Indyref 2 (2) - Page 75 - Anything Goes - Other topics not covered elsewhere - Tartan Army Message Board Jump to content

Indyref 2 (2)


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 5.6k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

10 minutes ago, aaid said:

And not all trans people will go through transformative surgery. 

Exactly. I imagine most will right enough, or have hormone treatment,  but either way the GRC is simply the document that confirms what they see as their gender . Its simply a piece of legislation.  Unless I am missing something or picking something up wrong in the conversation ? 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

Exactly. I imagine most will right enough, or have hormone treatment,  but either way the GRC is simply the document that confirms what they see as their gender . Its simply a piece of legislation.  Unless I am missing something or picking something up wrong in the conversation ? 

 

The majority of transwomen do have some form of surgery, the majority of trans-men - remember them, they seem to have been completely forgotten - do not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Read this yesterday when I was on the cross trainer at the gym. Interesting read from the House of Commons Women's and Equalities Committee which puts the current spat between UK and Scots Governments in a broader context 

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5802/cmselect/cmwomeq/977/report.html

One of the things that does strike me is there are a number of different issues.

The Scottish Government/SNPs communication around these issues has quite frankly been a disaster, just silencing concerned women as bigots or dismissing them as transphobes has not been a good look. 

Making the process easier for adults may well be a good thing but I am worried about the effect on young teenagers. I think that the England and Wales census showed about 2 person in 200 identified as trans. This is anecdotal but I'm pretty sure that in some schools it would be considerably more than that, it's certainly my impression that a lot of this has been driven by social media/celebrities (I had never heard pupils mention trans issues until Caitlyn Jenner came out as a trans woman) and in some quarters is almost fashionable. Given the general confusion of teenagers around sexual identity I think we need to be very cautious.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

15 minutes ago, Hertsscot said:

Read this yesterday when I was on the cross trainer at the gym. Interesting read from the House of Commons Women's and Equalities Committee which puts the current spat between UK and Scots Governments in a broader context 

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5802/cmselect/cmwomeq/977/report.html

One of the things that does strike me is there are a number of different issues.

The Scottish Government/SNPs communication around these issues has quite frankly been a disaster, just silencing concerned women as bigots or dismissing them as transphobes has not been a good look. 

Making the process easier for adults may well be a good thing but I am worried about the effect on young teenagers. I think that the England and Wales census showed about 2 person in 200 identified as trans. This is anecdotal but I'm pretty sure that in some schools it would be considerably more than that, it's certainly my impression that a lot of this has been driven by social media/celebrities (I had never heard pupils mention trans issues until Caitlyn Jenner came out as a trans woman) and in some quarters is almost fashionable. Given the general confusion of teenagers around sexual identity I think we need to be very cautious.

Caution would be wise.

”1.23. Evidence on the appropriate management of children and young people with gender incongruence and dysphoria is inconclusive both nationally and internationally”

https://cass.independent-review.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Cass-Review-Interim-Report-Final-Web-Accessible.pdf

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Stuart Campbell's going to reveal a big story on the decapitate terfs agressor at the trans rally. 

Rumour has it, he/it is a paid up SNP staffer, that wants to behead women. 

Alison Thewlis of course, she's like Manuel. I know nothing. I know nothing. Nothing! She doesn't have eyes on the back of her head she says. Nothing to see here. She knows nothing about the homeless under Glasgow Central either. No indoor soup kitchens available. 

I hope this helps destroy the SNP. I hate the party more than the tories. A party that hates woman. Violence and a culture war they have stoked. The betrayers of Scottish independence have a made a mockery of Scotland. 

Sturgeon the Judas must resign in disgrace. Then it's a start on the road to recovery for the dominant national party. The rot needs to be stripped from the head. 

 

Edited by Tartan_Tonna
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I struggle to believe that anyone who has any knowledge of Scottish politics and the 'Scottish' media really thinks that any elected politician would knowingly 'pose proudly' in front of such a deliberately inflammatory violent placard. 

One person who knew the placard was behind the politicians was the person who took or shared the photo. Anyone know who that was - anyone in the media bothering to ask?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, exile said:

I struggle to believe that anyone who has any knowledge of Scottish politics and the 'Scottish' media really thinks that any elected politician would knowingly 'pose proudly' in front of such a deliberately inflammatory violent placard. 

One person who knew the placard was behind the politicians was the person who took or shared the photo. Anyone know who that was - anyone in the media bothering to ask?

We will find out a lot more tomorrow and it would seem that the placard holder is not a "random"

The problem is that they are that far gone down the rabbit hole with this divisive fringe issue that they didnt take any care

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

We will find out a lot more tomorrow and it would seem that the placard holder is not a "random"

As I say, I am interested in who took and shared the photo. They must have known what they were doing.

7 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

The problem is that they are that far gone down the rabbit hole with this divisive fringe issue that they didnt take any care

I see what you mean, but I can't remember any time there has been a lull in attacks on the SNP. If it was not this it would be some other manufactured outrage blown out of proportion.

In a way, politicians associating with protests where people shout 'Tory scum' or anything perceived as anti-English are potentially more dangerous/damaging territory since those fuel the stereotype of 'narrow nationalism'. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Tartan_Tonna said:

Stuart Campbell's going to reveal a big story on the decapitate terfs agressor at the trans rally. 

Rumour has it, he/it is a paid up SNP staffer, that wants to behead women. 

Alison Thewlis of course, she's like Manuel. I know nothing. I know nothing. Nothing! She doesn't have eyes on the back of her head she says. Nothing to see here. She knows nothing about the homeless under Glasgow Central either. No indoor soup kitchens available. 

I hope this helps destroy the SNP. I hate the party more than the tories. A party that hates woman. Violence and a culture war they have stoked. The betrayers of Scottish independence have a made a mockery of Scotland. 

Sturgeon the Judas must resign in disgrace. Then it's a start on the road to recovery for the dominant national party. The rot needs to be stripped from the head. 

 

Congrats, you are now the thickest cunt to ever grace the TAMB

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Simple.We need to convince more people living in Scotland that looking after our own affairs is better than people from elsewhere looking after our affairs.

Everything else is just fog .

Don't get distracted 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, stocky said:

Simple.We need to convince more people living in Scotland that looking after our own affairs is better than people from elsewhere looking after our affairs.

Everything else is just fog .

Don't get distracted 

And how would you go about it, what would your case be? No plan after trying to convince people?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Freeedom said:

And how would you go about it, what would your case be? No plan after trying to convince people?

I don't have any power to do anything really, apart from convincing folk.

If we convince enough people, I think it'll take care of itself.

I honestly do. 

What do you think we should do...🤔

Scotland doesn't want Indy yet, it's unfortunate, but true.

 

Even supporters on here are more worried about whether someone has a boaby who doesn't want it or doesn't have a boaby and wants wan .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Freeedom said:

And how would you go about it, what would your case be? No plan after trying to convince people?


i think the best plan would be to try and shift to the centre ground and avoid fringe politics.  take on non contentious issues.  

There is a case that as generations evolve it will be easier to obtain independence as there is momentum.  I see two big risks - disillusionment, with people being fed up at the wait to get there, and risk of infiltration by fringe politicians.

in the short term, ditching sturgeon and the greens would be a step forward.  You ideally want a moderate but heavyweight leader, and I don’t see any obvious candidates.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, stocky said:

I don't have any power to do anything really, apart from convincing folk.

If we convince enough people, I think it'll take care of itself.

I honestly do. 

What do you think we should do...🤔

Scotland doesn't want Indy yet, it's unfortunate, but true.

 

Even supporters on here are more worried about whether someone has a boaby who doesn't want it or doesn't have a boaby and wants wan .

Of course not, but if you were first minister and had power, how would you convince people about the merits of independence? There are a group of people who are wary and need that push to get them over the line. What policies and reassurances would you try and give those people to bring them on board? 

I agree with you 100% that there needs to be more focus on getting people on board as a big part of our strategy.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Malcolm said:


i think the best plan would be to try and shift to the centre ground and avoid fringe politics.  take on non contentious issues.  

There is a case that as generations evolve it will be easier to obtain independence as there is momentum.  I see two big risks - disillusionment, with people being fed up at the wait to get there, and risk of infiltration by fringe politicians.

in the short term, ditching sturgeon and the greens would be a step forward.  You ideally want a moderate but heavyweight leader, and I don’t see any obvious candidates.

 

 

What would you need to hear from the Scottish government to get you to support yes?

You have to understand that in the short term governments will move left and right as parties are elected whether we are independent or not. Independence is a question of where you want power to lie, not of which short term policies appeal to you most in that moment. 

There must be some fundamental principles on which you adhere to that would make you back independence?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Freeedom said:

What would you need to hear from the Scottish government to get you to support yes?

You have to understand that in the short term governments will move left and right as parties are elected whether we are independent or not. Independence is a question of where you want power to lie, not of which short term policies appeal to you most in that moment. 

There must be some fundamental principles on which you adhere to that would make you back independence?


I guess I would like to be convinced that if we were independent, that our political spectrum would lie somewhere in the centre left to centre right.

I could live with a blairite style of government in Scotland.  Ideally I would have a government quite a bit to the right of that but accept that is unlikely in an independent scotland .  My biggest fear is that we would see a hard left government, which would cause exodus of our top talent and business, leading to a spiral of decline. I would leave Scotland in that case.

The fact that the greens are anywhere near influencing policy is a hard no for me.  Ross greer is like scargill and the commies from the 70s. The greens are a far left party.
I voted yes in 2014 as I believed that this might be possible and my heart ruling my head, but what I have seen since does not fill me with confidence about what an independent government  would look like in Scotland.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

 


I have no issue with Beth doing what she wants in her own spare time, using the pronoun she, etc.   still a biological man and birth certificate should reflect that.

I do have an issue with the threats of murder and violence against women, and desire to share a womens only safe space with her “surprise package”.

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Though it pains me to say it , I do agree with Malcolm on what is needed to get the Yes vote over the line 🙂

We do not have enough centre-centre right people backing independence, we just haven’t. Far right of centre is not a government i would want anywhere near an independent Scotland, in the same way Malcolm does not want far left, but we do need more people in that political spectrum. Good news is I don’t think there are many far right in Scotland to win over, but there is definitely more centre/ centre right than some would care to admit. 

I feel the SNP fall short on people with strong business acumen. I think we need more talent and not only that people with the ability to convince others that we do. Even within the wider movement, not just the SNP. Inexperienced activists can only do so much, I am not going to convince Mr Tunnocks Teacake with my laymans knowledge and songs of purple heather on  yonder hills. 

We need more people to believe in what Scotland fundamentally has going for it. I know not everyone understands, or is the least bit interested, in politics and finance, but surely business people must see the valuable natural assets Scotland has. Too many people are happy with their own comfortable lifestyle to rock the boat in any shape or form. We need more business people onboard to convince people its worth the risk. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

Sheer brain rot this, isn't it.  

A relative nobody is allegedly a wrong 'un.  This proves Sturgeon's "regime" has been "captured" and is a "cabal" of "peadophiles".  We have now been "told" the "dark secrets" of the "grooming".  We're only missing "satan worshippers" to complete the conspiracy.  He's turned into the Wing-Anon Shamon.

Has anyone listened to the podcast on the BBC sounds about the capitol riots?  Give it a listen, the language is strikingly similar.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

Sheer brain rot this, isn't it.  

A relative nobody is allegedly a wrong 'un.  This proves Sturgeon's "regime" has been "captured" and is a "cabal" of "peadophiles".  We have now been "told" the "dark secrets" of the "grooming".  We're only missing "satan worshippers" to complete the conspiracy.  He's turned into the Wing-Anon Shamon.

Has anyone listened to the podcast on the BBC sounds about the capitol riots?  Give it a listen, the language is strikingly similar.  

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

It might be sensationalist, but the public perception of this will not be good.  Like it or not, the general public do not want to see politicians aligned to extremists.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...



×
×
  • Create New...