Ben Doak

[Caledonian Craig]

10 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

Said it before, im not one for sticking in the flavour of the month as I think its a good thing to have a settled squad and make people earn call ups.

However every now and then (happening more often these days) a player comes along that its so obvious will become a full international that there is little benefit in them playing in the U18 / 21s.

I believe Doak falls into that category in the same way Gilmour and Hickey did and to a lesser extent Patterson.

If we were super strong in forward areas then maybe keep him waiting but its likely that he would take the place of somebody like Brown, Fraser or Turnbull so its not like the strength of the 1st team is going to be affected.

Fully agree.

No way should he be in a junior squad when getting games for Liverpool at senior level and doing pretty well. His development is underway and integrating him into the first team squad is what he needs.

[Tartan blood]

36 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Fully agree.

No way should he be in a junior squad when getting games for Liverpool at senior level and doing pretty well. His development is underway and integrating him into the first team squad is what he needs.

He's been training with World class players every day. VVD is one of the best defenders in the world. The level he needs to play at in training every day will be miles higher than what he'd get with the u21s. I know Hickey got stick for not turning up for the u21s, but he was playing in Serie A and that level was beneath him. I feel like Doak is already at the same position.

[Caledonian Craig]

12 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

He's been training with World class players every day. VVD is one of the best defenders in the world. The level he needs to play at in training every day will be miles higher than what he'd get with the u21s. I know Hickey got stick for not turning up for the u21s, but he was playing in Serie A and that level was beneath him. I feel like Doak is already at the same position.

Of course.

Scotland tend to be way too cautious with talented youngsters in my opinion. Look at Wales they capped Gareth Bale when he was still in his mid-teens, England played Owen who was a teenager and there are stacks of other such examples. 

Lets see now - which one is playing at highest level and far greater potential - Jacob Brown or Ben Doak. No brainer.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Caledonian Craig

[Tartan blood]

59 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Of course.

Scotland tend to be way too cautious with talented youngsters in my opinion. Look at Wales they capped Gareth Bale when he was still in his mid-teens, England played Owen who was a teenager and there are stacks of other such examples. 

Lets see now - which one is playing at highest level and far greater potential - Jacob Brown or Ben Doak. No brainer.

Based on how little Clarke has used Brown, I'd probably say he is the most expendable attacking player in the squad. I still feel like I can barely picture Brown playing football. 

Since 2000, we've played 15 teenagers. (More than I thought)

Tierney, O.Burke, D.Wilson, G.O'Conner, McFadden, D.Fletcher, Ramsay, D.Marshall, Hanley, Patterson, Gilmour, Hickey, Forrest, G.Caldwell, A Robertson.

The majority of those names went on to have very good careers, or are showing good early signs. It'll do Doak no harm at all.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Tartan blood

[theabsentee]

4 hours ago, Tartan blood said:

Based on how little Clarke has used Brown, I'd probably say he is the most expendable attacking player in the squad. I still feel like I can barely picture Brown playing football. 

Since 2000, we've played 15 teenagers. (More than I thought)

Tierney, O.Burke, D.Wilson, G.O'Conner, McFadden, D.Fletcher, Ramsay, D.Marshall, Hanley, Patterson, Gilmour, Hickey, Forrest, G.Caldwell, A Robertson.

The majority of those names went on to have very good careers, or are showing good early signs. It'll do Doak no harm at all.

Well said, I'll be extremely disappointed if he is expected to turn up for under 21's while getting minutes for the Liverpool first team. 

  Get him in training with the first team & use him off the bench if we need a dangerous attacking impact player. 

[Scots_Wha_Hae]

11 hours ago, Tartan blood said:

Based on how little Clarke has used Brown, I'd probably say he is the most expendable attacking player in the squad. I still feel like I can barely picture Brown playing football. 

Since 2000, we've played 15 teenagers. (More than I thought)

Tierney, O.Burke, D.Wilson, G.O'Conner, McFadden, D.Fletcher, Ramsay, D.Marshall, Hanley, Patterson, Gilmour, Hickey, Forrest, G.Caldwell, A Robertson.

The majority of those names went on to have very good careers, or are showing good early signs. It'll do Doak no harm at all.

15 in 22 years isn’t great, but 4 in the last 2 years is pretty decent. It’s a shame 3 of them are right backs though🙄

[todd]

On 1/18/2023 at 10:18 AM, Malcolm said:

ok, I’m not totally against the idea, but we need to be careful about who we omit at his expense.  In my view it should be hard to get in to the squad but equally if you are in the squad you shouldn’t be dropped Willy billy for the next big thing.

we do have an alarming number of our top players not getting a regular game at the moment.

 

We certainly can't afford to drop Willy Billy, he's been outstanding for us. 😁

[ProudScot]

8 hours ago, theabsentee said:

Well said, I'll be extremely disappointed if he is expected to turn up for under 21's while getting minutes for the Liverpool first team. 

  Get him in training with the first team & use him off the bench if we need a dangerous attacking impact player. 

Gemmill likely to keep him on the under 21s bench while Jim McScroogle who has 100 games for St Mirren under his belt and is 23 but has earned his stripes needs another run out before his transfer to Forest Green Rovers on a free 

[Scots_Wha_Hae]

9 hours ago, ProudScot said:

Gemmill likely to keep him on the under 21s bench while Jim McScroogle who has 100 games for St Mirren under his belt and is 23 but has earned his stripes needs another run out before his transfer to Forest Green Rovers on a free 

I'd laugh if that wasn't a) almost entirely accurate and b) something that Gemmill has actually confirmed he does 

[ghorne67]

Doak did start for the last u/21 game to be fair. I sat and watched it because it was the stongest u/21 team I can remember us putting out, full of all these youngsters at the big clubs getting hyped.

Absolutely woeful. Pumped by a bunch of apprentice fishermen. 

[csinclair]

20 hours ago, ghorne67 said:

Doak did start for the last u/21 game to be fair. I sat and watched it because it was the stongest u/21 team I can remember us putting out, full of all these youngsters at the big clubs getting hyped.

Absolutely woeful. Pumped by a bunch of apprentice fishermen. 

First half was decent but we just couldn’t put the ball in the back of the net after the first goal . Not sure what Gemmill said at half time but we totally fell apart.

Edited January 21, 2023 by csinclair

[broraboy]

S.Clarke has to select him for the Full Squad and get him away from Gemmill, he’ll learn f**k all in the U21’s with that clown in charge! 
 

 

[scotlad]

On 1/21/2023 at 12:45 PM, csinclair said:

First half was decent but we just couldn’t put the ball in the back of the net after the first goal . Not sure what Gemmill said at half time but we totally fell apart.

My recollection of that game is that Scotland were the better team bar a twenty minute spell where Iceland managed to score twice (their second was a penalty too, IIRC).

[Squirrelhumper]

4 hours ago, scotlad said:

My recollection of that game is that Scotland were the better team bar a twenty minute spell where Iceland managed to score twice (their second was a penalty too, IIRC).

Same.

Doak was a standout.

[daviebee]

Has Darren Fletcher's son seen the light?

[breeks_mctavish]

8 minutes ago, daviebee said:

Has Darren Fletcher's son seen the light?

No way. He’s made his bed

[ProudScot]

11 hours ago, breeks_mctavish said:

No way. He’s made his bed

At 15 😂

[stocky]

12 hours ago, daviebee said:

Has Darren Fletcher's son seen the light?

He's a twin is he no🤔

Making it even more intriguing.

is his brother shite and not getting picked?

or have we got the shite one and the other is sticking with them?

 

 

[daviebee]

1 hour ago, stocky said:

He's a twin is he no🤔

Making it even more intriguing.

is his brother shite and not getting picked?

or have we got the shite one and the other is sticking with them?

 

 

He's the one that got picked by England last year. Both appear to be highly rated with both in the Man City academy. Maybe for once the SFA are on the ball here?

[breeks_mctavish]

4 hours ago, ProudScot said:

At 15 😂

Just a wee joke 😉

[slasher]

Does anyone know if he recovered okay from his recent head injury?

It looked like a nasty yin.

[ghorne67]

Pulled out the 21s squad with a concussion. 

He did make the top 50 young players in the world yesterday though, nae pressure! 

 

https://www.goal.com/en/lists/nxgn-2023-50-best-wonderkids-football/blta8167eeb11aa5cdf