Scott McTominay !! They love him !!🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[Big Ramy 1314]

13 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

I think we all wish that.

The problem we have and tbh have had for 25 odd years is that we dont have an all round good striker. 

Adams is good at running, moving defenders about etc but not good at finishing or holding the ball up. Similar to Miller was back in the day.

Dykes is good at holding ball up, roughing up defenders and good in the air but cant run or move defenders about.

All our other forwards have stengths but also big weaknesses. 

In the absence of somebody coming through we need to just continue to have tactics that work with what we have got.

Good post. You are correct mate. We can only manage with what we have. Why? Why? can we produce World class defenders, World class midfielder, world class goalkeepers, but yet no strikers ?? Does ma heid in !!!

[Squirrelhumper]

3 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Agreed. If you look at a lot of his goals they come from him making late runs into the box and latch on to a cross or ball running loose to him - that is his strength. Playing further upfield as a striker negates that threat and strength.

Agreed, anyone with a football brain can see he's an attacking midfielder and not a striker. 

He'd be wasted playing as a striker IMO. He's good at driving at teams and making those late runs. 

[Diamond Scot]

1 hour ago, Big Ramy 1314 said:

Good post. You are correct mate. We can only manage with what we have. Why? Why? can we produce World class defenders, World class midfielder, world class goalkeepers, but yet no strikers ?? Does ma heid in !!!

Probably because forward players are the hardest to produce. To be a top class forward these days you tend to have to be technically and tactically very sound as well as being physically good. 

Our league / culture doesnt focus on technique, tactics or fitness to an elite level.

 

[Diamond Scot]

52 minutes ago, AtVsfan said:

McTominay is the cleanest, hardest and more accurate striker of the ball Scotland has.

McTominay's second goal was from a standing jump in the box. The notion that he scores all his goals from deep is a fallacy.

We have McGinn, Ferguson, Christie, etc, who can make runs into the box.

Bottom line. Strikers should be able to strike the ball and score. Adams, Dykes, Shankland, Conway, Nisbet, etc, couldn't hit water if they fell off a boat.

Shankland is a very clinical striker. The problem is he has no other attributes to go with it.

Ball striking is only 1 element of being a striker. Coming from deep you are arriving in the box unmarked. When you start as a striker you have 2 defenders whose job it is to mark you and stop you shooting. 

His 2nd goal yesterday was poor marking albeit a really good header. McTom has scored a few headers in his career but he doesnt normally strike them very cleanly. A few have comd off his cheek / shoulder etc.

Ive no doubt he would do a job up front. He might even do a better job than our actual strikers but I also think we lose too much by playing him up there. He is a miles better footballer than McGinn, Ferguson and Christie. The vision, pace of passing, close control etc he has is only matched by 1 player in our squad and thats Gilmour.

[er yir macaroon]

44 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

Shankland is a very clinical striker. The problem is he has no other attributes to go with it.

Ball striking is only 1 element of being a striker. Coming from deep you are arriving in the box unmarked. When you start as a striker you have 2 defenders whose job it is to mark you and stop you shooting. 

His 2nd goal yesterday was poor marking albeit a really good header. McTom has scored a few headers in his career but he doesnt normally strike them very cleanly. A few have comd off his cheek / shoulder etc.

Ive no doubt he would do a job up front. He might even do a better job than our actual strikers but I also think we lose too much by playing him up there. He is a miles better footballer than McGinn, Ferguson and Christie. The vision, pace of passing, close control etc he has is only matched by 1 player in our squad and thats Gilmour.

Some sweeping statements in there. Shankland has plenty of attributes including an ability to link play and play a pass in the final third. I'm not touting him for the team but he's more than just a finisher. McTominay doesn't have better vision than McGinn and his ball retention is not always the best. 

[ghorne67]

2 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

I think we all wish that.

The problem we have and tbh have had for 25 odd years is that we dont have an all round good striker. 

Adams is good at running, moving defenders about etc but not good at finishing or holding the ball up. Similar to Miller was back in the day.

Dykes is good at holding ball up, roughing up defenders and good in the air but cant run or move defenders about.

All our other forwards have stengths but also big weaknesses. 

In the absence of somebody coming through we need to just continue to have tactics that work with what we have got.

There hasn't been a quality Scottish striker born since the 1970s. How depressing is that! 

[Diamond Scot]

1 hour ago, er yir macaroon said:

Some sweeping statements in there. Shankland has plenty of attributes including an ability to link play and play a pass in the final third. I'm not touting him for the team but he's more than just a finisher. McTominay doesn't have better vision than McGinn and his ball retention is not always the best. 

Imo Shankland has improved loads in his link up and general all round play however the starting point was very low. He suffered this season from dropping slightly deeper and linking play more. To the extent he hasnt always started for Hearts.

When we are talking about the standard required for Scotland 1st team level, he doesnt have any other attributes other than finishing. 

McTominays vision is far better than McGinns. McTominay is just a level above technically. You can see it with pace and accuracy of passing.  You are right about ball retention. McGinn is able to hold off players better than McTominay. 

2 slightly different players and both an asset to Scotland. 

If Scotland had another player like Doak im not actually sure what formation id play. 433 would be the natural choice with those 2 wingers but id always play Gilmour and McTominay. I think having McGinn as the 3rd takes away from what makes him and McTominay so effective whilst also leaving Gilmour exposed defensively.

[stocky]

1 hour ago, ghorne67 said:

There hasn't been a quality Scottish striker born since the 1970s. How depressing is that! 

I would say we have had a few.

However they all had various levels of bammerry and cannae be phukkeditis.

I give you....

Boyd, O'Conner, Fletcher, Rhodes, McCormack, Griffiths, big Dunc..... I'm sure there are more 

We have had enough decent stickers but for one reason or another they couldn't/wouldn't do it for Scotland.⚽🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[vanderark14]

3 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

Shankland is a very clinical striker. The problem is he has no other attributes to go with it.

Ball striking is only 1 element of being a striker. Coming from deep you are arriving in the box unmarked. When you start as a striker you have 2 defenders whose job it is to mark you and stop you shooting. 

His 2nd goal yesterday was poor marking albeit a really good header. McTom has scored a few headers in his career but he doesnt normally strike them very cleanly. A few have comd off his cheek / shoulder etc.

Ive no doubt he would do a job up front. He might even do a better job than our actual strikers but I also think we lose too much by playing him up there. He is a miles better footballer than McGinn, Ferguson and Christie. The vision, pace of passing, close control etc he has is only matched by 1 player in our squad and thats Gilmour.

I'm sure his winner against Israel at hampden came off his shoulder or face too

What a bounce that goal was

Agree with absolutely everything you have said. 

[slasher]

5 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

Shankland is a very clinical striker. The problem is he has no other attributes to go with it.

You’re playing a bit fast and loose with the terms ‘very clinical’ there. He’s literally scored 4 goals this season. The second sentence I agree on. He really is distinctly average.

[Diamond Scot]

3 hours ago, slasher said:

You’re playing a bit fast and loose with the terms ‘very clinical’ there. He’s literally scored 4 goals this season. The second sentence I agree on. He really is distinctly average.

Very clinical by Scottish standards. His drop in goals this season have at least in part been because of his new role of being more involved in other aspects of the game. That and his serious lack of professionalism with regards to his weight.

I agree that Boyd was a better finisher though.

[Squirrelhumper]

18 hours ago, AtVsfan said:

McTominay is the cleanest, hardest and more accurate striker of the ball Scotland has.

McTominay's second goal was from a standing jump in the box. The notion that he scores all his goals from deep is a fallacy.

We have McGinn, Ferguson, Christie, etc, who can make runs into the box.

Bottom line. Strikers should be able to strike the ball and score. Adams, Dykes, Shankland, Conway, Nisbet, etc, couldn't hit water if they fell off a boat.

Not saw one person say that. So you are making stuff up to suit your argument. 

He scores most of his goals from deep though. 

Shankland scored 30 odd goals last season, he's quite good at hitting the ball and scoring,  albeit he's had a poor season. Not always playing as a number 9 i may add. 

Thank christ you aren't scotland manager, you'd have the playing sleeping before they'd even gone out for their warm up. 

[Squirrelhumper]

16 hours ago, ghorne67 said:

There hasn't been a quality Scottish striker born since the 1970s. How depressing is that! 

Who was that?

[GHfaeGTA]

2 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Who was that?

Big Dunc? 

[Yr Alban]

17 hours ago, slasher said:

You’re playing a bit fast and loose with the terms ‘very clinical’ there. He’s literally scored 4 goals this season. The second sentence I agree on. He really is distinctly average.

He’s been atrocious this season. That isn’t in dispute. But you have to consider his form in the last two seasons, when everything he touched went in. Hearts fans had a nasty suspicion he was carrying the team last year, and when his form deserted him it turned out he was.

The problem he has always had is that he has no pace. That has led to him playing deeper, and wanting to be a 10 rather than a striker. This actually worked last year. He’s a very good link player and his off the ball movement is also very good, and he was still scoring. He was by some distance the form striker last summer and should have got a lot more time for Scotland.

This year it’s a different story. For whatever reason, he hasn’t looked interested or up for it. He has barely scored at all, and his bad attitude has bled into the team because he is captain. I wouldn’t have him anywhere near the Scotland team right now. But that doesn’t mean he was ‘distinctly average’ a year ago.

[exile]

On 4/15/2025 at 4:15 PM, ghorne67 said:

There hasn't been a quality Scottish striker born since the 1970s. How depressing is that! 

What about Kenny Miller? Scored against Italy, Germany and England...

Edited April 16, 2025 by exile

[exile]

8 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

World Class player is a better barometer

And we havent had any born after 1960 ...

For a nation that has football as it's number one sport it is dreadful and lies solely at the feet of the custodians of the game

It may be a better barometer of something, but then again, if world class player means someone who'd get in any nation's team, then that's fine, but would we rather have a world class striker, or a team that works well as a team, capable of competing in a major tournament? I mean it's possible to do that without necessarily any individual player world class. 

But as for the quality strikers, who would be our last 'quality' striker?

[er yir macaroon]

36 minutes ago, exile said:

It may be a better barometer of something, but then again, if world class player means someone who'd get in any nation's team, then that's fine, but would we rather have a world class striker, or a team that works well as a team, capable of competing in a major tournament? I mean it's possible to do that without necessarily any individual player world class. 

But as for the quality strikers, who would be our last 'quality' striker?

Dalglish and Mo Johnston, and to a lesser extent McCoist. Big Dunc should have been on that list but it didn't happen. 

[Big Ramy 1314]

1 hour ago, exile said:

What about Kenny Miller? Scored against Italy, Germany and England...

Kenny Miller was shite !!!

[exile]

40 minutes ago, Big Ramy 1314 said:

Kenny Miller was shite !!!

And yet, he found the net against Italy, Germany and England. When was the last Scotland player to do that?

[Diamond Scot]

3 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

World Class player is a better barometer

And we havent had any born after 1960 ...

For a nation that has football as it's number one sport it is dreadful and lies solely at the feet of the custodians of the game

I think world class is the wrong test. I tend to use the phrase European class. For me thats a player starting reguarly for top sides in one of the better leagues and doing well in Europe. An example id use for a striker would be Robbie Keane. We havent had a Robbie Keane level striker for 30 years. 

A Robbie Keane level striker takes us to major tournaments between 2000 and 2020 imo. A Robbie Keane level striker takes us out of group stages at major tournaments with the current squad.

[Squirrelhumper]

21 hours ago, GHfaeGTA said:

Big Dunc? 

Never scored for Scotland and wasn't exactly prolific. 

Big target man but top class goalscoer, nah. 

[Squirrelhumper]

13 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

World Class player is a better barometer

And we havent had any born after 1960 ...

For a nation that has football as it's number one sport it is dreadful and lies solely at the feet of the custodians of the game

Andy Robertson would have got a game for any cub side in the world at his peak IMO. 

[Squirrelhumper]

12 hours ago, er yir macaroon said:

Dalglish and Mo Johnston, and to a lesser extent McCoist. Big Dunc should have been on that list but it didn't happen. 

McCoist had a marginally better strike rate than Kenny Miller. 

Out with their scoring, Miller, IMO did more for the team than McCoist. 

[slasher]

19 hours ago, Yr Alban said:

He’s been atrocious this season. That isn’t in dispute. But you have to consider his form in the last two seasons, when everything he touched went in. Hearts fans had a nasty suspicion he was carrying the team last year, and when his form deserted him it turned out he was.

The problem he has always had is that he has no pace. That has led to him playing deeper, and wanting to be a 10 rather than a striker. This actually worked last year. He’s a very good link player and his off the ball movement is also very good, and he was still scoring. He was by some distance the form striker last summer and should have got a lot more time for Scotland.

This year it’s a different story. For whatever reason, he hasn’t looked interested or up for it. He has barely scored at all, and his bad attitude has bled into the team because he is captain. I wouldn’t have him anywhere near the Scotland team right now. But that doesn’t mean he was ‘distinctly average’ a year ago.

I think we possibly only disagree on our definition of ‘distinctly average.’ 

Michael Higdon and Liam Boyce are both fairly recent examples of strikers playing at clubs outwith the big 2 who have scored fairly heavily in the Scottish Premiership. I wouldn’t have described either as any better than average even at their best. In fact, you could argue if anything Boyce was better than Shankland in linking the play as well when at his best.