Paris 2024

[phart]

15 hours ago, Hertsscot said:

They've talked about it being 'a slow pool'. I'm not much of a swimmer, what exactly does that mean? I get how an athletics track might be fast but less clear about how that can be true for a pool.

It's to do with depth and also extra camera equipment meaning the water displaced by the swimmers bounces back to them and slows them, apparently.

Edited August 1, 2024 by phart

[vanderark14]

1 hour ago, Ally Bongo said:

Angela Carini abandons Olympic fight after 46 seconds against Imane Khelif

• Algerian was barred from 2023 world championships
• Controversy after Khelif failed IBA gender test 

That is an absolute joke

[vanderark14]

1 hour ago, Ally Bongo said:

Angela Carini abandons Olympic fight after 46 seconds against Imane Khelif

• Algerian was barred from 2023 world championships
• Controversy after Khelif failed IBA gender test 

And the media pander to these trans athletes 

 

 

[Hertsscot]

1 hour ago, phart said:

It's to do with depth and also extra camera equipment meaning the water displaced by the swimmers bounces back to them and slows them, apparently.

Thanks. Depth makes sense (more, faster; less, slower?) but I wouldn't have thought about camera equivalent.

[phart]

Just to point out the boxer doesn't seem to be a trans issue, but a DSD: Differences in sex development (Caster Semenya) issue. Their passport has always been "female". They already boxed in 4 world championships and an Olympics before failing a sex test last year.

Ross Tucker Sports scientist,  professor of exercise physiology and also an expert witness for the Semenya case has a podcast on it: https://podcasts.apple.com/za/podcast/the-real-science-of-sport-podcast/id1461719225?i=1000664021676

 

 

[phart]

19 minutes ago, Hertsscot said:

Thanks. Depth makes sense (more, faster; less, slower?) but I wouldn't have thought about camera equivalent.

Yeah same, plus cameras move as well so create their own displacements. Yeah swimmers create "energy" which in a shallower pool is spread across less volume. this bounces back and interferes in ways too complicated for me to work out

Edited August 1, 2024 by phart

[Malcolm]

56 minutes ago, phart said:

Just to point out the boxer doesn't seem to be a trans issue, but a DSD: Differences in sex development (Caster Semenya) issue. Their passport has always been "female". They already boxed in 4 world championships and an Olympics before failing a sex test last year.

Ross Tucker Sports scientist,  professor of exercise physiology and also an expert witness for the Semenya case has a podcast on it: https://podcasts.apple.com/za/podcast/the-real-science-of-sport-podcast/id1461719225?i=1000664021676

 

 

it’s a man.  I believe they have the testosterone levels of a man and hence why were unable to compete as a woman in other events.

[DoonTheSlope]

This is what years and years of pandering to these cunts has led to

[phart]

1 minute ago, Malcolm said:

it’s a man.  I believe they have the testosterone levels of a man and hence why were unable to compete as a woman in other events.

I don't believe they should be competing either. I'm just trying to explain the criteria and why etc beyond

cock? Aye/no

[Malcolm]

4 minutes ago, DoonTheSlope said:

This is what years and years of pandering to these cunts has led to

completely agree.  The worlds gone fucking mad with woke bullshit.

[dan cake]

19 hours ago, Hertsscot said:

They've talked about it being 'a slow pool'. I'm not much of a swimmer, what exactly does that mean? I get how an athletics track might be fast but less clear about how that can be true for a pool.

It’s uphill 

[dan cake]

1 hour ago, DoonTheSlope said:

This is what years and years of pandering to these cocks has led to

Fixed it 

[Hertsscot]

1 hour ago, Malcolm said:

it’s a man.  I believe they have the testosterone levels of a man and hence why were unable to compete as a woman in other events.

That's what I'm trying to get at. What exactly are the different criteria between the IOC which permitted the Algerian to compete and the IBA which didn't?

It may have been explained somewhere and I may have missed it.

[mariokempes]

3 hours ago, phart said:

Just to point out the boxer doesn't seem to be a trans issue, but a DSD: Differences in sex development (Caster Semenya) issue. Their passport has always been "female". They already boxed in 4 world championships and an Olympics before failing a sex test last year.

Ross Tucker Sports scientist,  professor of exercise physiology and also an expert witness for the Semenya case has a podcast on it: https://podcasts.apple.com/za/podcast/the-real-science-of-sport-podcast/id1461719225?i=1000664021676

 

 

Semenya is a FATHER to two...he's a man ffs

[Hertsscot]

1 hour ago, mariokempes said:

Semenya is a FATHER to two...he's a man ffs

Have you got a source for that? I was under the impression that Semenya's condition implied infertility and assumed that Caster Semenya's wife had IVF with donated sperm. 

Whatever the rights and wrongs of DSD athletes there's a big difference between being allowed to compete in the boxing ring compared to the running track 

[phart]

1 hour ago, mariokempes said:

Semenya is a FATHER to two...he's a man ffs

A DSD case. They have a vagina but internal testes. Due to various biological processes during development. It wasn't till stringent genetic testing was the condition even discovered. Phenotypically female with genotypical male traits.

They shouldn't compete in womans sport due to inherent advantages but the situation is complex outside that.

[Goozay]

Two facts that I haven't seen anywhere else, but are important to the Imane Khelif, the Algerian boxer.

Imane Khelif competed in the previous Olympic Games in Tokyo where they were knocked out in the quarter-finals by Ireland's Kellie Harringtton. So far this story has had the narrative of women can't beat Khelif, that's not true.

Second, Algeria is pretty restrictive when it comes to LGBTQ rights, in fact I think they don't have any rights. So the perception that Khelif is living some sort of gender bending life day-to-day is false.

[phart]

1 minute ago, Goozay said:

Two facts that I haven't seen anywhere else, but are important to the Imane Khelif, the Algerian boxer.

Imane Khelif competed in the previous Olympic Games in Tokyo where they were knocked out in the quarter-finals by Ireland's Kellie Harringtton. So far this story has had the narrative of women can't beat Khelif, that's not true.

Second, Algeria is pretty restrictive when it comes to LGBTQ rights, in fact I think they don't have any rights. So the perception that Khelif is living some sort of gender bending life day-to-day is false.

Social media has just whipped up a moral panic on "trans" issue hence the reaction. While this appears to be a complicated genetic issue.

The inability to distinguish the difference is worrying as they are also the TAMB's top political strategists for independence. Which requires orders of magnitude more nuance and smarts to navigate.

Anyway the science is in the podcast by an expert witness in a similiar case if folk want to listen to it.

[phart]

4 hours ago, Malcolm said:

it’s a man.  I believe they have the testosterone levels of a man and hence why were unable to compete as a woman in other events.

Nope testosterone tests weren't conducted

 

"Point to note, the athletes did not undergo a testosterone examination"

https://www.iba.sport/news/statement-made-by-the-international-boxing-association-regarding-athletes-disqualifications-in-world-boxing-championships-2023/

[StirlingEgg]

Pity about Murray going out there. If only all those points won at deuce weren't winning a couple of games to catch up instead. 

[Hertsscot]

Interesting comments from the Aussie coach who said there would be no complaints if Khelif boxed against one of his fighters.

'She was disqualified, but I have not seen her fail any gender test,' he said. 'The IOC said they are matching the criteria from the IOC so that's the only thing you can go by. We fought her two months ago. She's good, she's tough, she's strong, but I wasn't under the impression we were fighting a man. We are prepared to fight anyone in front of us here. 

I understand this issue is not as black and white as many people want to make it. We don't have all the information so I don't want to speculate on that.'

I don't know if he's being diplomatic but I just think this situation was utterly predictable and that the IOC should have been more proactive. 

[phart]

42 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Would you like to expand on what "difference" the "difference" is ?

You already said you dont believe "she" should be competing against women

Can you imagine what would have happened if the punch "she" landed had done more damage ?

And just because she fought in the last olympics is no argument since it was 4 years ago - and 4 years more stronger

I tend to side with people who know more than me

judy murray

 

@JudyMurray

 

This should never have been allowed to happen. Bring back the swab test. Sport has to be fair and safe for biological women

 

The difference between a transgender MTF and someone with DSD.

They've boxed in 40 odd matches before and competed in 4 world championships and 1 olympics. They have been knocked out themselves and lost multiple matches.

They shouldn't be competing though if all the information we have is correct. The IOC are to blame.

Everything i'm talking about is informed by Ross Tucker who is a professor of exercise physiology and was an expert witness in the major sporting DSD case. The biology, the history, the known facts all covered by an expert is available above. Now of course it means you have to listen and process information for 50 mins.

Everyone is singing from the same hymm sheet regarding whether they should compete. The full argument takes time to make though.

Anyway carry-on with your moral panic and doom scrolling twitter though, that'll serve you well in life.

[phart]

1 hour ago, StirlingEgg said:

Pity about Murray going out there. If only all those points won at deuce weren't winning a couple of games to catch up instead. 

What a career though, especially these last 5 years.

[slasher]

The longest goodbye in fuckin history is finally over.

Thanks for the memories Andy…….but enough now!

[Hertsscot]

1 hour ago, StirlingEgg said:

Pity about Murray going out there. If only all those points won at deuce weren't winning a couple of games to catch up instead. 

Slightly overshadowed by the boxing controversy but what a player. It's a bit disappointing how he bowed out and I'm sure he would have liked to have gone out in different circumstances. However he'll have great memories of the fightbacks in those first two games.

There was some talk amongst the BBC team about Murray's future and the influence he could have in GB sport. I would love to think there would be a legacy for Scottish tennis and Scottish sport more generally.