Indyref 2 (2)

[Freeedom]

1 hour ago, Orraloon said:

What makes you say that?

NS didn't have the powers to turn Scotland into a "neoliberal tax haven" even if she had wanted to. 

Before the 2014 referendum the SNP frequently cited Norway as a model with its sovereign wealth fund and massive oil and gas reserves. After brexit Ireland became the model most frequently cited due to still being a member of the EU and it's economic growth. 

[weekevie04]

17 hours ago, Dave78 said:

Aye, just over 5m now.

Scotland falling behind and atrophying. 

 

We're just a small part of GB(it's England to most of the world).

Joanna Lamont's Scots are incapable of making big decisions etc is probably true during Indyref.

And now we're going to be stuck with Tory/Labour rule as the shit sticks to the SNP.

People simply don't care enough and it'll be managed to decline where we'll end up looking like some shit hole in the north of England.

I don't even mention my nationality abroad now, and if someone mentions it I'll talk about the national football team doing well. Imagine telling someone from Estonia, Iceland, Lithuania  or Ireland ''we are a proud country,'' - we are an autonomous part of GB who has a football team and a few other sports teams.

People don't care enough or are too comfy. Even Brexit couldn't get enough lazy cunts off their arse to demand independence.

[aaid]

9 minutes ago, Freeedom said:

Before the 2014 referendum the SNP frequently cited Norway as a model with its sovereign wealth fund and massive oil and gas reserves. After brexit Ireland became the model most frequently cited due to still being a member of the EU and it's economic growth. 

In 2007, Salmond was fond of pointing to Ireland and using that as an example of what could be.  Of course, in 2008, Ireland was massively overexposed to the global financial crisis and went into a sharp and deep recession, which they also similarly came out off rapidly. Smaller countries and economies are typically more volatile to economic shock but similarly recover more quickly.   

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/salmond-reveals-dream-of-celtic-lion-economy-2512575

 

[Orraloon]

21 minutes ago, Freeedom said:

Before the 2014 referendum the SNP frequently cited Norway as a model with its sovereign wealth fund and massive oil and gas reserves. After brexit Ireland became the model most frequently cited due to still being a member of the EU and it's economic growth. 

That's not how I remember it. AS frequently sited Ireland, Iceland and Norway. Sometimes Denmark as well. He often spoke about and independent Scotland joining in on that "Arc of Prosperity" of small northern European nations. He also continually, and deliberately, downplayed the role of oil and gas. Saying things like Scotland has a strong enough economy to survive without North Sea oil and gas, anything we get from that would just be a bonus. He was wise enough to know that we had missed the boat on a sovereign wealth fund based on oil, because the Thatcherites had already pished all that down the drain.

[PapofGlencoe]

1 hour ago, Orraloon said:

That's not how I remember it. AS frequently sited Ireland, Iceland and Norway. Sometimes Denmark as well. He often spoke about and independent Scotland joining in on that "Arc of Prosperity" of small northern European nations. He also continually, and deliberately, downplayed the role of oil and gas. Saying things like Scotland has a strong enough economy to survive without North Sea oil and gas, anything we get from that would just be a bonus. He was wise enough to know that we had missed the boat on a sovereign wealth fund based on oil, because the Thatcherites had already pished all that down the drain.

Agree, plenty examples of what can be done and were given.

Maybe just me but I don't care what our population is. prob wouldn't want growth like Ireland's.  Where will the folk live? We seem to always be building houses so we must be going up in population anyway.  Our empty spaces and untouched highlands are part of what makes our country unique.  The central belt will surely become a metropolis the way things are going

As long as the people are happy and cared for.  Obviously there's an age crisis supposedly on the rise but that's the case for all of Europe I believe.

Edited April 19, 2023 by PapofGlencoe

[TDYER63]

On 4/9/2023 at 5:09 PM, Hertsscot said:

I think I'm correct in thinking that there's an indy march on 6 May in Glasgow and an anti monarchy march/demo in Edinburgh on the same day. For those of us who won't be glued to the TV watching Charlie's coronation it at least gives us a couple of options for what else to do but can't help thinking a little more communication and fewer egos would be helpful.

I am going to go to this march. I dont usually attend the marches but I think its absolutely essential this particular one is well attended and anyone who is seriously interested in independence should make a big effort to go. 
Malcolm , you are welcome to enjoy me. I imagine ‘All Under One Banner’ includes right wing too ……

[Orraloon]

2 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

I am going to go to this march. I dont usually attend the marches but I think its absolutely essential this particular one is well attended and anyone who is seriously interested in independence should make a big effort to go. 
Malcolm , you are welcome to enjoy me. I imagine ‘All Under One Banner’ includes right wing too ……

Well, there's an offer if ever I heard one. 

[TDYER63]

24 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Well, there's an offer if ever I heard one. 

😱😱😱

FFS what a riddy 😂I blame Benidorm 😁

[Hertsscot]

8 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

I am going to go to this march. I dont usually attend the marches but I think its absolutely essential this particular one is well attended and anyone who is seriously interested in independence should make a big effort to go. 

I've omitted your invitation to Malcolm to spare everyone's blushes but you are right about attending. Whatever difficulties the SNP has found itself in, none of them alter the fundamental arguments about independence and it's important that people turn out for this one.

[TDYER63]

15 hours ago, Hertsscot said:

I've omitted your invitation to Malcolm to spare everyone's blushes but you are right about attending. Whatever difficulties the SNP has found itself in, none of them alter the fundamental arguments about independence and it's important that people turn out for this one.

Thanks Herts you are a gentleman. Orraloon take note 😡🙂

And yes, a large turnout at a time the main independence party is in difficulty will show there is more to independence than the SNP. 

[Dave78]

 

Of course, Irish GDP is inflated, but the huge surpluses and (soon to be) sovereign wealth fund is very real.

 

[scotlad]

On 4/19/2023 at 12:57 PM, weekevie04 said:

We're just a small part of GB(it's England to most of the world).

Joanna Lamont's Scots are incapable of making big decisions etc is probably true during Indyref.

And now we're going to be stuck with Tory/Labour rule as the shit sticks to the SNP.

People simply don't care enough and it'll be managed to decline where we'll end up looking like some shit hole in the north of England.

I don't even mention my nationality abroad now, and if someone mentions it I'll talk about the national football team doing well. Imagine telling someone from Estonia, Iceland, Lithuania  or Ireland ''we are a proud country,'' - we are an autonomous part of GB who has a football team and a few other sports teams.

People don't care enough or are too comfy. Even Brexit couldn't get enough lazy cunts off their arse to demand independence.

We're barely a kick in the tail away from that now.

You look at Ireland - particularly in respect to the link Dave posted above - a country with a smaller population that ours (currently) and fewer natural resources, yet they've got themselves into a position where the government is so much in surplus it's able to consider starting a sovereign wealth fund.  A country, not without its problems by any means, but still possessing a self-confidence and strong sense of itself.

Then you look at Scotland, full of people whose sphere of consciousness stretches no further than England; where grey little politicians like Anas Sarwar and Douglas Ross offer no ambition or vision for the place other than remaining in a rapidly declining UK, and where the fourth estate consists of nyaffy client journalists churning out tawdry, parochial nonsense based on non-news about ferries and motorhomes, while patting themselves on the back like they're Woodward and fecking Bernstein rolled into one.

[Ally Bongo]

Meanwhile

https://www.thenational.scot/news/23516150.gordon-brown-hold-pro-union-rally-edinburgh-june/

Gordon Brown to hold pro-Union rally in Edinburgh in June

The cunts deserve fucking egged

[duncan II]

2 hours ago, scotlad said:

We're barely a kick in the tail away from that now.

You look at Ireland - particularly in respect to the link Dave posted above - a country with a smaller population that ours (currently) and fewer natural resources, yet they've got themselves into a position where the government is so much in surplus it's able to consider starting a sovereign wealth fund.  A country, not without its problems by any means, but still possessing a self-confidence and strong sense of itself.

Then you look at Scotland, full of people whose sphere of consciousness stretches no further than England; where grey little politicians like Anas Sarwar and Douglas Ross offer no ambition or vision for the place other than remaining in a rapidly declining UK, and where the fourth estate consists of nyaffy client journalists churning out tawdry, parochial nonsense based on non-news about ferries and motorhomes, while patting themselves on the back like they're Woodward and fecking Bernstein rolled into one.

It's fuckin' heartbreaking, isn't it? From c.2013-2017 I felt we were on the way to becoming a more ambitious, outward looking nation. Genuinely excited at the prospect. Don't see it in my lifetime now.

[Hertsscot]

9 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

Meanwhile

https://www.thenational.scot/news/23516150.gordon-brown-hold-pro-union-rally-edinburgh-june/

Gordon Brown to hold pro-Union rally in Edinburgh in June

The cunts deserve fucking egged

Can't see many people bothering to turn up for that.

[Orraloon]

40 minutes ago, Hertsscot said:

Can't see many people bothering to turn up for that.

You would have thought he would be smart enough to pick the middle of July. 😉

[hampden_loon2878]

Time to ditch these incompetent Green Party from coalition, what a train wreck of a party,,, student politics at its worst 

[Bzzzz]

1 hour ago, Hertsscot said:

Can't see many people bothering to turn up for that.

We should. Get him telt, PLEASE go away, you've caused enough damage already. 

[TDYER63]

2 hours ago, Hertsscot said:

Can't see many people bothering to turn up for that.

I wouldnt be so sure. They have picked Edinburgh for a reason. Shitebags 😁

[scotlad]

12 hours ago, duncan II said:

It's fuckin' heartbreaking, isn't it? From c.2013-2017 I felt we were on the way to becoming a more ambitious, outward looking nation. Genuinely excited at the prospect. Don't see it in my lifetime now.

I still hold out some hope but it's fainter now than it has been for a long time. Even as recently as two years ago I felt it was a serious prospect but either by accident or design it's been stymied and it's now difficult to see how it can be achieved any time soon. 

The opportunity presented by Brexit - a "material change in circumstance" - has gone and in fact, it wouldn't surprise me to see the UK re-join the EU (or as close as possible) in the medium term.  Most polling for re-joining the EU returns figures that Scottish independence supporters can only dream of.

[TDYER63]

29 minutes ago, scotlad said:

I still hold out some hope but it's fainter now than it has been for a long time. Even as recently as two years ago I felt it was a serious prospect but either by accident or design it's been stymied and it's now difficult to see how it can be achieved any time soon. 

The opportunity presented by Brexit - a "material change in circumstance" - has gone and in fact, it wouldn't surprise me to see the UK re-join the EU (or as close as possible) in the medium term.  Most polling for re-joining the EU returns figures that Scottish independence supporters can only dream of.

Whilst support is still polling high there is no reason for anyone to have given up hope. Try flipping it the other way. If support is still holding up with the shit show that is going on and the constant attacks then all is not lost. Indy supporters need to continue to highlight positive reasons for becoming independent . If they start to give up then it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. 

Edited May 12, 2023 by TDYER63

[hampden_loon2878]

Maybe local to me however the drop in snp support is staggering, a member who campaigned with all the old guard and in her 80’s has left the party and I was just stopped by an old pal who is saying that him finished with the snp, will not vote for humza and has voted snp since he was 18, he’s 56 years old. His exact words were “she has done what she has set out to do” referring to sturgeon.. 

 

i honestly hate that witch and the damage she has done, I don’t use that word loosely 

[scotlad]

6 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

Whilst support is still polling high there is no reason for anyone to have given up hope. Try flipping it the other way. If support is still holding up with the shit show that is going on and the constant attacks then all is not lost. Indy supporters need to continue to highlight positive reasons for becoming independent . If they start to give up then it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. 

It'll take a lot to disabuse me of my support for independence and you're right, the fact that support appears to be holding steady is encouraging.

I think there is an intellectual deficit at the top of the SNP though that is preventing the cause from progressing at this point in time.

[TDYER63]

17 hours ago, scotlad said:

I think there is an intellectual deficit at the top of the SNP though that is preventing the cause from progressing at this point in time.

Totally agree. I think the party became too successful too quick which meant duds were getting elected. And because of the split in the country we are restricted on talent. The trouble is nobody wants to get involved in politics these days. Why would they.
There are some decent supporters of independence, Lesley Riddoch for example, but she is better doing what she does as she is excellent at plain talking and appearing neutral. 

The best that can happen just now is to keep things as steady as possible. 

[hampden_loon2878]

if sturgeon comes out of this whole saga unscathed then that will tell you all you need to know,