied to either full time but if I had to choose it would be to go to the office.

[Big Ramy 1314]

Just to clear this up on my end, if you are on this board, and you do work from home, good for you, I mean that sincerely. I am just not a fan cuz I was on the other side of it, albeit, I am retired now... 

My wife works from home 2 days a week and she loves it, so woman I to comment...

My biggest problem.with this is how it happens in Ottawa. It's the government workers that do my tits in. They already have it good, now they are spoiled and throwing their toys out the pram.. It's pathetic actually..

Private firms I have no problem with working from home if it works, it's the government workers who I pay their wages through my tax dollars that annoy me... 

An example, couple of my mates I golf with work for the government, bring their mobile phone golfing, answer a few phone calls, get paid 8 hours, then have the cheek to laugh about getting away with it.. It's total bollocks !!!

[exile]

5 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

Thats what I thought but evidently not, some TAMB posters have some very strong views on the subject🤣

😅

Edited January 6 by exile

[exile]

2 hours ago, Big Ramy 1314 said:

An example, couple of my mates I golf with work for the government, bring their mobile phone golfing, answer a few phone calls, get paid 8 hours, then have the cheek to laugh about getting away with it.. It's total bollocks !!!

The problem there is not 'working from home'. The problem is not working at all.

Or, claiming non-working time as working time, which people with office/site based jobs can also be guilty of - like out on a job somewhere and going home early, taking a long lunchtime - whether that's from office or home is irrelevant.  

[dan cake]

I work with utter cunts I have absolutely no empathy for, not having to see them on a daily basis would be great. Unfortunately creating an office environment in my house would involve washing my feet in the sink, spitting in the water fountain and defecating on the toilet floor 

[TDYER63]

4 hours ago, Big Ramy 1314 said:

Just to clear this up on my end, if you are on this board, and you do work from home, good for you, I mean that sincerely. I am just not a fan cuz I was on the other side of it, albeit, I am retired now... 

My wife works from home 2 days a week and she loves it, so woman I to comment...

My biggest problem.with this is how it happens in Ottawa. It's the government workers that do my tits in. They already have it good, now they are spoiled and throwing their toys out the pram.. It's pathetic actually..

Private firms I have no problem with working from home if it works, it's the government workers who I pay their wages through my tax dollars that annoy me... 

An example, couple of my mates I golf with work for the government, bring their mobile phone golfing, answer a few phone calls, get paid 8 hours, then have the cheek to laugh about getting away with it.. It's total bollocks !!!

I suppose the flip side of saying you are ok with private companies offering this but not governments means that private companies are offering a perk that governments dont.

If you want decent people to run the public services you need to try and at least be competitive as an employer . Not everyone is driven solely by money , and wfh flexibility is attractive to a lot of people.

A sensible balance shouldn’t be difficult to offer .

[Big Ramy 1314]

24 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

I suppose the flip side of saying you are ok with private companies offering this but not governments means that private companies are offering a perk that governments dont.

If you want decent people to run the public services you need to try and at least be competitive as an employer . Not everyone is driven solely by money , and wfh flexibility is attractive to a lot of people.

A sensible balance shouldn’t be difficult to offer .

No, private companies pay their employees with money they have made !!

Government pays their employees from tax dollars that I pay !!! 

Big difference !!