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34 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

Aye all want the same thing but I don't agree.

I think we've just had an overhaul that's starting to see fruits. I would suggest Hearts are a good example of what has been achieved.  Hearts were in the championship a blink of an eye ago. Reaping their ambition, good on them. Dundee utd were in championship and Europe too within a few years, have invested and gone the other way.  Such is football.

Airdrie have as good a chance as any club in Europe at promotion via the playoffs currently. Nearly half the teams in the league have a chance at it.  I don't see why they should get drafted to a closed shop because it's too hard rather than on merit. They may even do it this year!  also, how can they and other similar clubs not plan? they've been much of a muchness since its reincarnation..they're always going to be a yo yo team between champ and league one with an emphasis on league one.  That's something which can be planned.  I honestly don't think it would be a given Airdrie would even feature as one of these elite clubs your proposing.  Definitely on the cusp.  How would you and your community feel if you were a Dumbarton and punted from senior football with no ability to gain membership?  What message does that send?

On the other end of the scale, Falkirk who have actually had a five year plan, invested in the first team and remained professional and still cant get promoted haha!  That's been due to signing poor players with no bottle, not the academy.  They have by miles the biggest budget in the league (until this year)..been purely missing bottle at the requisite time.

I would maybe make the top league bigger so there is more of a middle ground but I wouldn't close off the pyramid in any way.  It's been a success from my pov. 

Using these examples. Every year Airdrie have at least 2 teams the league who are full time. With only 1 auto promotion it pretty much means the best that can be planned for is a playoff where its likey that we will need to beat another full time team and then the 2nd bottom of Championship who are normally a full time team. Thats not as much chance as any team in Europe. Thats highly unlikely to gain promotion. Airdrie may or may not be one of the clubs in the setup but if they committed to the requirements then they are more than big enough. It was long ago Airdrie were considered a tier 2 or 3 club. 

Part time clubs are great for what they are. Part time, however other than the fairytale, what do they bring to the league setup. You were to create a football structure for competition, good on the pitch product and promoting youth, would part time clubs be anywhere near your thinking?

Prem chairman are on record as saying they cant think long term because of the risk of relegation. Managers are in the same boat, why play an 18 year old Scottish player over a 30 year old journeyman when most games are must win. They do what they need to in order to keep their job. We need to break the mould of the status qou.

If you change nothing then why would anything ever change?

If football came to Scotland now. A population of 5 million. Would you propose a 42 team setup, with part time teams getting 200 fans?

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6 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

Using these examples. Every year Airdrie have at least 2 teams the league who are full time. With only 1 auto promotion it pretty much means the best that can be planned for is a playoff where its likey that we will need to beat another full time team and then the 2nd bottom of Championship who are normally a full time team. Thats not as much chance as any team in Europe. Thats highly unlikely to gain promotion. Airdrie may or may not be one of the clubs in the setup but if they committed to the requirements then they are more than big enough. It was long ago Airdrie were considered a tier 2 or 3 club. 

Part time clubs are great for what they are. Part time, however other than the fairytale, what do they bring to the league setup. You were to create a football structure for competition, good on the pitch product and promoting youth, would part time clubs be anywhere near your thinking?

Prem chairman are on record as saying they cant think long term because of the risk of relegation. Managers are in the same boat, why play an 18 year old Scottish player over a 30 year old journeyman when most games are must win. They do what they need to in order to keep their job. We need to break the mould of the status qou.

If you change nothing then why would anything ever change?

If football came to Scotland now. A population of 5 million. Would you propose a 42 team setup, with part time teams getting 200 fans?

We have changed.  Not long ago.  We're seeing fuller stadiums for play offs etc, people are watching the product.

The way I see it, the clubs more or less shake out to where they would be apart from Falkirk which is a bit of an aberration.  In a country of 5 million maybe 19 or so full time teams is enough which is...what we have.  Most in the Championship are full time with a decent swing at promotion.  So the bank of big to medium sized teams your calling for already exists.  We just have a pyramid system which is fair and competitive alongside it which allows smaller teams like Airdrie to get there.

In terms of Airdrie, go full time then!  They cannot be both big enough to be in this elite set up and not big enough to even attempt full time football with the odds such as they are.  A virtually guaranteed 50/50 chance of promotion against three other full time teams (actually has often been two, not that being full time is a definite advantage...it absolutely has not been😄!).   Anyway, taking your argument as correct the Championship have the built in advantage and security you are out and out calling for.    

Yes tier two or three as I said, a yo-yo between them.  circa 22-25th out of 42.  

The logical conclusion of your argument is getting rid of clubs like your own and just having the teams in Prem and Championship who are big enough to be full time.  If you could hand choose it, you may not bother having part time clubs around Glasgow.  But we are a historical football nation and these teams mean something to their community and access to football; and with the right investment can make interesting times..  As they have done in the past.  Now we have the pyramid, there's more chance of promotion for more ambitious clubs but at the same time a weighting in favour of the 9th placed team which provides some security.

 

 

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25 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

We have changed.  Not long ago.  We're seeing fuller stadiums for play offs etc, people are watching the product.

The way I see it, the clubs more or less shake out to where they would be apart from Falkirk which is a bit of an aberration.  In a country of 5 million maybe 19 or so full time teams is enough which is...what we have.  Most in the Championship are full time with a decent swing at promotion.  So the bank of big to medium sized teams your calling for already exists.  We just have a pyramid system which is fair and competitive alongside it which allows smaller teams like Airdrie to get there.

In terms of Airdrie, go full time then!  They cannot be both big enough to be in this elite set up and not big enough to even attempt full time football with the odds such as they are.  A virtually guaranteed 50/50 chance of promotion against three other full time teams (actually has often been two, not that being full time is a definite advantage...it absolutely has not been😄!).   Anyway, taking your argument as correct the Championship have the built in advantage and security you are out and out calling for.    

Yes tier two or three as I said, a yo-yo between them.  circa 22-25th out of 42.  

The logical conclusion of your argument is getting rid of clubs like your own and just having the teams in Prem and Championship who are big enough to be full time.  If you could hand choose it, you may not bother having part time clubs around Glasgow.  But we are a historical football nation and these teams mean something to their community and access to football; and with the right investment can make interesting times..  As they have done in the past.  Now we have the pyramid, there's more chance of promotion for more ambitious clubs but at the same time a weighting in favour of the 9th placed team which provides some security.

 

 

Airdrie were full time and had to move away from it because of the finances. Going full time again could put their existence at risk. The same way that another season or 2 in league 1 and Falkirk will have to go part time. Hamilton if they go down will likely go part time in year 2 at most. Your point is that Airdrie cant be a decent sized club but not elect to go full time. Mine is that that cant fulfil their potential in the current system without putting its existence at risk. It was only recently Airdrie were reguarly at top of Championship and in Prem. Getting to cup finals etc. It only went downhill because we had to build a new stadium to comply with rules that were soon after abandoned. My point is we should be trying to help clubs like Airdrie, Falkirk, Dundee, Motherwell etc fulfil potential. The championship has reguarly had a fifth of the league as part time. Is that advancing Scottish football?

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1 minute ago, Diamond Scot said:

Airdrie were full time and had to move away from it because of the finances. Going full time again could put their existence at risk. The same way that another season or 2 in league 1 and Falkirk will have to go part time. Hamilton if they go down will likely go part time in year 2 at most. Your point is that Airdrie cant be a decent sized club but not elect to go full time. Mine is that that cant fulfil their potential in the current system without putting its existence at risk. It was only recently Airdrie were reguarly at top of Championship and in Prem. Getting to cup finals etc. It only went downhill because we had to build a new stadium to comply with rules that were soon after abandoned. My point is we should be trying to help clubs like Airdrie, Falkirk, Dundee, Motherwell etc fulfil potential. The championship has reguarly had a fifth of the league as part time. Is that advancing Scottish football?

The championship has regularly been one of the best leagues to watch in recent years!  Of course it's advancing Scottish football. 

The point you're making is get rid of part time teams and slush the money around fewer clubs.  Fine.  It appears Scotland can only support about 20 full time teams.  One big league does the job. 

Airdrie are not Motherwell, Dundee or even Falkirk. you get an average 1000 fans including away supporters in a good season.  That's why youre not full time material and Dunfermline and Falkirk are.

Thr argument is effectively asking to have teams like yours extinguished for the greater good. you're just happy as long as your team is just above the line which is highly debatable.  May have the stadium but that's it.  Apart from nostalgia why should we bother with any part time team that barely gets over the four figure mark?  That's the argument your making, not me.  I'm all for helping clubs.

I'm not against expanding the top league a bit maybe to 14/15/16, I simply think there should be a pyramid scheme that allows the rest to gain access on merit including teams like yours. 

We all want what's best for the game!  I can't see a closed shop working out. 

 

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1 hour ago, PapofGlencoe said:

The championship has regularly been one of the best leagues to watch in recent years!  Of course it's advancing Scottish football. 

The point you're making is get rid of part time teams and slush the money around fewer clubs.  Fine.  It appears Scotland can only support about 20 full time teams.  One big league does the job. 

Airdrie are not Motherwell, Dundee or even Falkirk. you get an average 1000 fans including away supporters in a good season.  That's why youre not full time material and Dunfermline and Falkirk are.

Thr argument is effectively asking to have teams like yours extinguished for the greater good. you're just happy as long as your team is just above the line which is highly debatable.  May have the stadium but that's it.  Apart from nostalgia why should we bother with any part time team that barely gets over the four figure mark?  That's the argument your making, not me.  I'm all for helping clubs.

I'm not against expanding the top league a bit maybe to 14/15/16, I simply think there should be a pyramid scheme that allows the rest to gain access on merit including teams like yours. 

We all want what's best for the game!  I can't see a closed shop working out. 

 

You are looking at things as they are today which is part of the problem with Scottish football. Airdrie historically are a good size club. They are a one town club and that town is similar in size to Motherwell and Falkirk. The current setup does nothing to encourage growth, quite the opposite in fact. But whether Airdrie were part of the setup or not is largely irrelevent. Id rather they competed in a part time league with other part time teams if thats the level that they chose to be at. 

Whats important in my opinion is providing an enviroment where things like % of money is spent on an academy, on the pitch, on a u23 team / reserve league.  Providing a platform for clubs to be able to sign players on longer contracts without fear of going bust if they have a bad season. 

You say the Championship is advancing Scottish football. Wheres the TV deal, wheres the revenue generation, wheres the youth products coming through? As I said, it pretty much always has 1 and reguarly 2 part time teams in it. Ive nothing against part time football but if we are talking about elite football, advancing Scotland national team or promoting the game then they dont have a role to play. Part time teams could play in a part time league. 

Several ppl within the game have voiced similar views with Gordon Strachan and Ann Budge doing so in the last few years. 

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16 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

You are looking at things as they are today which is part of the problem with Scottish football. Airdrie historically are a good size club. They are a one town club and that town is similar in size to Motherwell and Falkirk. The current setup does nothing to encourage growth, quite the opposite in fact. But whether Airdrie were part of the setup or not is largely irrelevent. Id rather they competed in a part time league with other part time teams if thats the level that they chose to be at. 

Whats important in my opinion is providing an enviroment where things like % of money is spent on an academy, on the pitch, on a u23 team / reserve league.  Providing a platform for clubs to be able to sign players on longer contracts without fear of going bust if they have a bad season. 

You say the Championship is advancing Scottish football. Wheres the TV deal, wheres the revenue generation, wheres the youth products coming through? As I said, it pretty much always has 1 and reguarly 2 part time teams in it. Ive nothing against part time football but if we are talking about elite football, advancing Scotland national team or promoting the game then they dont have a role to play. Part time teams could play in a part time league. 

Several ppl within the game have voiced similar views with Gordon Strachan and Ann Budge doing so in the last few years. 

 

Part time teams do play in a part time league - it's called League One and below in the pyramid.  It's just those that wish to progress can.  They haven't chosen to play at that level, it's simple reality for a club with a core supporter base of 850.  In same way that teams with a core support of 3500 and above appear to be the tipping point into full time. If you look at it, there has actually been growth in a lot of areas.  Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen, DUFC all have much higher crowds than ten years ago. 

I don't disagree with making the prem bigger and thus giving teams a bit of breathing space.  I also agree plastic pitches should be binned, in the top tier anyway.  I don't see what a closed shop brings though.  

You'd think we didn't have full time, professional clubs...we already have a full time premiership and a largely full time championship with most having youth teams in a country of 5m people.  So I don't see why this needs rebadged.  The cream of the young crop will be picked by the Prem teams anyway.  So they're already getting training and development.  I don't see what is added other than making the championship less interesting due to no relegation and no lower league play offs, Scottish football less accessible to ambitious lower league clubs, potentially jettisoning historic teams from entry like Airdrie, QoS, Dumbarton and straight jacketing finances to certain areas when every penny is already a prisoner.  

Not sure why TV are going to offer big bucks for a largely similar but less competitive product.  Why, because we'll call the second league a fancy name?  I don't think SKY are going to say you're now spending 20% revenue on young players so we're going to double our fee, do you?    

What do you mean youth product, I don't follow?  Go onto any Championship team's wiki and you can find players.  I've just found one in 1 min.  Lyall Cameron 20 years old, 27 apps, 8 goals.  In the prem, Kerr Smith of DUFC was 17 last year, gone to Villa for reportedly £2m.  That's just off the top of my head.  I've just looked at Ayr, most seem to be 23 year old bar Chris Maguire!  There's young players in every team I've glanced at.

 

Ann Budge was looking for ways to keep Hearts in the Premier league and it was largely about covid period survival more than anything else.  Strachan moans about everything including our gene pool.

 

 

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21 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

 

Part time teams do play in a part time league - it's called League One and below in the pyramid.  It's just those that wish to progress can.  They haven't chosen to play at that level, it's simple reality for a club with a core supporter base of 850.  In same way that teams with a core support of 3500 and above appear to be the tipping point into full time. If you look at it, there has actually been growth in a lot of areas.  Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen, DUFC all have much higher crowds than ten years ago. 

I don't disagree with making the prem bigger and thus giving teams a bit of breathing space.  I also agree plastic pitches should be binned, in the top tier anyway.  I don't see what a closed shop brings though.  

You'd think we didn't have full time, professional clubs...we already have a full time premiership and a largely full time championship with most having youth teams in a country of 5m people.  So I don't see why this needs rebadged.  The cream of the young crop will be picked by the Prem teams anyway.  So they're already getting training and development.  I don't see what is added other than making the championship less interesting due to no relegation and no lower league play offs, Scottish football less accessible to ambitious lower league clubs, potentially jettisoning historic teams from entry like Airdrie, QoS, Dumbarton and straight jacketing finances to certain areas when every penny is already a prisoner.  

Not sure why TV are going to offer big bucks for a largely similar but less competitive product.  Why, because we'll call the second league a fancy name?  I don't think SKY are going to say you're now spending 20% revenue on young players so we're going to double our fee, do you?    

What do you mean youth product, I don't follow?  Go onto any Championship team's wiki and you can find players.  I've just found one in 1 min.  Lyall Cameron 20 years old, 27 apps, 8 goals.  In the prem, Kerr Smith of DUFC was 17 last year, gone to Villa for reportedly £2m.  That's just off the top of my head.  I've just looked at Ayr, most seem to be 23 year old bar Chris Maguire!  There's young players in every team I've glanced at.

 

Ann Budge was looking for ways to keep Hearts in the Premier league and it was largely about covid period survival more than anything else.  Strachan moans about everything including our gene pool.

 

 

The Championship isnt a full time league. Its had at least one part time team in it for as long as I can remember.

The problem with plucking aspirations out of the air is that they need to be paid for. The reason teams have plastic pitches is they are revenue generating and require less upkeep. Any bigger Prem league would still need 4 OF games per season or Sky wouldnt pay as much. Thats why I dont think you can go above 14.

A closed shop would allow financial certainty. It would also allow the league to have minimum criteria. All the things I mentioned previously. No club is going to spend more than they have to on youth, or their pitch or anything else such as a good reserve league if none of the other clubs are doing the same. Perhaps a closed shop isnt the answer but instead set down all the requirements and any team wanting promotion needs to meet them. They would need to commit to it though and not go down the route like they did with stadiums where some clubs built white elephants and others didnt (like Falkirk and ICT) and then they just changed the rules.

Im not saying teams dont play young players (although the stats show that mins for Scottish players under 23 is at an all time low for Prem clubs). Im saying that for us to compete and progress we need to match other countries investment. I know first hand what happens at Scottish clubs currently and its miles behind English clubs in terms of youth development but also senior coaching. Use of technology, sports scientists etc. All that costs money and currently all but 2 Scottish clubs dont have it.

Sky wouldnt suddenly offer any more money but imo a more stable enviroment with greater emphasis on youth development and longer term planning would create a better product which in turn would attract more money.

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5 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

The Championship isnt a full time league. Its had at least one part time team in it for as long as I can remember.

The problem with plucking aspirations out of the air is that they need to be paid for. The reason teams have plastic pitches is they are revenue generating and require less upkeep. Any bigger Prem league would still need 4 OF games per season or Sky wouldnt pay as much. Thats why I dont think you can go above 14.

A closed shop would allow financial certainty. It would also allow the league to have minimum criteria. All the things I mentioned previously. No club is going to spend more than they have to on youth, or their pitch or anything else such as a good reserve league if none of the other clubs are doing the same. Perhaps a closed shop isnt the answer but instead set down all the requirements and any team wanting promotion needs to meet them. They would need to commit to it though and not go down the route like they did with stadiums where some clubs built white elephants and others didnt (like Falkirk and ICT) and then they just changed the rules.

Im not saying teams dont play young players (although the stats show that mins for Scottish players under 23 is at an all time low for Prem clubs). Im saying that for us to compete and progress we need to match other countries investment. I know first hand what happens at Scottish clubs currently and its miles behind English clubs in terms of youth development but also senior coaching. Use of technology, sports scientists etc. All that costs money and currently all but 2 Scottish clubs dont have it.

Sky wouldnt suddenly offer any more money but imo a more stable enviroment with greater emphasis on youth development and longer term planning would create a better product which in turn would attract more money.

I find it hard to believe the academy at Dundee united, Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen and Motherwell are "miles behind" to be quite honest.  Particularly Edinburgh teams and Aberdeen given their large increase in support in recent years.   Turnbull, hastie, ramsay, Smith, Ferguson, Hickey without even checking.  St Mirrens academy is apparently 5 star rated.

I'm not sure this is right, even Stirling Albion get the electronic stats nowadays I hear.

That said most fans would rather their senior team was good than who wins the u23 league.  And same goes for the broadcasters.

Anyway agree to disagree

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  • 2 weeks later...

I've seen a few communications from lower league teams over the last few days who have consulted with fans and stated their voting intentions based on those consultations. Bonnyrigg Rose and Albion Rovers intend to vote NO. I'm sure I read another one too, may have been Forfar but I could be wrong as my memory is crap. Anyway the other club also stated they would vote NO.

I think the vote is on June 5 or 6.

My club Stenhousemuir FC are consulting with supporters this week. Hopefully i'll be able to get along to the session.

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20 minutes ago, morrie21 said:

I've seen a few communications from lower league teams over the last few days who have consulted with fans and stated their voting intentions based on those consultations. Bonnyrigg Rose and Albion Rovers intend to vote NO. I'm sure I read another one too, may have been Forfar but I could be wrong as my memory is crap. Anyway the other club also stated they would vote NO.

I think the vote is on June 5 or 6.

My club Stenhousemuir FC are consulting with supporters this week. Hopefully i'll be able to get along to the session.

I haven't seen anyone say their intention is to vote yes yet. Hopefully this idea gets booted into touch

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6 hours ago, dandydunn said:

Whilst they’re at it, they should also talk about booting the OF & Hearts? out of the lower leagues too. 

They should, but as far as I know the agreement for that in the Lowland League still has one more year to go. Plenty of Lowland League clubs, including The Spartans, who are now in SPFL League Two, voted for the B teams inclusion. Absolute batshit levels of crazy.   

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On 5/28/2023 at 5:55 PM, morrie21 said:

They should, but as far as I know the agreement for that in the Lowland League still has one more year to go. Plenty of Lowland League clubs, including The Spartans, who are now in SPFL League Two, voted for the B teams inclusion. Absolute batshit levels of crazy.   

The SFA often use Spain and Croatia as examples of successful counties with B leagues but they conveniently leave out the Shite countries like Estonia and Bulgaria.

5 players from the Croatian squad have played B team football and one of those was in Germany. 

This idea looks like it will be pissed on by the majority of clubs now. Celtic and Rangers will want it but that's about it IMO

 

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3 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

The SFA often use Spain and Croatia as examples of successful counties with B leagues but they conveniently leave out the Shite countries like Estonia and Bulgaria.

5 players from the Croatian squad have played B team football and one of those was in Germany. 

This idea looks like it will be pissed on by the majority of clubs now. Celtic and Rangers will want it but that's about it IMO

 

Its clear that the idea of B teams isnt popular and abit of a non starter. For them to actually have any benefit then they would have to be able to get promoted up to the Championship (or a div below the main team) which isnt ever gonna happen.

I think we do need to find some kind of answer to the question of where do the youth play to get them ready for premier league football. This isnt just an OF issue as the stats have shown this year. Less minutes for U23s than ever before I believe and significantly less starts.

Previously teams have sent youth out on loan but the issue with that is the drop off in training facilities / coaching etc is massive between clubs like the OF and say Partick. Even Aberdeen to Peterhead will be like night and day.

I can see why having control of all your youth players is neccesary. Not sure how feasable it would be but entry into EPL2 or something like an Atlantic league for U23s might be an idea. Clubs could then decide to put teams in or not and would allow games at a good standard. Realistically you are probably only talking the OF, Edinburgh 2 and Aberdeen though.

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7 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

The SFA often use Spain and Croatia as examples of successful counties with B leagues but they conveniently leave out the Shite countries like Estonia and Bulgaria.

5 players from the Croatian squad have played B team football and one of those was in Germany. 

This idea looks like it will be pissed on by the majority of clubs now. Celtic and Rangers will want it but that's about it IMO

 

Stenny are hosting a fans forum at the ground tomorrow night on this. The board intend to present the full proposals as laid out by the SFA, before listening to the feedback from the fans. I shall go along, I think it will be an interesting evening.

Fan feedback will shape how the club casts its vote on June 5/6.

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3 hours ago, morrie21 said:

Stenny are hosting a fans forum at the ground tomorrow night on this. The board intend to present the full proposals as laid out by the SFA, before listening to the feedback from the fans. I shall go along, I think it will be an interesting evening.

Fan feedback will shape how the club casts its vote on June 5/6.

Let us know how it goes morrie21

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I attended the fans consultation on this issue at Stenhousmuir FC last night.

The meeting was chaired by club Chairman Iain McMenemy.

The document the SFA sent to the clubs was presented, without opinion or comment by the Chairman before the floor was opened up for opinions to be aired by those in attendance.

Everyone in the room expressed negative feelings towards the plans laid out and the Chairman said he would take that away to the board and they would provide an update on how they intend to vote in due course. If they align with the fanbase the Stenny vote on June 6 will be NO.

The issues with this proposal seems to be how rushed it has been. There are many glaring holes in it such as with the revenue promised to the non-B teams in the conference league, and how it would operate as the fifth tier of the SPFL although it would be run independently of the SPFL, so in effect it could change the rules within its setup after a few years.

As it stands it doesn't even have the 4 B teams it proposes as Aberdeen knocked back the invite to join and Queen's Park have done the same. If a 4th club isn't willing to enter a B team - and absorb the costs that it would entail - apparently they want to run with 9 teams in the league. So it seems to be coming apart at the seams already.

Hope those of you on here that are interested in this found this helpful.

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1 hour ago, morrie21 said:

I attended the fans consultation on this issue at Stenhousmuir FC last night.

The meeting was chaired by club Chairman Iain McMenemy.

The document the SFA sent to the clubs was presented, without opinion or comment by the Chairman before the floor was opened up for opinions to be aired by those in attendance.

Everyone in the room expressed negative feelings towards the plans laid out and the Chairman said he would take that away to the board and they would provide an update on how they intend to vote in due course. If they align with the fanbase the Stenny vote on June 6 will be NO.

The issues with this proposal seems to be how rushed it has been. There are many glaring holes in it such as with the revenue promised to the non-B teams in the conference league, and how it would operate as the fifth tier of the SPFL although it would be run independently of the SPFL, so in effect it could change the rules within its setup after a few years.

As it stands it doesn't even have the 4 B teams it proposes as Aberdeen knocked back the invite to join and Queen's Park have done the same. If a 4th club isn't willing to enter a B team - and absorb the costs that it would entail - apparently they want to run with 9 teams in the league. So it seems to be coming apart at the seams already.

Hope those of you on here that are interested in this found this helpful.

Good to hear 👍🏽

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57 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

This proposal has been withdrawn

 

Yes. Conference League proposal withdrawn from tomorrow's AGM agenda. SFA were clearly aware of the growing number of clubs that had seen straight through this, so instead of being mightily embarrassed they will work with their Glasgow based colleagues, ahem, and come up with another proposal to shoehorn B teams into the pyramid in due course.

Their statement says they "would like to carry out further consultation in respect of the player pathway to ensure the best development opportunities for players within the football pyramid." Free bit of advice for them - maybe consult with more than three or four clubs. Plenty forward thinking football people working at smaller clubs whose ideas for progressing football in Scotland should be heard. 

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I don't really have a dog in this race but I find the whole thing to be a fascinating subject.

Effectively Scottish football on a domestic and international stage (save for a few exceptions) has regressed over the past 3 or 4 decades. Realistically the competitive landscape of football has changed over this time as football becomes more widely played and resourced internationally across an increasing number of jurisdictions much larger than the population we have. There are also multiple economic and social factors both domestically and internationally across different generations that also contribute.  There is clearly this competitive angle to be considered, naturally trying to model off of similar sized countries that have continually punched above their weight. Considerable steps have been taken in recent years through youth development in my opinion through Performance Schools etc, but the adaptation of the club and league system will always prove to be a thorny subject. 

Conversely, we have a deep cultural heritage to football and the concept of community-based clubs, old traditional venues and generational stories of supporting your local club, attending the game with your family/father etc etc. However there is no way to restructure the leagues to prioritize competition without jeopardizing the financial viability of the clubs which maintain this cultural heritage. For example we have seen the cost of running B teams, costs of travel for part time clubs, financial outlay of ensuring facilities are up to scratch etc.

So really there is no one size fits all model. I do feel for the SFA when trying to push things like this because there will never be a consensus, and actually I would go as far as crediting them with pulling out a proposal which might only be backed by a maximum of 51% of clubs when there would be crippling side effects for the other 49%.

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