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Indyref 2 (2)


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41 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Certainly an increase on your super hero, wonderman, can do no wrong, sun shines out of his arse, get him back in Salmond days.

Let’s see how sturgeon gets on in a referendum, oh that’s right, she hasn’t the savvy to even get us a referendum 

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19 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Let’s see how sturgeon gets on in a referendum, oh that’s right, she hasn’t the savvy to even get us a referendum 

If that is your mentality as an Independence supporter you should really not be allowed a vote

It has been stated often that at the 2019 General Election;

Votes for parties of Independence 1,270,502

Votes for Unionist Parties 1,484,740

2021 Holyrood Election

Votes for parties of Independence 1,359,611

Votes for Unionist parties 1,327,696 (approx)

Stop blaming Nicola Sturgeon or the SNP for not having the savvy to get us a referendum when the polls are constantly 50/50

Blame the cunty electorate and the SNP relying on Westminster to campaign for Independence

Edited by Ally Bongo
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10 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

If that is your mentality as an Independence supporter you should really not be allowed a vote

It has been stated often that at the 2019 General Election;

Votes for parties of Independence 1,270,502

Votes for Unionist Parties 1,484,740

2021 Holyrood Election

Votes for parties of Independence 1,359,611

Votes for Unionist parties 1,327,696 (approx)

Stop blaming Nicola Sturgeon or the SNP for not having the savvy to get us a referendum when the polls are constantly 50/50

Blame the cunty electorate and the SNP relying on Westminster to campaign for Independence

Or the poor leadership that hasn’t increased the polling more, it’s their job to persuade the electorate that independence would be the better option to the status quo

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So the Labour party, given the choice to be 'progressive' and pro trans and defender of devolution, and stick it to the Tories on a point of principle, almost all decide to be anti-trans, anti-devolution and letting the Tories do their worst. 

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24 minutes ago, exile said:

So the Labour party, given the choice to be 'progressive' and pro trans and defender of devolution, and stick it to the Tories on a point of principle, almost all decide to be anti-trans, anti-devolution and letting the Tories do their worst. 

TBF, credit where it’s due, it’s not all of them.   Mind you, has anyone seen Anas Sarwar?  He’s must have gotten the keys to Ruth Davidson’s old bunker. 

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2 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Let’s see how sturgeon gets on in a referendum, oh that’s right, she hasn’t the savvy to even get us a referendum 

And neither did Salmond. He had the benefit of the pliable Cameron who agrred to allow one. And with a blank canvas Salmond failed.

You are clueless if you think thete is any way of getting a referendum without permission from Westminster.

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5 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

And neither did Salmond. He had the benefit of the pliable Cameron who agrred to allow one. And with a blank canvas Salmond failed.

You are clueless if you think thete is any way of getting a referendum without permission from Westminster.

Oh “but this,but that”  salmond took the snp from a fringe group to the main party(that party currently being destroyed from within) and took us to within a whisker of independence. 

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7 hours ago, exile said:

So the Labour party, given the choice to be 'progressive' and pro trans and defender of devolution, and stick it to the Tories on a point of principle, almost all decide to be anti-trans, anti-devolution and letting the Tories do their worst. 


Not agreeing with GRR does not make you anti trans.  I would not describe myself as anti trans, just that they are clearly biologically the sex they were born.  Happy that they live their lives as they want.

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The more I think of this the more I think Westminster have fucked up, I wonder if their arrogance is going against them.

Other Nations have done similar to Scotland with this GRR issue and there has been no fall out, they are seen as progressive whilst Westminster are putting a stop to it for no justifiable reason. Its muscle flexing and an attack on the scottish parliament and devlution, it will be lapped up by the staunch unionists and people like Malcolm who think this law will some how mean perverts will be wandering the streets exposing their cocks to children.

@hampden_loon2878 I started to share some of your concerns about this having an adverse affect on gaining independence but I am not so sure now after Westminster's reaction. Even the spectator was light in its reaction to GRR Bill. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Malcolm said:


Not agreeing with GRR does not make you anti trans.  I would not describe myself as anti trans, just that they are clearly biologically the sex they were born.  Happy that they live their lives as they want.

That comes across like saying, "I wouldn't describe myself as homophobic. Clearly marriage is between a man and a woman. I'm happy for gay people to do whatever they want in private, but they can't be married."

I also said it was anti-devolution - I imagine people know what I mean - though strictly you could say that a section 35 is part of devolution and is therefore devolution in action, not anti-devolution.

I imagine many politicians down south would say, as they vote to override the Scottish Parliament, "I'm not anti-Scottish. I am happy that they live their lives as they want. As long as we can over-ride their wishes whenever we like."

Edited by exile
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2 minutes ago, exile said:

I also said it was anti-devolution - I imagine people know what I mean - though strictly you could say that a section 35 is part of devolution and is therefore devolution in action, not anti-devolution.

I imagine many politicians down south would say, as they vote to override the Scottish Parliament, "I'm not anti-Scottish. I am happy that they live their lives as they want. As long as we can over-ride their wishes whenever we like."


ah but, in this case the are agreeing with the people of Scotland, the vast majority of whom oppose the GRR.  It’s only the loony left fringe groups such as the greens that have a disproportionate influence due to having Nicola over a barrel that want this.

 

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7 minutes ago, Malcolm said:


ah but, in this case the are agreeing with the people of Scotland, the vast majority of whom oppose the GRR.  It’s only the loony left fringe groups such as the greens that have a disproportionate influence due to having Nicola over a barrel that want this.

 

You miss my point. I am talking about any Scottish legislation that is over-ruled, or any action that we would consider anti-Scottish. The number of people down south who say "I've nothing against the Scots. But... [I won't let them enact what their political representatives want]"

It doesn't need to be something political. It's like saying "I'm not anti-Scottish, but I don't think they should have their own football team."

Edited by exile
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1 minute ago, exile said:

Anyway, I wonder what proportion of trans people think the Westminster action is anti-trans.


probably a large amount as many of them think of themselves as biologically different to what they are.  You can’t change reality. Yes, you can live your life as you want to live, but you are born the way you are.

 

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2 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Oh “but this,but that”  salmond took the snp from a fringe group to the main party(that party currently being destroyed from within) and took us to within a whisker of independence. 

And lost

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2 hours ago, Malcolm said:


Not agreeing with GRR does not make you anti trans.  I would not describe myself as anti trans, just that they are clearly biologically the sex they were born.  Happy that they live their lives as they want.

Just as long as none come anywhere near you. 

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2 minutes ago, exile said:

You miss my point. I am talking about any Scottish legislation that is over-ruled, or any action that we would consider anti-Scottish. The number of people down south who say "I've nothing against the Scots. But... [I won't let them enact what their political representatives want]"


in principle, I’m not enormously impressed with Westminster blocking Scottish legislation, but aside from the fact that i disagree with the bill, I can see why this would have implications on a Uk basis.

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12 minutes ago, Malcolm said:


in principle, I’m not enormously impressed with Westminster blocking Scottish legislation, but aside from the fact that i disagree with the bill, I can see why this would have implications on a Uk basis.

Many many things Scotland does could have implications for the UK. Raising or lowering taxes or increasing benefits for example, that could make Scotland more competitive or more attractive relative to the rest of the UK. To allow that is the point of devolution, to over-rule it seems anti devolution.

Edited by exile
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27 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

The more I think of this the more I think Westminster have fucked up, I wonder if their arrogance is going against them.

Other Nations have done similar to Scotland with this GRR issue and there has been no fall out, they are seen as progressive whilst Westminster are putting a stop to it for no justifiable reason. Its muscle flexing and an attack on the scottish parliament and devlution, it will be lapped up by the staunch unionists and people like Malcolm who think this law will some how mean perverts will be wandering the streets exposing their cocks to children.

@hampden_loon2878 I started to share some of your concerns about this having an adverse affect on gaining independence but I am not so sure now after Westminster's reaction. Even the spectator was light in its reaction to GRR Bill. 

 

 

Had it been a policy the general public were behind then yes however I honestly don’t believe the casual voter agrees with the policy. I would love to be proven wrong but the longer this drags on, the more the general public are starting to engage and from my experience they are against the policie. The only way that I see this having a positive bearing on independence is if some labour msp’s end up so disillusioned with WM they come out and support indy which is extremely unlikely 

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