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Indyref 2 (2)


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1 minute ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Removing the need for a gender dysphoria diagnosis at this stage of the debate is an extreme position to take imo. 

That’s not what you were saying though, is it.

The removal of the medical test for gender dysphoria is basically what the GRR bill is all about.

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2 minutes ago, aaid said:

That’s not what you were saying though, is it.

The removal of the medical test for gender dysphoria is basically what the GRR bill is all about.

And that’s extreme. Or wrong basically. But that’s possibly leading up to banning “conversion therapy” which I think is in the hate speech bill which reading between the lines might including talk therapy. Again, a potentially extreme position. 

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49 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

And that’s extreme. Or wrong basically. But that’s possibly leading up to banning “conversion therapy” which I think is in the hate speech bill which reading between the lines might including talk therapy. Again, a potentially extreme position. 

Perhaps you’re the one with the extremist views here?

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4 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

Well it most certainly would be forgotten about if it wasn’t for the UK government sticking their oar in . I think they have over stretched their reach on this one though , given how little real impact the GRA changes make for most people. Absolutely nobody believes the Tories care about any of changes being made. 

You didn’t answer my question on moving jobs from previous post. Interested to know why you wouldn’t move now and get embedded in renewables,  knowing O&G has a limited life span regardless and that renewables is a greener alternative . 

My platform has 20 years cop, I am heading towards the age of 40 quicker than I would like. I intend on retiring from offshore and working away by 50, take on a postie job or something. I am doing my health and safety tickets at the moment so maybe end up doing that in the moray east wind farm.. the wind turbine maintenance seems really boring also and would need to work away a bit longer than the age of 50 if I did jump to that sector.. rota is slightly better as well

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2 hours ago, aaid said:

Are they aware of what is behind them though?  

Are those signs acceptable, no of course not, but anyone who doesn’t think there’s bad actors on both sides of this “debate” who have extremist views is kidding themselves.

I see Murdo Fraser has reported this as a hate crime, that's funny as I thought he was opposed to hate crime legislation. 


i have no time for the hate crime bill, but if you have it you can’t pick and choose when it applies.  Where are Dornan and Yousaf now… straight out the gates with rangers fans singing the famine song. 

what’s the difference between threatening decapatation of women who oppose your views and “being up to your knees in fenian blood”.  Nothing.

I deplore both of these, just for clarity, but equally I’m not sure either should lead to criminal conviction.

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35 minutes ago, aaid said:

Perhaps you’re the one with the extremist views here?


read the public opinion.  Being able to talk and persuade your children that gender transformation is not necessarily a good thing is not a hate crime despite what the greens and some snp msps seem to believe.

the snp leadership along with the greens have taken an extremist fringe view, and there are plenty snp supporters now questioning the party.  The have made a strategic error.

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20 minutes ago, aaid said:

What is your rationale for objection to the removal of the medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria?

People should have to speak with a specialist before they are able to legally change their gender, especially adolescents. 

Obviously you can’t force people to engage in treatment, even if it’s just speaking to a psychologist but allowing young people, especially given the increase in young females experiencing gender dysphoria the ability to change gender without speaking to someone, doesn’t  appear to be good practice. 

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6 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

People should have to speak with a specialist before they are able to legally change their gender, especially adolescents. 

Obviously you can’t force people to engage in treatment, even if it’s just speaking to a psychologist but allowing young people, especially given the increase in young females experiencing gender dysphoria the ability to change gender without speaking to someone, doesn’t  appear to be good practice. 

That’s not what you’re talking about though. That is very different from the medical test.  Should a medical panel have to sign off on a diagnosis of gender dysphoria before someone can obtain a GRC?

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16 minutes ago, aaid said:

That’s not what you’re talking about though. That is very different from the medical test.  Should a medical panel have to sign off on a diagnosis of gender dysphoria before someone can obtain a GRC?

I think they should have a diagnosis of gender dysphoria before obtaining a GRC from a suitably qualified specialist. 

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1 minute ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Think I answered that already. 

The criticism of the current process is that it is both lengthy and dehumanising, in particular having to receive a diagnosis that there is something “wrong” with you, that you have some sort of mental illness.

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6 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

People should have to speak with a specialist before they are able to legally change their gender, especially adolescents. 

Obviously you can’t force people to engage in treatment, even if it’s just speaking to a psychologist but allowing young people, especially given the increase in young females experiencing gender dysphoria the ability to change gender without speaking to someone, doesn’t  appear to be good practice. 


completely agree. It’s such a life altering decision.

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6 minutes ago, aaid said:

The criticism of the current process is that it is both lengthy and dehumanising, in particular having to receive a diagnosis that there is something “wrong” with you, that you have some sort of mental illness.


you might not have a metal Illness but you were born in to a body to which feels alien to you.  It’s all very unfortunate when this happens but needs medical intervention as the repercussions are enormous.

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1 hour ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

My platform has 20 years cop, I am heading towards the age of 40 quicker than I would like. I intend on retiring from offshore and working away by 50, take on a postie job or something. I am doing my health and safety tickets at the moment so maybe end up doing that in the moray east wind farm.. the wind turbine maintenance seems really boring also and would need to work away a bit longer than the age of 50 if I did jump to that sector.. rota is slightly better as well

👍

Funny how folk want to semi retire as a postie, I know 2 folk who did just that and love it.  
After getting my hands chewed off by dugs  and limbo dancing trying to reach low down  letter boxes for doing snp leafleting there is not a chance of me doing that 🙂

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3 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

I am sure people said the same, or worse , about being homosexual or lesbian in the 70’s. 


isn’t that irrelevant to today? We are also talking about irreversible surgery in this case.

I have no issue with people transitioning. Entirely their choice.  Their birth certificate should still read male as that is what they were born (or female if born female).  Biological men should not compete in female sport.

 

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15 minutes ago, aaid said:

The criticism of the current process is that it is both lengthy and dehumanising, in particular having to receive a diagnosis that there is something “wrong” with you, that you have some sort of mental illness.

I appreciate that, especially the lengthy wait times for treatment, psychological and / or medical. A lot needs to improve.

Discussions on how we can de stigmatise gender dysphoria would be helpful but seems almost impossible given the culture war going on. 

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10 minutes ago, Malcolm said:


isn’t that irrelevant to today? We are also talking about irreversible surgery in this case.

I have no issue with people transitioning. Entirely their choice.  Their birth certificate should still read male as that is what they were born (or female if born female).  Biological men should not compete in female sport.

 

I thought we were talking about obtaining a GRC ? You can have transitioned before you get one . 

Its relevant to today as not that long ago people thought there was ‘ something wrong ‘ with being gay and that they should be ‘diagnosed’. 
 

 

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