Ukraine reflections.

[marinello]

Can't help but feel the chickens are coming home to roost as we hopefully near an end to the conflict.

In particular the Ukrainians must now rue walking away from the Minsk negotiations which gave the clear promise of Luhansk and Donetsk remaining within Ukraine but with greater autonomy. As for walking away - you don't need to listen to me- you need only refer to the heads of the French and German delegations who led the Minsk negotiations  who confirmed that Ukraine had been disingenuous in the negotiations, only using the period to build up their military and deepen its process  of eradicating Russian culture including the loss of many lives in eastern Ukraine---- a process unsurprisingly given little attention in the west and which Russia could not ignore.

Now of course all indications suggest that Ukraine will lose both oblasts and the distinct possibility of large parts of 2 others namely Kherson and Zaporizhzhia.

Of course some will argue that Russia was  hell bent on expansionism but as with a growing number of neutral observers not  least the  Independent newspaper in the UK , the view is that this argument is baseless and that the conflict with Ukraine was primarily about Russian security. Indeed rather than the absurd notion asserted by many jaundiced reporters in the west since 2022 that Russia has its eyes on not only invading eastern Europe but going further into the west, the more educated view is to refer to the broken promise given to the dismembering Soviet Union by NATO that it would not move east even " by an inch".

In fact the west would have been better served to remember JFK's view on conflict that it is always essential to understand your adversary before devising  a strategy.

So therefore as Ukraine and the west resemble the Black Knight in Monty Pythons Holy Grail by trying to depict the conflict as a draw when its clearly a win for Russia, it must now be time when soberly reflecting on developments that Zelensky and his backers wish they could turn the clock back.

The families of Ukrainian and Russian casualties would no doubt sadly agree.

[Ally Bongo]

Is that you Nigel ?

[Ally Bongo]

 

[mccaughey85]

4 hours ago, marinello said:

Can't help but feel the chickens are coming home to roost as we hopefully near an end to the conflict.

In particular the Ukrainians must now rue walking away from the Minsk negotiations which gave the clear promise of Luhansk and Donetsk remaining within Ukraine but with greater autonomy. As for walking away - you don't need to listen to me- you need only refer to the heads of the French and German delegations who led the Minsk negotiations  who confirmed that Ukraine had been disingenuous in the negotiations, only using the period to build up their military and deepen its process  of eradicating Russian culture including the loss of many lives in eastern Ukraine---- a process unsurprisingly given little attention in the west and which Russia could not ignore.

Now of course all indications suggest that Ukraine will lose both oblasts and the distinct possibility of large parts of 2 others namely Kherson and Zaporizhzhia.

Of course some will argue that Russia was  hell bent on expansionism but as with a growing number of neutral observers not  least the  Independent newspaper in the UK , the view is that this argument is baseless and that the conflict with Ukraine was primarily about Russian security. Indeed rather than the absurd notion asserted by many jaundiced reporters in the west since 2022 that Russia has its eyes on not only invading eastern Europe but going further into the west, the more educated view is to refer to the broken promise given to the dismembering Soviet Union by NATO that it would not move east even " by an inch".

In fact the west would have been better served to remember JFK's view on conflict that it is always essential to understand your adversary before devising  a strategy.

So therefore as Ukraine and the west resemble the Black Knight in Monty Pythons Holy Grail by trying to depict the conflict as a draw when its clearly a win for Russia, it must now be time when soberly reflecting on developments that Zelensky and his backers wish they could turn the clock back.

The families of Ukrainian and Russian casualties would no doubt sadly agree.

Not sure this will be the end of the conflict.

Infact I think it might escalate into something bigger. 

Are Ukraine actually considering this peace deal? 

[Ally Bongo]

1 hour ago, mccaughey85 said:

Not sure this will be the end of the conflict.

Infact I think it might escalate into something bigger. 

Are Ukraine actually considering this peace deal? 

173 posts in 10 years by the OP then a post out the blue which looks as if it was written by the guy that was supplying speeches to Nathan Gill 

I reported it as Russian propaganda 

 

[mccaughey85]

On 11/24/2025 at 8:56 PM, Ally Bongo said:

173 posts in 10 years by the OP then a post out the blue which looks as if it was written by the guy that was supplying speeches to Nathan Gill 

I reported it as Russian propaganda 

 

What's your views on this whole "peace deal".

I can't see Ukraine accepting these demands and I think Europe will back them to a certain extent. 

[vanderark14]

On 11/24/2025 at 8:56 PM, Ally Bongo said:

173 posts in 10 years by the OP then a post out the blue which looks as if it was written by the guy that was supplying speeches to Nathan Gill 

I reported it as Russian propaganda 

 

Did you honestly report the post for that reason?

[Ally Bongo]

48 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

Did you honestly report the post for that reason?

Look at the post again and read it critically 

It's a copy and paste job 

[vanderark14]

1 hour ago, Ally Bongo said:

Look at the post again and read it critically 

It's a copy and paste job 

So what if its copied and pasted, they won't be the first to do this. 

he may just be someone who doesn't believe Ukraine are innocent in all of this. Report abuse and bigotry, absolutely but this should not be reported just because you disagree with an opinion

[Ally Bongo]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/nov/21/english-language-websites-link-pro-kremlin-russian-propaganda-pravda-network

Hundreds of English-language websites link to pro-Kremlin propaganda

Thinktank says internet flooded with disinformation by Russia-aligned Pravda network, which many websites treat as credible

https://www.international.gc.ca/world-monde/issues_development-enjeux_developpement/response_conflict-reponse_conflits/crisis-crises/ukraine-fact-fait.aspx?lang=eng

Countering disinformation with facts - Russian invasion of Ukraine

https://www.trtworld.com/article/d90a0369fc8d

France detains three for allegedly promoting Russian propaganda within humanitarian organisation

French authorities investigate three individuals tied to the SOS Donbass organisation for allegedly spreading Russian propaganda and collecting sensitive information.

 

https://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/schwerpunkte/EN/disinformation/examples-of-russian-disinformation-and-the-facts.html

 

Below are examples of disinformation which the Russian government is continually spreading via various platforms, including in Germany, in connection with its war of aggression against Ukraine. The Federal Government provides the facts to confront this disinformation.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2vr37yd4no

How Russia is quietly trying to win over the world beyond the West

 

[Orraloon]

Plenty sites are linked to BBC Pravda.

[vanderark14]

1 hour ago, Ally Bongo said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/nov/21/english-language-websites-link-pro-kremlin-russian-propaganda-pravda-network

Hundreds of English-language websites link to pro-Kremlin propaganda

Thinktank says internet flooded with disinformation by Russia-aligned Pravda network, which many websites treat as credible

https://www.international.gc.ca/world-monde/issues_development-enjeux_developpement/response_conflict-reponse_conflits/crisis-crises/ukraine-fact-fait.aspx?lang=eng

Countering disinformation with facts - Russian invasion of Ukraine

https://www.trtworld.com/article/d90a0369fc8d

France detains three for allegedly promoting Russian propaganda within humanitarian organisation

French authorities investigate three individuals tied to the SOS Donbass organisation for allegedly spreading Russian propaganda and collecting sensitive information.

 

https://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/schwerpunkte/EN/disinformation/examples-of-russian-disinformation-and-the-facts.html

 

Below are examples of disinformation which the Russian government is continually spreading via various platforms, including in Germany, in connection with its war of aggression against Ukraine. The Federal Government provides the facts to confront this disinformation.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2vr37yd4no

How Russia is quietly trying to win over the world beyond the West

 

Propganda being used in war..............I am shocked. I bet the Ukrainians do they same or get the yanks to do it for them.

Same goes on iin middle east conflict

[RanelaghScot]

I'll get labelled a Russian propagandist but I agree with what is written in the OP. I'd recommend any Jeremy Sachs interviews on the subject to balance what western media reports. 

Reality on the ground now is Ukraine doesn't have the manpower to carry out a 2022 styled counter attack. They can move specialised units from one city to another to plug a gap, but this creates holes in other areas of the front where Russia moves forward.

It's also not the same Russian army as in 2021/2022. They have adapted to drone warfare and have moved past the well prepared Ukrainian fortresses and are now faced with rushed trenches maned by very tired and unprepared men.

The EU response, especially of the likes of von der Leyen and Kaja Kallas, is what puts me off EU membership. Suits living extremely comfortable upper class lifestyles war mongering around the clock while working class Ukrainians are getting beaten up on streets and thrown into vans before spending a few hours on the front before the inevitable happens.

The war could've been avoided many years ago but the EU and US were chomping at the bit to have a war with Russia so prepared Ukraine to sacrifice it's population in order to satisfy their desire to go up against Russia. As recent as 2022 Zelensky and Putin were prepared to sign a far more generous peace deal for Ukraine but Boris convinced Zelensky not to.

The fall of the Soviet Union should've been used by Europe as an opportunity to integrate Russia into Europe. Very cheap energy for European industry. Merkel to a certain extent understood that, however Europe as a whole needed to continue to Russia bogeyman story to justify their policies. 

Now the electorate across Europe needs to be convinced by the EU and European governments that Russia would be bombing children in towns like Limerick, Stranraer, and Derry if it wasn't for the war in Ukraine in order to justify the continuation of a war that cannot be won while we increase arms spending (much to the joy of the US arms industry) and the quality of life decreases across Europe.

[phart]

On a point of pedantry and if folk actually want to watch an interview it is Jeffrey Sachs , obviously not a big deal but some folk might want to see what he is saying. 

[Ally Bongo]

Jeffrey Sachs has been a prominent voice on the Ukraine war, often linking it to the expansion of NATO and arguing it was a primary driver of the conflict. His views have drawn criticism from a group of 340 economists who published an open letter challenging what they described as "historical misrepresentations and logical fallacies"                                                        

Edited November 26, 2025 by Ally Bongo

[Ally Bongo]

 

[Ally Bongo]

https://snyder.substack.com/p/oligarchs-and-diplomats-video-with

Michael Weiss is an investgative journalist who specialises in Russia but also is aware of corruption in Ukraine

If you want to defend Russia after this then knock yourself out 

Edited November 26, 2025 by Ally Bongo

[mccaughey85]

4 hours ago, RanelaghScot said:

I'll get labelled a Russian propagandist but I agree with what is written in the OP. I'd recommend any Jeremy Sachs interviews on the subject to balance what western media reports. 

Reality on the ground now is Ukraine doesn't have the manpower to carry out a 2022 styled counter attack. They can move specialised units from one city to another to plug a gap, but this creates holes in other areas of the front where Russia moves forward.

It's also not the same Russian army as in 2021/2022. They have adapted to drone warfare and have moved past the well prepared Ukrainian fortresses and are now faced with rushed trenches maned by very tired and unprepared men.

The EU response, especially of the likes of von der Leyen and Kaja Kallas, is what puts me off EU membership. Suits living extremely comfortable upper class lifestyles war mongering around the clock while working class Ukrainians are getting beaten up on streets and thrown into vans before spending a few hours on the front before the inevitable happens.

The war could've been avoided many years ago but the EU and US were chomping at the bit to have a war with Russia so prepared Ukraine to sacrifice it's population in order to satisfy their desire to go up against Russia. As recent as 2022 Zelensky and Putin were prepared to sign a far more generous peace deal for Ukraine but Boris convinced Zelensky not to.

The fall of the Soviet Union should've been used by Europe as an opportunity to integrate Russia into Europe. Very cheap energy for European industry. Merkel to a certain extent understood that, however Europe as a whole needed to continue to Russia bogeyman story to justify their policies. 

Now the electorate across Europe needs to be convinced by the EU and European governments that Russia would be bombing children in towns like Limerick, Stranraer, and Derry if it wasn't for the war in Ukraine in order to justify the continuation of a war that cannot be won while we increase arms spending (much to the joy of the US arms industry) and the quality of life decreases across Europe.

So what was Russias main reason for invading Ukraine? 

What was their justification?

[Ally Bongo]

59 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

So what was Russias main reason for invading Ukraine? 

What was their justification?

The main reason is that they didn't want their people to want the same as the Ukranian people - as in being free of Russian Imperialism and part of the EU

It was fuck all to do with Nato expansion - everyone that joined either wanted protection from the same Russian Imperialism that either they had already escaped from or feared it was coming

And the only way Ukraine could escape it is to boot out all the politicians that were pro Russian imperialism

Something that Scotland could do well to heed 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2025 by Ally Bongo

[mccaughey85]

20 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

The main reason is that they didn't want their people to want the same as the Ukranian people - as in being free of Russian Imperialism and part of the EU

It was fuck all to do with Nato expansion - everyone that joined either wanted protection from the same Russian Imperialism that either they had already escaped from or feared it was coming

And the only way Ukraine could escape it is to boot out all the politicians that were pro Russian imperialism

Something that Scotland could do well to heed 

 

 

Thanks for that answer but I kind of wanted to hear his opinion as I doubt he sees it that way.

I agree mostly with what you said though.

[RanelaghScot]

21 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

So what was Russias main reason for invading Ukraine? 

What was their justification?

Nato expansion, Ukrainian military build up, crimes (including murder by burning people alive) committed against Russian speakers in Odessa and the Donbas.

[Ally Bongo]

1 hour ago, RanelaghScot said:

Nato expansion, Ukrainian military build up, crimes (including murder by burning people alive) committed against Russian speakers in Odessa and the Donbas.

Findings Regarding the Odessa Fire

 

• Casualties and Cause of Death: 48 people died in the clashes that day; 42 deaths were due to the fire (carbon monoxide poisoning, burns, or falling from windows while trying to escape). The victims were mostly from the Odessa region.
• Events: Street clashes between pro-Ukraine and pro-Russian activists escalated, leading the latter to take refuge in the Trade Unions House. Both sides threw Molotov cocktails, and a fire started on the third floor. It remains unclear how the fire on the third floor began, with some reports suggesting an accidental internal ignition and others pointing to external firebombs.
• Investigations and Accountability:
  • Investigations by Ukrainian authorities were found to be inadequate, biased, and lacking independence by international panels.
  • Material evidence was destroyed, and key suspects were allowed to flee to Russia.
  • The European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) ruled in March 2025 that Ukraine was responsible for failing to prevent the fatalities and for not conducting an effective investigation.
• Propaganda: Russian state media immediately characterized the events as a deliberate attack by "Ukrainian neo-Nazis" on Russian speakers, using the incident to fuel public opinion against Ukraine and justify later military actions. 

Regarding the Donbas, Russia has also alleged a "genocide of civilians" in the region by the Ukrainian army. International bodies, including the International Court of Justice (ICJ) and the International Association of Genocide Scholars, have found no evidence to support these allegations. Reports from the UN and other human rights organizations have, however, documented numerous human rights violations and war crimes committed by all sides of the conflict since 2014, including targeted killings, torture, and abductions, but not a systematic genocide by the Ukrainian state.

[Orraloon]

18 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

Findings Regarding the Odessa Fire

 

• Casualties and Cause of Death: 48 people died in the clashes that day; 42 deaths were due to the fire (carbon monoxide poisoning, burns, or falling from windows while trying to escape). The victims were mostly from the Odessa region.
• Events: Street clashes between pro-Ukraine and pro-Russian activists escalated, leading the latter to take refuge in the Trade Unions House. Both sides threw Molotov cocktails, and a fire started on the third floor. It remains unclear how the fire on the third floor began, with some reports suggesting an accidental internal ignition and others pointing to external firebombs.
• Investigations and Accountability:
  • Investigations by Ukrainian authorities were found to be inadequate, biased, and lacking independence by international panels.
  • Material evidence was destroyed, and key suspects were allowed to flee to Russia.
  • The European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) ruled in March 2025 that Ukraine was responsible for failing to prevent the fatalities and for not conducting an effective investigation.
• Propaganda: Russian state media immediately characterized the events as a deliberate attack by "Ukrainian neo-Nazis" on Russian speakers, using the incident to fuel public opinion against Ukraine and justify later military actions. 

Regarding the Donbas, Russia has also alleged a "genocide of civilians" in the region by the Ukrainian army. International bodies, including the International Court of Justice (ICJ) and the International Association of Genocide Scholars, have found no evidence to support these allegations. Reports from the UN and other human rights organizations have, however, documented numerous human rights violations and war crimes committed by all sides of the conflict since 2014, including targeted killings, torture, and abductions, but not a systematic genocide by the Ukrainian state.

Is that your own view, or is that a "copy and paste job"?

[Ally Bongo]

2 hours ago, Orraloon said:

Is that your own view, or is that a "copy and paste job"?

I know you are having a dig however it is fairly obvious that highlighted and italics shows the information is sourced 

It's not that difficult if you google "Findings regarding the Odessa Fire" which i conveniently put at the very top and AI does all the work for you 

 

[Orraloon]

1 minute ago, Ally Bongo said:

I know you are having a dig however it is fairly obvious that highlighted and italics shows the information is sourced 

It's not that difficult if you google "Findings regarding the Odessa Fire" which i conveniently put at the very top and AI does all the work for you 

 

You said you reported a post for copy and pasting Russian propaganda, but it's OK for you to copy and paste google propaganda? Is that the rules now?