New 5th Tier potentially incoming...

[Johnnyshaker]

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/sport/football/highland-league/5661427/aberdeen-colts-and-highland-league-clubs-in-line-to-join-new-scottish-conference-league/

Proposal being voted on in June for Aberdeen joining Celtic, Rangers and Hearts B teams along with a few Highland and Lowland League teams to make a conference league (5th tier).

[RDFH64]

18 minutes ago, Johnnyshaker said:

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/sport/football/highland-league/5661427/aberdeen-colts-and-highland-league-clubs-in-line-to-join-new-scottish-conference-league/

Proposal being voted on in June for Aberdeen joining Celtic, Rangers and Hearts B teams along with a few Highland and Lowland League teams to make a conference league (5th tier).

More teams is just what we don't need, there's already too many teams in our professional/semi pro league system for the amount of good players, supporters & finance available.

[morrie21]

Hopefully enough L1&L2 clubs along with the LL and HL clubs can figure out that going along with this is bad news. It still needs to be voted in by the member clubs, enough of them will surely see sense. 

The blazers at the SFA are a disgrace for pressing for this basically at the request of a few Premiership clubs who fancy the B team model. If this goes ahead, they won't stop. A few more years and the next request will be up to be "voted upon."

This will see many fans of lower league clubs lost to Scottish fitba if it gets voted in. Dangerous times.

[dandydunn]

Disgraceful, it’s bad enough the OF and Hearts (I think) are playing lowland league and giving themselves an unfair advantage of youngsters playing that level of football when other clubs can’t, but for Aberdeen to be joining them has pissed me off. 
 

Bring back the reserve league and they can all play each other. 

[aaid]

Can the SFA do nothing other than copy the English setup?

[Haggis_trap]

19 hours ago, RDFH64 said:

More teams is just what we don't need, there's already too many teams in our professional/semi pro league system for the amount of good players, supporters & finance available.

Exactly...
For wider good of the game what we need is a 16/18 team premier league.
Not more lower league sides.

[Bzzzz]

On 4/28/2023 at 12:23 PM, aaid said:

Can the SFA do nothing other than copy the English setup?

That would involve thinking for one's self. 

[vanderark14]

Not a done deal for Aberdeen yet and I hope they don't. 

 

[SamP]

Saw this on FB earlier.  Don't know if it's already been posted here.

 

Scottish football faces the biggest threat to its sporting integrity for over a decade.

Led by Rangers and Celtic, clubs are set to vote on a proposal for a new tier five Conference League, which fill feature four B Teams.

If it passes, up to 200 clubs will effectively be relegated, with four teams having bought a position ahead of countless others that could earn that place on the pitch.

You might not have seen much about this, because some clubs are hoping that they can sneak it through at the SFA AGM in June - and once it is through it will be too late.

It is being presented as a foregone conclusion, but we truly believe that fans can stop this by coming together.

On Wednesday we will share details of the biggest joint campaign by Scottish football fans since 2012, with a month of action in May.

If you believe that sporting integrity should come first, share this message widely and like this page.

You may feel that your club is unlikely to be affected, but the Lowland League experience has shown that if we give an inch they will take a mile. What affects a team in a different division today may affect your club tomorrow.

Only by standing together will Scotland's football fans be able to stop this illogical, ill-thought-out and above all unjust idea.

It's time to send a clear message that sporting integrity must come first.

 

 

 

 

[vanderark14]

I don't get the angle or reasoning behind this move. 4 colts teams could mean the a 5th place team goes up or 5th bottom goes down. 

The old firm aren't going to be giving their youngsters a chance anytime soon anyway so who does this benefit? 

[dandydunn]

https://t.co/iDyLU5PSTk

[Debian]

It can go take a fuck to itself 

[Redz]

AFC doing the right thing 👏 

https://www.afc.co.uk/

Edited May 15, 2023 by Redz
Attaching link

[dandydunn]

36 minutes ago, Redz said:

AFC doing the right thing 👏 

https://www.afc.co.uk/

Was just about to post that. 
 

Wonderful decision. 

[RDFH64]

39 minutes ago, Redz said:

AFC doing the right thing 👏 

https://www.afc.co.uk/

Great decision, hopefully if it goes to a vote it gets a resounding no from most of Scotlands clubs.

[Diamond Scot]

Interesting to read the but about changing the loan rules to extend the strategic partner type relationship with another spfl club. Whilst B teams generally rub fans up the wrong way, im not sure this would be any better. 

Id be annoyed if Airdrie were having to play against a team who justb happened to have 5 Aberdeen players loaned to them. The natural result being that all the other Prem sides would do the same so Airdrie might have 5 Rangers players, Falkirk have 5 Celtic players etc.

Would be just like watching B teams anyway.

[morrie21]

Good statement from Aberdeen FC. Very clear and thoroughly covers all the issues they have carefully considered relating to this invitation.

[EddardStark]

The last thing we need is another layer to sit between the two current feeder leagues. I think we need 2 larger professional leagues although it will take a lot of convincing to change the current top flight league in terms of numbers. The challenge is how do you develop the younger players. I don't think the reserve league was a good way of doing that. 

[Diamond Scot]

40 minutes ago, EddardStark said:

The last thing we need is another layer to sit between the two current feeder leagues. I think we need 2 larger professional leagues although it will take a lot of convincing to change the current top flight league in terms of numbers. The challenge is how do you develop the younger players. I don't think the reserve league was a good way of doing that. 

I think something radical needs to be done for Scottish football to have a bright future. The status quo is only going to result in things getting worse. 30 years of 2 teams dominating the league will easily become 60. Meanwhile there is far too much instability in the league setup for any of the 2nd tier sides to grow or for 3rd tier sides to even operate on a 2 to 3 year business model.

As much as it goes against the grain id introduce a closed shop league model. Top league of 14 with a top 6 bottom 8 split. Minimum of 2 up 2 down and maybe a 3rd bottom, 3rd top play off.

Championship with X number of teams but no relegation. Entry into the setup would come with conditions. All clubs must be full time, must spend X amount of league / TV income on academy, must spend Y amount of money on pitch upkeep, whether that be graas or artificial but in an ideal world grass. All teams must run reserve / U23 team of which there will be a league.

Key to the setup would be closer financial distribution between top of championship and bottom of Prem meaning clubs wouldnt fall off a cliff financially on relegation. 

Clubs can then decide whether they want to join the setup or not. Thise that dont continue to play in lower leagues. Clubs like Airdrie, Falkirk etc I would imagine would join as the rewards would be there without huge risks.

Part of the reason clubs dont invest in youth as it puts them at a financial disadvantage over teams who dont.

[PapofGlencoe]

I have no idea why this is being tinkered with again so soon after the pyramid has been established.

We already have effectively a fifth tier..it's called the highland league and the lowlands league with winners getting a crack at promotion to the senior set up.

The play offs have just been and judging by the crowds and the scorelines an entertaining success.

The league split of the prem is generally considered entertaining for those clubs battling for it.

We've seen quite a few teams use the opportunity to come through the pyramid and stagnating clubs be demoted.

To me the whole recent change has been a success.  Unbelievable folks think this side of the pyramid is the issue.

We're awful keen to do our league down at times.  Maybe it just me but I've seen a lot of joy over the season, great crowds and good games (not with my team it has to be said 😂) . 

[PapofGlencoe]

2 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

I think something radical needs to be done for Scottish football to have a bright future. The status quo is only going to result in things getting worse. 30 years of 2 teams dominating the league will easily become 60. Meanwhile there is far too much instability in the league setup for any of the 2nd tier sides to grow or for 3rd tier sides to even operate on a 2 to 3 year business model.

As much as it goes against the grain id introduce a closed shop league model. Top league of 14 with a top 6 bottom 8 split. Minimum of 2 up 2 down and maybe a 3rd bottom, 3rd top play off.

Championship with X number of teams but no relegation. Entry into the setup would come with conditions. All clubs must be full time, must spend X amount of league / TV income on academy, must spend Y amount of money on pitch upkeep, whether that be graas or artificial but in an ideal world grass. All teams must run reserve / U23 team of which there will be a league.

Key to the setup would be closer financial distribution between top of championship and bottom of Prem meaning clubs wouldnt fall off a cliff financially on relegation. 

Clubs can then decide whether they want to join the setup or not. Thise that dont continue to play in lower leagues. Clubs like Airdrie, Falkirk etc I would imagine would join as the rewards would be there without huge risks.

Part of the reason clubs dont invest in youth as it puts them at a financial disadvantage over teams who dont.

Sounds like a good idea if your objective is to create more youth football.

But I don't think that's the objective of clubs or what fans want to see.  They want to see their senior team win football matches, all else follows.

I don't see how the above helps stop the two teams dominating.  Teams in prem getting less money.

If anything it'll just have Airdrie or similar as probably the worst team sitting bottom with no incentive to do anything about it.. a la East Stirling years ago.  What we have now is an opportunity for clubs to move up or down based on their ambition.  Seems fair and competitive to me.

 

[RDFH64]

1 hour ago, PapofGlencoe said:

I have no idea why this is being tinkered with again so soon after the pyramid has been established.

We already have effectively a fifth tier..it's called the highland league and the lowlands league with winners getting a crack at promotion to the senior set up.

The play offs have just been and judging by the crowds and the scorelines an entertaining success.

The league split of the prem is generally considered entertaining for those clubs battling for it.

We've seen quite a few teams use the opportunity to come through the pyramid and stagnating clubs be demoted.

To me the whole recent change has been a success.  Unbelievable folks think this side of the pyramid is the issue.

We're awful keen to do our league down at times.  Maybe it just me but I've seen a lot of joy over the season, great crowds and good games (not with my team it has to be said 😂) . 

Being driven by the usual teams for self benefit, they can hoover up the best young prospects with the promise of games in their B teams as a stepping stone to their main teams.

Maybe they still think they’ll get an invite to the utopia of the English league and still have teams playing up here who would then be allowed to gain promotion to the SPL.

[RDFH64]

1 hour ago, PapofGlencoe said:

Sounds like a good idea if your objective is to create more youth football.

But I don't think that's the objective of clubs or what fans want to see.  They want to see their senior team win football matches, all else follows.

I don't see how the above helps stop the two teams dominating.  Teams in prem getting less money.

If anything it'll just have Airdrie or similar as probably the worst team sitting bottom with no incentive to do anything about it.. a la East Stirling years ago.  What we have now is an opportunity for clubs to move up or down based on their ambition.  Seems fair and competitive to me.

 

👍

[Diamond Scot]

1 hour ago, PapofGlencoe said:

Sounds like a good idea if your objective is to create more youth football.

But I don't think that's the objective of clubs or what fans want to see.  They want to see their senior team win football matches, all else follows.

I don't see how the above helps stop the two teams dominating.  Teams in prem getting less money.

If anything it'll just have Airdrie or similar as probably the worst team sitting bottom with no incentive to do anything about it.. a la East Stirling years ago.  What we have now is an opportunity for clubs to move up or down based on their ambition.  Seems fair and competitive to me.

 

I dont disagree with some of that and it would need to be tried to see if thats what would happen. Imo we need to try something though.

For me, teams cant budget over 2/3 years currently as the financial drop off for relegation is too high and with only 1 guarenteed to come back up you are putting the club at risk. Therefore clubs like Dundee Utd cant risk tying players down to longer contracts which has the knock on with regards to both team building and also sell on fee if they are good. Just look at what Hearts have been able to do with the Euro money this year. Bought Shankland, tied others down to longer contracts, in theory their team next year will be stronger than this. Thats what financial certainty allows. This wont have Hearts winning the league but allows them to build year on year.

Regarding Airdrie, we cant afford to commit to full time football as its very hard to get out of league 1 currently, therefore we cant build as a club. Falkirk spent about 200k per year developing youth I believe for many years but suffered because no other team in the league was doing it so in effect had 200k less of a budget. If all teams had to do it then it would be a level playing field.

Also, teams in the prem wouldnt neccesarily get less money. Currently its split 42 ways (not equally). This would be about 26 ways.

[PapofGlencoe]

48 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

I dont disagree with some of that and it would need to be tried to see if thats what would happen. Imo we need to try something though.

For me, teams cant budget over 2/3 years currently as the financial drop off for relegation is too high and with only 1 guarenteed to come back up you are putting the club at risk. Therefore clubs like Dundee Utd cant risk tying players down to longer contracts which has the knock on with regards to both team building and also sell on fee if they are good. Just look at what Hearts have been able to do with the Euro money this year. Bought Shankland, tied others down to longer contracts, in theory their team next year will be stronger than this. Thats what financial certainty allows. This wont have Hearts winning the league but allows them to build year on year.

Regarding Airdrie, we cant afford to commit to full time football as its very hard to get out of league 1 currently, therefore we cant build as a club. Falkirk spent about 200k per year developing youth I believe for many years but suffered because no other team in the league was doing it so in effect had 200k less of a budget. If all teams had to do it then it would be a level playing field.

Also, teams in the prem wouldnt neccesarily get less money. Currently its split 42 ways (not equally). This would be about 26 ways.

Aye all want the same thing but I don't agree.

I think we've just had an overhaul that's starting to see fruits. I would suggest Hearts are a good example of what has been achieved.  Hearts were in the championship a blink of an eye ago. Reaping their ambition, good on them. Dundee utd were in championship and Europe too within a few years, have invested and gone the other way.  Such is football.

Airdrie have as good a chance as any club in Europe at promotion via the playoffs currently. Nearly half the teams in the league have a chance at it.  I don't see why they should get drafted to a closed shop because it's too hard rather than on merit. They may even do it this year!  also, how can they and other similar clubs not plan? they've been much of a muchness since its reincarnation..they're always going to be a yo yo team between champ and league one with an emphasis on league one.  That's something which can be planned.  I honestly don't think it would be a given Airdrie would even feature as one of these elite clubs your proposing.  Definitely on the cusp.  How would you and your community feel if you were a Dumbarton and punted from senior football with no ability to gain membership?  What message does that send?

On the other end of the scale, Falkirk who have actually had a five year plan, invested in the first team and remained professional and still cant get promoted haha!  That's been due to signing poor players with no bottle, not the academy.  They have by miles the biggest budget in the league (until this year)..been purely missing bottle at the requisite time.

I would maybe make the top league bigger so there is more of a middle ground but I wouldn't close off the pyramid in any way.  It's been a success from my pov.