Future of the far/right in UK

[Hertsscot]

This is a bit rambling but I'm wondering what people's thoughts are on the future of the far right in the UK over the next few years.

In the short term I think the Tories are more or less finished as a political force, something I would never have anticipated even a couple of years back. 

I'm trying to figure out the relationship between Reform and Yaxley-Lennon. Trump seems to support Farage, Musk seems to support Y-L and I'm not convinced the UK Govt is taking interference seriously enough. Farage and Y-L have common concerns but Farage has distanced himself from Y-L. How does that play out, is my understanding too simplistic? 

Is Y-L just a leader of a protest group and how does that affect party politics as I can't see him ever forming a political party. And I guess ultimately what's in this for Y-L? It's like the old job interview question, 'Tommy, where do you see yourself in four or five years time?'

[RDFH64]

1 hour ago, Hertsscot said:

This is a bit rambling but I'm wondering what people's thoughts are on the future of the far right in the UK over the next few years.

In the short term I think the Tories are more or less finished as a political force, something I would never have anticipated even a couple of years back. 

I'm trying to figure out the relationship between Reform and Yaxley-Lennon. Trump seems to support Farage, Musk seems to support Y-L and I'm not convinced the UK Govt is taking interference seriously enough. Farage and Y-L have common concerns but Farage has distanced himself from Y-L. How does that play out, is my understanding too simplistic? 

Is Y-L just a leader of a protest group and how does that affect party politics as I can't see him ever forming a political party. And I guess ultimately what's in this for Y-L? It's like the old job interview question, 'Tommy, where do you see yourself in four or five years time?'

Can you imagine the rage from Trump & his MAGA maniacs if people from other nations started interfering in American politics like right wing Americans are doing to the UKs.

[vanderark14]

56 minutes ago, RDFH64 said:

Can you imagine the rage from Trump & his MAGA maniacs if people from other nations started interfering in American politics like right wing Americans are doing to the UKs.

Israel do and he says nothing.

[Ally Bongo]

2 hours ago, Hertsscot said:

This is a bit rambling but I'm wondering what people's thoughts are on the future of the far right in the UK over the next few years.

In the short term I think the Tories are more or less finished as a political force, something I would never have anticipated even a couple of years back. 

I'm trying to figure out the relationship between Reform and Yaxley-Lennon. Trump seems to support Farage, Musk seems to support Y-L and I'm not convinced the UK Govt is taking interference seriously enough. Farage and Y-L have common concerns but Farage has distanced himself from Y-L. How does that play out, is my understanding too simplistic? 

Is Y-L just a leader of a protest group and how does that affect party politics as I can't see him ever forming a political party. And I guess ultimately what's in this for Y-L? It's like the old job interview question, 'Tommy, where do you see yourself in four or five years time?'

Once Reform are in power the mask will slip and by that time YL will be a bigger "English Patriot" than he is now 

Everything and anything is then up in the air 

Everyone laughs when you make the comparison with when the Nazis finally won power 

However that is the analogy - and they already have Trump's playbook to copy and improve 

[Orraloon]

10 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Once Reform are in power the mask will slip and by that time YL will be a bigger "English Patriot" than he is now 

Everything and anything is then up in the air 

Everyone laughs when you make the comparison with when the Nazis finally won power 

However that is the analogy - and they already have Trump's playbook to copy and improve 

There are a lot of similarities to the fall of the Weimar Republic. I hope it doesn't come to a similar resolution, but it may be interesting to see how easy it could be to persuade a lot of people to sign up to take part in the next "holocaust". By the sounds of things some folk are half way there already. One major difference though, is that the level of unemployment and absolute poverty in Weimar Germany was huge. We don't have that major issue as a factor in the UK at present. Things could change though.

[TDYER63]

Despite their apparent dislike for each other there are lots of ways to join the dots between Trump/Musk/Farage/Robinson, none of them attractive .

I mentioned in another post about Farage keeping Robinson at arms length but letting him do all the donkey work regarding with marches and social media, whilst he keeps his powder dry. I can see the normalisation of Tommy Robinson continuing .

I dont believe for a moment that all the people at that march were massive TR fans, there will be people who genuinely are worried , but by attending something he has organised you are effectively giving him a thumbs up.

People are being manipulated and they cant  see it. It probably ends when Farage &. co achieve the total sum of fuck all. By then who knows how far things will have sunk. 

Starmer is far too weak , he has his head up Trumps arse and is probably feart to be too critical of Farage because he is pally with Trump. The problem is , as a former Australian PM said, by sucking up to bullies you only get more bullying. 

[jailender]

I met a guy in pub near Inverness on Monday who had missed his train north. He said he had been to London for the march!! I was gobsmacked. Didn't bother getting into conversation after that. 

[Malcolm]

the far right are barely represented politically in the UK.  Britain First, EDL have no political clout.

[DoonTheSlope]

fAr rIgHt 🥱 

When you’re so far to the left everything is far right

[Hertsscot]

2 hours ago, Malcolm said:

the far right are barely represented politically in the UK.  Britain First, EDL have no political clout.

Thanks Malcolm. I'd disagree and I'd say if we were analysing their policies by most definitions Reform are actually far right even if they're more moderate than the EDL etc. However rather than the thread getting bogged down in semantics, lets just focus on the relationship between the Tories, Reform and Tommy Y-L.

Malcolm, where do you see this ending up in the next years leading up to the next GE?

 

 

[Malcolm]

7 hours ago, Hertsscot said:

Thanks Malcolm. I'd disagree and I'd say if we were analysing their policies by most definitions Reform are actually far right even if they're more moderate than the EDL etc. However rather than the thread getting bogged down in semantics, lets just focus on the relationship between the Tories, Reform and Tommy Y-L.

Malcolm, where do you see this ending up in the next years leading up to the next GE?

 

 

very similar to where we are today.  

the real story here is the catastrophic collapse in the Conservative party.  it feels like its been coming since the Brexit vote. 
 

Reform have filled that void and are essentially the Tories but promising to get the job done.  One wonders if the Tories had a decent leader and had really demonstrated a tough stance on immigration where we might be.

i think the biggest risk to Reform is that the Tories get their act together.  The thing is people vote for winners and the Tories are not looking like winning anything.

tommy Robinson is an irrelevance aside from organising marches.  He has no association with any of the major political parties as far as I am aware. 
 

amazing as it is, Reform will likely win the next general election, maybe not with an overall majority and may have to do a deal with the Tories to get any business done.  

[Och Aye]

17 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

Everyone laughs when you make the comparison with when the Nazis finally won power  

Yep. The the question "how on earth did Hitler convince a whole country into that ideology" is now laughable.

We are now witnessing how it can be done.

[Hertsscot]

2 hours ago, Malcolm said:

Tommy Robinson is an irrelevance aside from organising marches.  He has no association with any of the major political parties as far as I am aware. 
 

amazing as it is, Reform will likely win the next general election, maybe not with an overall majority and may have to do a deal with the Tories to get any business done.  

Thanks.

I'm kind of hoping Yaxley-Lennon is an irrelevance,  I worry he might not be. Who's backing him, what's their agenda?

I also wonder whether Reform would need to do a deal with the Tories. Not long ago there were loads of 'safe' Tory seats, I'm not sure they exist anymore.

[vanderark14]

2 minutes ago, Hertsscot said:

Thanks.

I'm kind of hoping Yaxley-Lennon is an irrelevance,  I worry he might not be. Who's backing him, what's their agenda?

I also wonder whether Reform would need to do a deal with the Tories. Not long ago there were loads of 'safe' Tory seats, I'm not sure they exist anymore.

They don't exist, my local MP won by a whisker this time..........almost lost to a lib dem muslim which is ironic considering the current climate. The seat for this are has been Tory since the early 1900s now its on a shoogly peg. I think the lib dem guy will run again and win because a percentage of the tory vote will go to refom, however in other areas, Labour and the tories are getting battered in the polls........both votes are heading to reform. 

Whether reform replace the tories permanently as the right party is up for debate

[vanderark14]

2 hours ago, Malcolm said:

very similar to where we are today.  

the real story here is the catastrophic collapse in the Conservative party.  it feels like its been coming since the Brexit vote. 
 

Reform have filled that void and are essentially the Tories but promising to get the job done.  One wonders if the Tories had a decent leader and had really demonstrated a tough stance on immigration where we might be.

i think the biggest risk to Reform is that the Tories get their act together.  The thing is people vote for winners and the Tories are not looking like winning anything.

tommy Robinson is an irrelevance aside from organising marches.  He has no association with any of the major political parties as far as I am aware. 
 

amazing as it is, Reform will likely win the next general election, maybe not with an overall majority and may have to do a deal with the Tories to get any business done.  

Disagree, he may not be officially connected to reform but his marches and his voice will drive people to reform. It amazes me how many people take his opinion seriously

[Malcolm]

4 minutes ago, Hertsscot said:

Thanks.

I'm kind of hoping Yaxley-Lennon is an irrelevance,  I worry he might not be. Who's backing him, what's their agenda?

I also wonder whether Reform would need to do a deal with the Tories. Not long ago there were loads of 'safe' Tory seats, I'm not sure they exist anymore.

 

They may not… if polling remains as it is they wouldn’t.  i suspect when we get to a GE some people will go back to traditional voting of Labour/Tory.

 

[vanderark14]

33 minutes ago, Och Aye said:

Yep. The the question "how on earth did Hitler convince a whole country into that ideology" is now laughable.

We are now witnessing how it can be done.

DO you really believe thats where we are heading?

 

[Malcolm]

1 minute ago, vanderark14 said:

Disagree, he may not be officially connected to reform but his marches and his voice will drive people to reform. It amazes me how many people take his opinion seriously

that may be a consequence, but nothing to do with Reform.  

incidentally, a massive win for Reform from Labour in Wales last night. 

[Malcolm]

38 minutes ago, Och Aye said:

Yep. The the question "how on earth did Hitler convince a whole country into that ideology" is now laughable.

We are now witnessing how it can be done.

whats 1930s Germany got to do with anything happening in the UK right now.  totally different and an irrelevant comparison.

[Hertsscot]

5 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

whats 1930s Germany got to do with anything happening in the UK right now.  totally different and an irrelevant comparison.

History does not repeat itself but it does rhyme. I don't think anyone here is suggesting we're going to end up with death camps but surely you can understand why some minority groups in particular might be anxious and fearful about the future?

[vanderark14]

2 minutes ago, Hertsscot said:

History does not repeat itself but it does rhyme. I don't think anyone here is suggesting we're going to end up with death camps but surely you can understand why some minority groups in particular might be anxious and fearful about the future?

I can understand that, absolutely. Its new territory for everyone and there is clear racial, political and ideological division between people in the west right now. However labelling everything Nazi, Fascist etc or comparing the UK to Nazi germany is lazy and in my opinion it dilutes the meaning of those words 

[hampden_loon2878]

21 hours ago, RDFH64 said:

Can you imagine the rage from Trump & his MAGA maniacs if people from other nations started interfering in American politics like right wing Americans are doing to the UKs.

didn't labour send over activists for the democrats at the last election in america? 

[Och Aye]

1 hour ago, vanderark14 said:

DO you really believe thats where we are heading?

 

Not yet. My point is that certain people can successfully whip up anti foreign sentiment  when things are being mismanaged by hopelessly poor government. The support for the likes of Farage and Tommy Robinson is astonishing. The media has been involved in this too.

[vanderark14]

6 minutes ago, Och Aye said:

Not yet. My point is that certain people can successfully whip up anti foreign sentiment  when things are being mismanaged by hopelessly poor government. The support for the likes of Farage and Tommy Robinson is astonishing. The media has been involved in this too.

Government gain support in every election or referendum by whipping up fear, nobody should know that better than us after 2014

[Och Aye]

1 hour ago, Malcolm said:

whats 1930s Germany got to do with anything happening in the UK right now.  totally different and an irrelevant comparison.

Don't agree with most of your opinions on here but you seem like an educated guy. Can you not see any similarities to the arguments used by the National Fascist Party in the early 1930s? I'm talking about the early seeds that  were being spread.