ParisInAKilt Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 9 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said: People who truly want independence will never vote for a unionist party. And if they do then they are not truly committed to independence. they need a party to get them there, is that the SNP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcguffin Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 1 hour ago, aaid said: Alex Salmond could make a start by resigning from the Privy Council It's an idea aaid, but I'm not sure if it would create the same interest in the international media as a symbolic delaying delivery of the stone of destiny to Westminster? Can't imagine Nick Ferrari building a show around it on LBC for example "Alex Salmond has resigned from the Privy Council over some Scottish issue or other, the lines are open!" But at least it's an idea and I'm all for that. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 5 minutes ago, Orraloon said: Why do you say he is no longer a monarchist? What evidence is there to show that he ever was a monarchist? I would be interested to read about what is in the public domain about his views on the monarchy. Here you go https://www.theguardian.com/politics/wintour-and-watt/2011/may/25/alexsalmond-queen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 12 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: is that the SNP? It is 100% compared to Labour. Labour have already categorically stated where they stand on Scottish independence. No referendum on their watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 1 minute ago, Caledonian Craig said: It is 100% compared to Labour. Labour have already categorically stated where they stand on Scottish independence. No referendum on their watch. Of course but you’ve not answered the question, unless you’re expecting independence voters to just keep voting for the snp. When I said people might just vote labour eventually, that’s because they’ve gotten fed up been led up the garden path by snp asking for mandate after mandate, not because they think voting labour will get them Indy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 2 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: Of course but you’ve not answered the question, unless you’re expecting independence voters to just keep voting for the snp. When I said people might just vote labour eventually, that’s because they’ve gotten fed up been led up the garden path by snp asking for mandate after mandate, not because they think voting labour will get them Indy Sorry I do not buy that. If you want something you do what is best to acheive that goal no matter how fed up you get. It is akin to saying when world war two was going Germany's way people did not give up and decide to fight for Germany. Of course not. Sounds to me like you are advocating SNP announcing a referendum without permission. That would acheive nothing as even a Yes vote would not see Scotland recognized as an independent country in the eyes of the world. Same as declaring independence right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 4 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said: Sorry I do not buy that. If you want something you do what is best to acheive that goal no matter how fed up you get. It is akin to saying when world war two was going Germany's way people did not give up and decide to fight for Germany. Of course not. Sounds to me like you are advocating SNP announcing a referendum without permission. That would acheive nothing as even a Yes vote would not see Scotland recognized as an independent country in the eyes of the world. Same as declaring independence right now. World war 2? 😂😂😂 ffs alright then. Without permission? From who? I’m not advocating anything in particular at this stage, only pointing out that some voters might get fed up voting snp without any progress on independence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 32 minutes ago, aaid said: Here you go https://www.theguardian.com/politics/wintour-and-watt/2011/may/25/alexsalmond-queen 😂 He has always liked a wee wind up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 6 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: World war 2? 😂😂😂 ffs alright then. Without permission? From who? I’m not advocating anything in particular at this stage, only pointing out that some voters might get fed up voting snp without any progress on independence. Look anyone with a working brain cell could tell you that if you want independence you vote accordingly for SNP or if you so wish Alba or Scottish Greens. If you vote elsewhere then your commitment to independence is not there. What I don't get is what you think the SNP can do that they haven't already done to hasten independence? Ans, though I certainly do not like it, the permission has to come from Westminster such is this dictatorial union we are chained in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hampden_loon2878 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 Folk are beginning to lose faith in the snp, especially those more engaged in politics,, I am done voting snp while sturgeon is in change although I am still a member. She and others still in the party stitched up salmond so he wouldn’t come back, had his character not been assassinated this is when he would have came back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 1 minute ago, hampden_loon2878 said: Folk are beginning to lose faith in the snp, especially those more engaged in politics,, I am done voting snp while sturgeon is in change although I am still a member. She and others still in the party stitched up salmond so he wouldn’t come back, had his character not been assassinated this is when he would have came back Yesterday's man doing his best to appear relevant. We've seen this happen with Sillars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 2 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said: What I don't get is what you think the SNP can do that they haven't already done to hasten independence? Ans, though I certainly do not like it, the permission has to come from Westminster such is this dictatorial union we are chained in. And that’s why people will eventually get bored or frustrated etc and vote elsewhere or just not vote at all. Especially when it’s vote for us to get independence election after election Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 1 minute ago, ParisInAKilt said: And that’s why people will eventually get bored or frustrated etc and vote elsewhere or just not vote at all. Especially when it’s vote for us to get independence election after election Nothing can be done about that by any of the pro-independence parties. Just as pro-unionists parties cannot stop disenchanted Scots voting for a pro-independence party for the first time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hampden_loon2878 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 7 minutes ago, aaid said: Yesterday's man doing his best to appear relevant. We've seen this happen with Sillars. You would love that, however he has a purpose to serve, you are so much of a fan boy/girl of sturgeon that you wouldn’t manage to see it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 7 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said: Nothing can be done about that by any of the pro-independence parties. Just as pro-unionists parties cannot stop disenchanted Scots voting for a pro-independence party for the first time. So just wait for the Tories to allow another referendum? Solid plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 4 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: So just wait for the Tories to allow another referendum? Solid plan. What's your alternative then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 (edited) 9 minutes ago, aaid said: What's your alternative then? Do what Homer suggested in the Simpsons episode when he went back to college, hide under some coats and hope it all works out. Edited January 15 by ParisInAKilt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 3 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said: Maybe the SNP need to decide what they actually want, a party to mange a devolved Scotland or a party that can achieve independence. TBF they've been trying to do both for over 15 years now, a pretty difficult/ impossible juggling act and the cracks are starting to appear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 11 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: Do what Homer suggested in the Simpsons episode when he went back to college, hide under some coats and hope it all works out. I'm all for alternative ideas, the reality is that there is no ideal option and the alternatives which have been suggested are at various levels of stupidity and the level of support for independence in the country is nowhere near big enough to justify taking them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 1 minute ago, Toepoke said: TBF they've been trying to do both for over 15 years now, a pretty difficult/ impossible juggling act and the cracks are starting to appear. Maybe Nicola Sturgeon is fighting a losing game here. All governments get to the point when they are tired and running out of new ideas. Maybe it needs a period of opposition for those on the Independence side to realise what arseholes they've been in their actions. People should be very careful what they wish for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 1 hour ago, Caledonian Craig said: People who truly want independence will never vote for a unionist party. And if they do then they are not truly committed to independence. We have heard Starmer's stance on Scottish independence - he says GTF. you spout a lot of rubbish. Constitution is only one policy item. What about those who might want independence but despise every other snp policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDYER63 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 3 minutes ago, aaid said: Maybe Nicola Sturgeon is fighting a losing game here. All governments get to the point when they are tired and running out of new ideas. Maybe it needs a period of opposition for those on the Independence side to realise what arseholes they've been in their actions. People should be very careful what they wish for. Alex Salmond had the luxury of running a government after what seemed like an eternity of Labour, it was a refreshing change and helped increase support for independence. Nicola Sturgeon has had to deal with the aftermath of the referendum . She is getting pulled in every direction on independence whilst at the same time trying to run the country on a coalition government . Usually a government gets one half of the media on their side. She gets nothing whilst the opposition gets everything . I don’t think people realise how difficult it is. If pro union parties get voted in here they will be given every help to help stamp out independence for good and any of their cock ups and crap policies swept right under the carpet. People really should be careful what they wish for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 16 minutes ago, TDYER63 said: If pro union parties get voted in here they will be given every help to help stamp out independence for good and any of their cock ups and crap policies swept right under the carpet. People really should be careful what they wish for. And the "domestic" agenda with Brexit and then COVID haven't exactly been easy and straightforwards either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 (edited) Malcolm If a person truly wants independence you vote for a pro-independence party that best suits your needs. In any case your very best chance of ridding yourself of the SNP and their policies is for independence to come about. Thereafter the political landscape will change greatly. No independence and you have a status quo and you are stuck with SNP policies. Edited January 15 by Caledonian Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hampden_loon2878 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 1 hour ago, aaid said: Maybe Nicola Sturgeon is fighting a losing game here. All governments get to the point when they are tired and running out of new ideas. Maybe it needs a period of opposition for those on the Independence side to realise what arseholes they've been in their actions. People should be very careful what they wish for. shes never had any ideas, thats the problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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