Elliot Anderson.

[borojock]

8 hours ago, Big Ramy 1314 said:

With complete respect mate, he won't be "changing his mind"...He will be "not good enough" therefore will try his luck with Scotland who he turned his back on in the first place. We are not second fiddle to any cunt. There are Scottish boys born and bred that would bleed for the dark blue. How about picking them instead of this part time cunt !! Just my view mate, nothing personal..  🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿👍

Look i appreciate my thoughts on this topic aren't going to be similar to everyone else & I truly do welcome the opposing thoughts and respect everyones opinion however different they are to mine

On the whole Scottish Boys born and bred that would bleed for the dark blue two points i would say 

1/ You don't qualify for tournaments based on passion & commitment but quality. My ultimate wish for Scotland is we regularly qualify for tournaments and for us to do that we need the best players not the most scottishness players. If we were to qualify for major tournaments but it meant we had some Anderson and Gunn's in the starting 11 i would take that. As Vokes and Robson-Kanu knocked in the winners for Wales in the quarters of the euros i doubt the wales fans were too concerned at that point if they were truly bleeding for the team. I just want us to be decent again and to achieve that we need the best players we can. If you went through the squads at the last WC there are a lot of teams that had squads with a lot of players born outside their county eg Morocco 

2/ Scottish born and bred players arent necessarily as committed and as passionate as we think how many have refused to play or not turn up for many reasons. Big Dunc, Kris Boyd, Garry O'Connor, Barry Ferguson was regularly unavaliable for many periods, Ryan Fraser etc. During the laste 90's and early 00's we had loads of players who would regularly not turn up 

[Marky]

3 hours ago, borojock said:

Look i appreciate my thoughts on this topic aren't going to be similar to everyone else & I truly do welcome the opposing thoughts and respect everyones opinion however different they are to mine

On the whole Scottish Boys born and bred that would bleed for the dark blue two points i would say 

1/ You don't qualify for tournaments based on passion & commitment but quality. My ultimate wish for Scotland is we regularly qualify for tournaments and for us to do that we need the best players not the most scottishness players. If we were to qualify for major tournaments but it meant we had some Anderson and Gunn's in the starting 11 i would take that. As Vokes and Robson-Kanu knocked in the winners for Wales in the quarters of the euros i doubt the wales fans were too concerned at that point if they were truly bleeding for the team. I just want us to be decent again and to achieve that we need the best players we can. If you went through the squads at the last WC there are a lot of teams that had squads with a lot of players born outside their county eg Morocco 

2/ Scottish born and bred players arent necessarily as committed and as passionate as we think how many have refused to play or not turn up for many reasons. Big Dunc, Kris Boyd, Garry O'Connor, Barry Ferguson was regularly unavaliable for many periods, Ryan Fraser etc. During the laste 90's and early 00's we had loads of players who would regularly not turn up 

Think you’re making out that folk on here are against English born players playing for Scotland. That’s not the case. Over the years there’s been plenty committed English born players such as Alexander, Hutchinson, McTominay etc etc. No one is complaining about them.

What folk are (quite rightly) getting the hump about is wee chancers holding out for a “better” gig whilst not wanting to give a flat no to Scotland. Fuck that shit. 

Edited March 19, 2023 by Marky

[Big Ramy 1314]

43 minutes ago, Marky said:

Think you’re making out that folk on here are against English born players playing for Scotland. That’s not the case. Over the years there’s been plenty committed English born players such as Alexander, Hutchinson, McTominay etc etc. No one is complaining about them.

What folk are (quite rightly) getting the hump about is wee chancers holding out for a “better” gig whilst not wanting to give a flat no to Scotland. Fuck that shit. 

Exactly !! 👍

[borojock]

44 minutes ago, Marky said:

Think you’re making out that folk on here are against English born players playing for Scotland. That’s not the case. Over the years there’s been plenty committed English born players such as Alexander, Hutchinson, McTominay etc etc. No one is complaining about them.

What folk are (quite rightly) getting the hump about is wee chancers holding out for a “better” gig whilst not wanting to give a flat no to Scotland. Fuck that shit. 

Genuinely not and if come across that way apologies. 

The point i was trying to make and appreciate this isnt the popular way of thinking is I'm quite flexible to the cases of the Gunn and Anderson of the world if it makes our starting 11 stronger and gives us a better chance of qualifying for tournaments.

[Big Ramy 1314]

23 minutes ago, borojock said:

Genuinely not and if come across that way apologies. 

The point i was trying to make and appreciate this isnt the popular way of thinking is I'm quite flexible to the cases of the Gunn and Anderson of the world if it makes our starting 11 stronger and gives us a better chance of qualifying for tournaments.

I will give you an example. Anthony Ralston !! Was not good enough for Celtic, was not good enough for Scotland.. This boy worked his socks off, gives everything he has for the jersey, for his Country, for Scotland.. He knows what it means to play for Scotland, he gets it, he wants it!! Elliot Anderson doesn't, Scotland is his back up plan, his second choice !! I would take the Anthony Ralstons of the world any day of the week over the Elliot Andersons. It is not always about technical ability, and talent, it's about blood and guts, commitment, bravery, and wanting to walk through a brick fucking wall for your country and giving everything you have because you have a desire to be there.. That is the difference !! 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[borojock]

12 minutes ago, Big Ramy 1314 said:

I will give you an example. Anthony Ralston !! Was not good enough for Celtic, was not good enough for Scotland.. This boy worked his socks off, gives everything he has for the jersey, for his Country, for Scotland.. He knows what it means to play for Scotland, he gets it, he wants it!! Elliot Anderson doesn't, Scotland is his back up plan, his second choice !! I would take the Anthony Ralstons of the world any day of the week over the Elliot Andersons. It is not always about technical ability, and talent, it's about blood and guts, commitment, bravery, and wanting to walk through a brick fucking wall for your country and giving everything you have because you have a desire to be there.. That is the difference !! 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

I honestly get the point you make and completely understand it - one of my first posts on this forum many many many years ago was something along the lines of - i would rather watch a team of guys that bleed for the shirt and lose rather than a bunch of English rejects who use us as a second choice and win.

However after watching us play in 1 tournament in 25 years my feelings have changed compared what they used to be. I would rather watch us compete at a higher level with the best team even if that meant there were Anderson's and Gunn's of this world in it. 

I get a lot of people will disagree with that and say thats not the spirit of international football but i think many countries have been going down that route for a long time and being principled may not put us in the strongest position 

For me give me Tino Livramento over Ralston any day of the week 

But totally respect and appreciate your thoughts on it 

[Big Ramy 1314]

16 minutes ago, borojock said:

I honestly get the point you make and completely understand it - one of my first posts on this forum many many many years ago was something along the lines of - i would rather watch a team of guys that bleed for the shirt and lose rather than a bunch of English rejects who use us as a second choice and win.

However after watching us play in 1 tournament in 25 years my feelings have changed compared what they used to be. I would rather watch us compete at a higher level with the best team even if that meant there were Anderson's and Gunn's of this world in it. 

I get a lot of people will disagree with that and say thats not the spirit of international football but i think many countries have been going down that route for a long time and being principled may not put us in the strongest position 

For me give me Tino Livramento over Ralston any day of the week 

But totally respect and appreciate your thoughts on it 

Totally understand your thoughts pal, complete respect. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🙂🙂👍👍

[thesaint]

2 hours ago, Marky said:

Think you’re making out that folk on here are against English born players playing for Scotland. That’s not the case. Over the years there’s been plenty committed English born players such as Alexander, Hutchinson, McTominay etc etc. No one is complaining about them.

What folk are (quite rightly) getting the hump about is wee chancers holding out for a “better” gig whilst not wanting to give a flat no to Scotland. Fuck that shit. 

Exactly. How anybody could disagree  with that point is beyond me. 👍👍👍👍

[Tartan Chris]

I really liked that "goal" he scored v Forest. Showed real strength at the back post to rise above Aurier and it was a very well placed header.

He's an interesting prospect and Howe clearly rates him so rather than Newcastle signing xxx number of players in summer think bigger issue is he gets sacked in next 12 months and then Anderson falls down the pecking order.

[Tartan Chris]

Just reading the last two pages....kid is only 20 so to me it's a bit different to someone in late 20s suddenly deciding they want to play for Scotland e.g Phil Bardsley, Matt Ritchie etc. 

I was incredibly cynical when Che Adams suddenly declared his availability a few months before the euros (he was 24) but since then he's had very few call offs so clearly loves being part of things.

Not sure where Anderson's head is at as he would've been in the squad but Wales had plenty of duels down the years who've taken ages to commit but once in the set up they love it and probably wonder why they took so long to decide. It took them 12 months to convince Hal Robson Kanu to decide to join up for example reading John Toshack's autobiography. 

He then gave them one of the great Welsh sporting moments with that goal v Belgium so no one cared after that he'd play for England youth groups as Anderson has.

[ceudmilefailte]

He probably won't turn out to be anything special so unless we are back to being totally shit this thread is pretty pointless. 

Think there's a lot of bad agents about advising kids with their heads in the clouds. 

[Big Ramy 1314]

1 hour ago, ceudmilefailte said:

He probably won't turn out to be anything special so unless we are back to being totally shit this thread is pretty pointless. 

Think there's a lot of bad agents about advising kids with their heads in the clouds. 

Very good point on "Agents". Bastards only care about ££££

[daviebee]

9 hours ago, Marky said:

Think you’re making out that folk on here are against English born players playing for Scotland. That’s not the case. Over the years there’s been plenty committed English born players such as Alexander, Hutchinson, McTominay etc etc. No one is complaining about them.

What folk are (quite rightly) getting the hump about is wee chancers holding out for a “better” gig whilst not wanting to give a flat no to Scotland. Fuck that shit. 

This x 1,000,000

[scotlad]

15 hours ago, borojock said:

Look i appreciate my thoughts on this topic aren't going to be similar to everyone else & I truly do welcome the opposing thoughts and respect everyones opinion however different they are to mine

On the whole Scottish Boys born and bred that would bleed for the dark blue two points i would say 

1/ You don't qualify for tournaments based on passion & commitment but quality. My ultimate wish for Scotland is we regularly qualify for tournaments and for us to do that we need the best players not the most scottishness players. If we were to qualify for major tournaments but it meant we had some Anderson and Gunn's in the starting 11 i would take that. As Vokes and Robson-Kanu knocked in the winners for Wales in the quarters of the euros i doubt the wales fans were too concerned at that point if they were truly bleeding for the team. I just want us to be decent again and to achieve that we need the best players we can. If you went through the squads at the last WC there are a lot of teams that had squads with a lot of players born outside their county eg Morocco 

2/ Scottish born and bred players arent necessarily as committed and as passionate as we think how many have refused to play or not turn up for many reasons. Big Dunc, Kris Boyd, Garry O'Connor, Barry Ferguson was regularly unavaliable for many periods, Ryan Fraser etc. During the laste 90's and early 00's we had loads of players who would regularly not turn up 

 

10 hours ago, borojock said:

I honestly get the point you make and completely understand it - one of my first posts on this forum many many many years ago was something along the lines of - i would rather watch a team of guys that bleed for the shirt and lose rather than a bunch of English rejects who use us as a second choice and win.

However after watching us play in 1 tournament in 25 years my feelings have changed compared what they used to be. I would rather watch us compete at a higher level with the best team even if that meant there were Anderson's and Gunn's of this world in it. 

I get a lot of people will disagree with that and say thats not the spirit of international football but i think many countries have been going down that route for a long time and being principled may not put us in the strongest position 

For me give me Tino Livramento over Ralston any day of the week 

But totally respect and appreciate your thoughts on it 

Two good posts mate.  Anyone charged with managing the national team will pick the best players he possibly can, regardless of who they played youth internationals for, or if they'd turned us down before, or if they were once on the fence about playing for us, because his job is to get the team qualified for tournaments. You'd think we were the only international team in this position. 

The real elephant in the room is why the quality and quantity of players produced in Scotland has tailed off to the point where these, if you like, eligible players are often markedly better than those we've produced ourselves.

We are getting a bit better in that respect - the situation isn't as bad as it was 10 or 20 years ago - but we've still 6 players from the English second tier in our current squad and our highest goalscorer this season in any of Europe's top leagues has scored only 5 goals in that league so far - and he is an "eligible"!

[Diamond Scot]

Several references on this thread and previous about these players only selecting Scotland because it boosts their CV and gets them a better contract.

The EPL has moved way way passed that. The exception being the England team where there are decent bonuses for getting capped and doing well at tournaments but getting caps with other "smaller" nations will mean next to nothing for an EPL player.

If Anderson breaks through at Newcastle and is performing / playing for a team in Europe and challenging for top 4 then his contract will be substantial. Adding playing for Scotland to that is going to be pocket money if anything at all.

Playing international football can put you in the shop window but it also involves going away, training and playing during the only parts of the season where players get a break. Non international players will reguarly get several days off during an international break where they will fly out to Dubai etc. So if a player wasnt commited then theres not a chance in hell he would finally commit. 

I suspect like Hickey he is just trying to concentrate on doing what he can to break into the team rather than meet up and be "coached" by Scott Gemmil. Ultimately if he breaks through at Newcastle nobody will care that he missed some U21 games the same way it wont be held against Hickey.

Yes, theres the added issue of England but all the boy is doing is saying he wants time to consider things. If anything its a sensible grown up informed thing to do.

[theabsentee]

1 hour ago, Diamond Scot said:

Several references on this thread and previous about these players only selecting Scotland because it boosts their CV and gets them a better contract.

The EPL has moved way way passed that. The exception being the England team where there are decent bonuses for getting capped and doing well at tournaments but getting caps with other "smaller" nations will mean next to nothing for an EPL player.

If Anderson breaks through at Newcastle and is performing / playing for a team in Europe and challenging for top 4 then his contract will be substantial. Adding playing for Scotland to that is going to be pocket money if anything at all.

Playing international football can put you in the shop window but it also involves going away, training and playing during the only parts of the season where players get a break. Non international players will reguarly get several days off during an international break where they will fly out to Dubai etc. So if a player wasnt commited then theres not a chance in hell he would finally commit. 

I suspect like Hickey he is just trying to concentrate on doing what he can to break into the team rather than meet up and be "coached" by Scott Gemmil. Ultimately if he breaks through at Newcastle nobody will care that he missed some U21 games the same way it wont be held against Hickey.

Yes, theres the added issue of England but all the boy is doing is saying he wants time to consider things. If anything its a sensible grown up informed thing to do 

Excellent post 👌  In Anderson case just let the lad play & establish himself as a EPL level player before he chooses his international future. I would be very happy if he stuck with us but it'll more than likely be England if they want him. 

   Fans are living in the very distant past if they think that in selecting a grandparent qualifying top level player Scotland is doing them some kind of favour & giving their career a huge boost.  This only works with lower level players who need what little limelight playing for us gives you. 

[theabsentee]

3 hours ago, scotlad said:

 

Two good posts mate.  Anyone charged with managing the national team will pick the best players he possibly can, regardless of who they played youth internationals for, or if they'd turned us down before, or if they were once on the fence about playing for us, because his job is to get the team qualified for tournaments. You'd think we were the only international team in this position. 

The real elephant in the room is why the quality and quantity of players produced in Scotland has tailed off to the point where these, if you like, eligible players are often markedly better than those we've produced ourselves.

We are getting a bit better in that respect - the situation isn't as bad as it was 10 or 20 years ago - but we've still 6 players from the English second tier in our current squad and our highest goalscorer this season in any of Europe's top leagues has scored only 5 goals in that league so far - and he is an "eligible"!

3 hours ago, scotlad said:

 

Two good posts mate.  Anyone charged with managing the national team will pick the best players he possibly can, regardless of who they played youth internationals for, or if they'd turned us down before, or if they were once on the fence about playing for us, because his job is to get the team qualified for tournaments. You'd think we were the only international team in this position. 

The real elephant in the room is why the quality and quantity of players produced in Scotland has tailed off to the point where these, if you like, eligible players are often markedly better than those we've produced ourselves.

We are getting a bit better in that respect - the situation isn't as bad as it was 10 or 20 years ago - but we've still 6 players from the English second tier in our current squad and our highest goalscorer this season in any of Europe's top leagues has scored only 5 goals in that league so far - and he is an "eligible"!

 

Great posts borojock & scotlad👌 

[vanderark14]

15 hours ago, Tartan Chris said:

Just reading the last two pages....kid is only 20 so to me it's a bit different to someone in late 20s suddenly deciding they want to play for Scotland e.g Phil Bardsley, Matt Ritchie etc. 

I was incredibly cynical when Che Adams suddenly declared his availability a few months before the euros (he was 24) but since then he's had very few call offs so clearly loves being part of things.

Not sure where Anderson's head is at as he would've been in the squad but Wales had plenty of duels down the years who've taken ages to commit but once in the set up they love it and probably wonder why they took so long to decide. It took them 12 months to convince Hal Robson Kanu to decide to join up for example reading John Toshack's autobiography. 

He then gave them one of the great Welsh sporting moments with that goal v Belgium so no one cared after that he'd play for England youth groups as Anderson has.

I think Adams proves players can do a job and can be committed if they change their mind at a later age. I doubt anyone gave a shit about Adams waiting till age 24 to declare for Scotland when he banged in that beautiful finish against Denmark.

 

 

[vanderark14]

19 hours ago, borojock said:

I honestly get the point you make and completely understand it - one of my first posts on this forum many many many years ago was something along the lines of - i would rather watch a team of guys that bleed for the shirt and lose rather than a bunch of English rejects who use us as a second choice and win.

However after watching us play in 1 tournament in 25 years my feelings have changed compared what they used to be. I would rather watch us compete at a higher level with the best team even if that meant there were Anderson's and Gunn's of this world in it. 

I get a lot of people will disagree with that and say thats not the spirit of international football but i think many countries have been going down that route for a long time and being principled may not put us in the strongest position 

For me give me Tino Livramento over Ralston any day of the week 

But totally respect and appreciate your thoughts on it 

I was the same, years ago I'd be angry at being 2nd choice but now I'm more relaxed about it. If the player wants to play for scotland and gives his all, he will get my backing

[wanderer]

Most the players who are only doing it for their own goals are usually weeded out after 2-3 caps, and soon forgotten about, but the one's who do commit and make the effort, any previous comments are usually forgotten pretty fast like Adams, and I doubt anyone would grudge James Morrison a single one of his caps, especially when he was the first name on the team sheet for a while....

Phil Bardsley has the most tedious link to Scotland of any player we have ever been able to get through this rule, and everyone was welcoming of him from the start, and were even calling for a recall in the build up to the Euros.

Matt Ritchie I think it was simply a case that he come to the conclusion that international football was not for him (great player with the ball at his feet, but as slow as a week in the jail, which was not cut out for international football).

Being honest, I give it 15-18 months before there is stories that Anderson will be back looking for a Scotland call up..... then its down to Clarke what he thinks he should do.

[csinclair]

It's a tough one because the lad is still only young and will no doubt have family, friends, agents, coaches all telling him different things about who he should play for.
I hope he does eventually play for us as he seems to be highly rated by the coaches at Newcastle.

[Tartan Chris]

He plays on the left of front three....so he isn't getting a sniff with England anytime soon whatever his agent is advising given likes of Foden, Grealish, Saka and Rashford can or already player there.

Perhaps he's just wanting a call up for their under 21s and then will properly decide.

McTominay was another who didn't quite commit straight away...37 caps later. 

[daviebee]

5 hours ago, wanderer said:

Most the players who are only doing it for their own goals are usually weeded out after 2-3 caps, and soon forgotten about, but the one's who do commit and make the effort, any previous comments are usually forgotten pretty fast like Adams, and I doubt anyone would grudge James Morrison a single one of his caps, especially when he was the first name on the team sheet for a while....

Phil Bardsley has the most tedious link to Scotland of any player we have ever been able to get through this rule, and everyone was welcoming of him from the start, and were even calling for a recall in the build up to the Euros.

Matt Ritchie I think it was simply a case that he come to the conclusion that international football was not for him (great player with the ball at his feet, but as slow as a week in the jail, which was not cut out for international football).

Being honest, I give it 15-18 months before there is stories that Anderson will be back looking for a Scotland call up..... then its down to Clarke what he thinks he should do.

You reckon?  My opinion is the same now as it was then, i.e. he shouldn't have been within a light year of a Scotland shirt.

[ProudScot]

7 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

I was the same, years ago I'd be angry at being 2nd choice but now I'm more relaxed about it. If the player wants to play for scotland and gives his all, he will get my backing

Yeah totally think the same. Some of Gunns antics have been annoying though but in reality if he plays great and saves us in a couple games we will all be happy to have him. 

[thesaint]

37 minutes ago, daviebee said:

You reckon?  My opinion is the same now as it was then, i.e. he shouldn't have been within a light year of a Scotland shirt.

👍👍👍👍