Indyref 2 (2)

[hampden_loon2878]

1 hour ago, Malcolm said:

you spout a lot of rubbish.  Constitution is only one policy item.  What about those who might want independence but despise every other snp policy.

for whatever reason, some find that impossible to understand, they believe the left own independence,, that is just rubbish

 

[hampden_loon2878]

1 hour ago, TDYER63 said:

Alex Salmond had the luxury of running a government after what seemed like an eternity of Labour, it was a refreshing change and helped increase support for independence.

Nicola Sturgeon has had to deal with the aftermath of the referendum . She is getting pulled in every direction on independence whilst at the same time trying to run the country on a coalition government .

Usually a government gets one half of the media on their side. She gets nothing whilst the opposition gets everything . I don’t think people realise how difficult it is. 
If pro union parties get voted in here they will be given every help to help stamp out independence for good and any of their cock ups and crap policies swept right under the carpet. People really should be careful what they wish for. 

oh poor sturgeon, the aftermath of the referendum? what with everysingle indy supporter backing the party.? that aftermath?

[Ally Bongo]

I'm a member of the SNP

Not a Wings or ALBA fanboy

Yesterday i came to my own conclusions that under Nicola Sturgeon's strategy we will never get Independence in my lifetime

This has nothing to do with policies

[TDYER63]

29 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

oh poor sturgeon, the aftermath of the referendum? what with everysingle indy supporter backing the party.? that aftermath?

Who said anything about poor Sturgeon? I am making an obvious point that she is battling various entities over a period of time. Every single indy supporter may be backing the party then criticising from the sidelines. If you are really that unhappy just dont vote SNP. No one is forcing you or anyone else to.

I dont have any personal feelings about NS or AS, it makes it a bit easier to see the wood from the trees. Independence will only be won when people feel sufficiently comfortable that we are able to run our country proficiently. If people dont think the SNP are that party then vote for someone else. But just be prepared for the  consequences from an independence perspective . There is absolutely no real alternative to the SNP at this time. 
Maybe getting unionists in is the kick up the arse the SNP need to get independence on track. Problem is the damage may be already done by then. 

[mcguffin]

3 hours ago, Orraloon said:

4 hours ago, aaid said:

Here you go

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/wintour-and-watt/2011/may/25/alexsalmond-queen

😂

He has always liked a wee wind up. 

  

😀
Okay, it's an old article, but it's interesting what can happen when a Scottish polititican can link the cause of Scottish Independence to a mildly-provocative statement about the monarchy/union-of-crowns. The media just can't help themselves reporting on it--even the highbrowed Guardian went for it hook, line and sinker!!!

Jumping forward 11 years, and we've got talk radio, social media, podcasts and the like amplifying 'mainstream journalists'.  So the more I think about Alex Salmond's cheeky delay-the-delivery-of-the-stone-of-destiny-to-westminster' idea, the more it appeals to me. I hope someone in the Scottish Government looks into the feasibility/legality of such a gesture. Even an "of-course-we'll-lend-it-to-you-but-your-going-to-have-to-respectfully-ask-us-first" statement from Bute House/Holyrood might be enough to get the LBC phone lines ringing. 😀

[Caledonian Craig]

People are overlooking pertinent fact of how impossible it is to get an independence referendum. There has been one in 300+ years and that only happened because Westminster agreed to it.

Lots of people whinging about lack of movement towards independence but with absolutely no suggestion on how tgey would or could make that happen.

[Freeedom]

1) the SNP have been in government for 16 years and people continually vote for them. Despite my criticisms they have more than proven they can govern the country, that is not an issue at all at this point.

2) The very most basic thing the SNP could have been doing is arguing the case for independence and building support amongst the general population. They have done bugger all on this front and take for granted the fact that if you support independence you should vote for them. They are a party comfortable in government, happy with the status quo.

3) The only way to make them move on the issue is to STOP voting for them or vote for another independence party instead. As a voter my only leverage is my vote and I will not vote for a party that has perpetually failed to push us closer to independence, it's not good enough.

4) once support has been pushed above that magical 60% on a consistent basis then we go ahead and hold a referendum regardless of what Westminster does or does not have to say about it. If we have the backing of the people no fascist law is going to stop us.

[mcguffin]

1 hour ago, Ally Bongo said:

Yesterday i came to my own conclusions that under Nicola Sturgeon's strategy we will never get Independence in my lifetime

This has nothing to do with policies

😞
I have to admit, I've had similar thoughts recently.

I hope a future generation of Scots will be given the chance again to take their destiny into their own hands. And for that, I respect the politicians of all parties who are currently fighting for Independence against stacked odds. If someone, anyone, can pull the the Independence rabbit out of the hat, then hats off to them.

 

Edited January 15, 2023 by mcguffin

[Freeedom]

5 minutes ago, mcguffin said:

😞
I have to admit, I've had similar thoughts recently.

I hope a future generation of Scots will be given the chance again to take their destiny into their own hands. And for that, I respect the politicians of all parties who are currently fighting for Independence against stacked odds. If someone, anyone, can pull the the Independence rabbit out of the hat, then hats off to them.

 

That's because the SNP haven't given us anything to be positive about, there is no fighting spirit about them. It's just a case of "ah well our hands are tied... there's nothing we can do about it".

We need a party that is going to lead the independence movement, not suck the life out of all its supporters.

[mccaughey85]

2 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

People are overlooking pertinent fact of how impossible it is to get an independence referendum. There has been one in 300+ years and that only happened because Westminster agreed to it.

Lots of people whinging about lack of movement towards independence but with absolutely no suggestion on how tgey would or could make that happen.

Ppl in here are just looking for someone or something to blame instead of taking responsibility themselves. Its an embarrassing thread tbh. Unless the scottish ppl show a stronger desire for independence then its not going to happen. The Snp and indy partys have done all they can, if the scottish ppl cant put in an x in a box then we dont deserve independence. 

[hampden_loon2878]

14 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

Ppl in here are just looking for someone or something to blame instead of taking responsibility themselves. Its an embarrassing thread tbh. Unless the scottish ppl show a stronger desire for independence then its not going to happen. The Snp and indy partys have done all they can, if the scottish ppl cant put in an x in a box then we dont deserve independence. 

no they havent done all they can do, they have chased after policies that are devisive, Some in the party tried to burry the best politician the party had under false allegations and lies,, why must you add? you have the likes of pete wishart wanting to be speaker of the house of commons,, there needs to be a massive clear out, fast!! take a step back to go forward. Independence is not going to happen under sturgeon, not a hope so best start the rebuild ASAP

[Malcolm]

1 hour ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

no they havent done all they can do, they have chased after policies that are devisive, Some in the party tried to burry the best politician the party had under false allegations and lies,, why must you add? you have the likes of pete wishart wanting to be speaker of the house of commons,, there needs to be a massive clear out, fast!! take a step back to go forward. Independence is not going to happen under sturgeon, not a hope so best start the rebuild ASAP

totally agree.  The best chance the snp have is to move to the centre ground, ditch the greens and the loony left policies and put in place a new leadership. 

[scotlad]

22 hours ago, mcguffin said:

It's an idea aaid, but I'm not sure if it would create the same interest in the international media as a symbolic  delaying delivery of the stone of destiny to Westminster?  Can't imagine Nick Ferrari building a show around it on LBC for example "Alex Salmond has resigned from the Privy Council over some Scottish issue or other, the lines are open!"

But at least it's an idea and I'm all for that. 👍



 

There's no chance of them doing that.  They should, or insist big ears comes to Scotland to be crowned separately instead, but they won't.

21 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

Alex Salmond had the luxury of running a government after what seemed like an eternity of Labour, it was a refreshing change and helped increase support for independence.

Nicola Sturgeon has had to deal with the aftermath of the referendum . She is getting pulled in every direction on independence whilst at the same time trying to run the country on a coalition government .

Usually a government gets one half of the media on their side. She gets nothing whilst the opposition gets everything . I don’t think people realise how difficult it is. 
If pro union parties get voted in here they will be given every help to help stamp out independence for good and any of their cock ups and crap policies swept right under the carpet. People really should be careful what they wish for. 

I think your last paragraph is spot on.  As frustrating as the SNP currently are the British establishment still fear them.  Not as much as they used to, perhaps, but for as long as they remain a popular force in Scotland they still pose a semblance of threat to the UK. Vote out the SNP in favour of a unionist party, however, and they will make damn sure independence is more difficult to achieve than it ever has been. They'll not want to sail so close to the wind again.

[PapofGlencoe]

Off the back of chat about potential alcohol labelling ban, become apparent a big switch away from the SNP to Labour amongst my group of friends.  or at least hoping for someone else to vote for.

Alba is not the vehicle but the SNP hierarchy would do well to decouple the cause from the SNP before it's too late.  we need to be lowering barriers to indy support.  A Together for Yes movement or National Convention.  

[Malcolm]

 

This is what the SNP and the greens are pursuing… it must not be allowed to happen.
 

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/10063073/rape-monster-targeted-demands-move-womens-prison/

[aaid]

13 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

 

This is what the SNP and the greens are pursuing… it must not be allowed to happen.
 

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/10063073/rape-monster-targeted-demands-move-womens-prison/

I must have missed the bill being given Royal Assent and being implemented.

[vanderark14]

56 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

 

This is what the SNP and the greens are pursuing… it must not be allowed to happen.
 

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/10063073/rape-monster-targeted-demands-move-womens-prison/

Depends what type of women prisoner he is put with..............some of the women prisoners would likely kick his head in🤣

[mccaughey85]

5 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

no they havent done all they can do, they have chased after policies that are devisive, Some in the party tried to burry the best politician the party had under false allegations and lies,, why must you add? you have the likes of pete wishart wanting to be speaker of the house of commons,, there needs to be a massive clear out, fast!! take a step back to go forward. Independence is not going to happen under sturgeon, not a hope so best start the rebuild ASAP

 The scottish ppl have repeatedly been given the nice option. Most countries never had the luxury of greetin about policies and other trivial shit they dont like. Most other countries were forced to fight and suffer for their independence. If the scottish ppl cant tick a box then theres no point in you bitching about minor bullshit. The scottish ppl need to pony up or its game over and so far its looking grim. No amount of blaming sturgeon or the snp will change the fact the scottish ppl are not strong enough to take their country back. 

Ppl need a reality check. If we cant get over 55 percent consistently and we are not willing to rise up through civil disobedience, war etc then forget about independence and move on. 

Take responsibility. Personally i accept that i am unwilling to fight a war and i am unwilling to spend my life in jail so expecting the snp or sturgeon to do it for me is not fair. They are not a paramilitary and they are not there to kick off or physically fight on my behalf. If they apply for a referendum and get rejected then they have to look at other peaceful measures or ways of gaining a referendum. Its not ideal but if a countrys ppl wont make any meaningful effort to gain independence then its game over and scapegoating the snp and sturgeon to make yourself feel better is pathetic.

[hampden_loon2878]

gender reform blocked by the uk government, what will cause the biggest carry on,? that or them blocking a referendum?

[aaid]

12 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

gender reform blocked by the uk government, what will cause the biggest carry on,? that or them blocking a referendum?

The difference here is that this should outrage both those who support independence and those who support devolution.

[Squirrelhumper]

12 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

gender reform blocked by the uk government, what will cause the biggest carry on,? that or them blocking a referendum?

Probably the former. 

[Squirrelhumper]

Just now, aaid said:

The difference here is that this should outrage both those who support independence and those who support devolution.

I think you're over estimsting the public support for this bill. 

[aaid]

2 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

I think you're over estimsting the public support for this bill. 

Regardless of the bill, it’s the precedent here that the UKG will just strike down any piece of legislation it doesn’t like.

It’ll be interesting to see how they defend this.

Edited January 16, 2023 by aaid

[Ally Bongo]

Maybe now she will consider dissolving Holyrood

[AlfieMoon]

Big opportunity for the SNP to make political capital out of this regardless of whether people supported the bill or not - and let’s face it, the vast majority of people are not particularly invested or impacted.  
 

But now we have WM wielding their power the Scottish Parliament. If this is where it starts, where does it stop?