Indyref 2 (2)

[aaid]

1 minute ago, mcguffin said:

Yes, I was disappointed with that (and Lesley and Pat didn't exactly sound that impressed in the podcast).  I'm half hoping  the Greens will quietly relent on that policy, even if temporarily, until after IndyRef2/DeFactoRef1. (Vigorous debate, and even hostilities between individual politicians and parties, can resume in a newly Independent Scotland of course 👍 In fact, I look forward to that day).

You think there’s bad blood between Alba and the SNP, it’s nothing compared to the bad blood between Alba and the Greens. 

[Diamond Scot]

Was the "vow" ever even close to being implemented? I cant remember exactly what it said but if as I suspect it was just said and then largely ignored as soon as they got the result they wanted then shouldnt the SNP make more of it?

Ive said before that I think the SNP are far too complient by playing by the rules when the game is rigged. They should be throwing in mentions of the vow in almost every interview. Even when its not part of the question. Just take every opportunity to highlight the lies.

Mention the brexit bus and all the other failed promises. Dont refer to Boris by name, call him the prime minister who broke the law etc etc.

[AlfieMoon]

Only seen the opening question from Flynn at PMQ’s but first impressions is just another lightweight SNP politician.  
 

There is a real dearth of talent in the ranks. Particularly at WM. 

[mcguffin]

12 minutes ago, aaid said:

You think there’s bad blood between Alba and the SNP, it’s nothing compared to the bad blood between Alba and the Greens. 

I'm just sharing what was reported on Lesley Riddoch's most recent podcasts (this one and that one)  Neale Hanvey (Alba), Tommy Shepherd (SNP), Nicola Sturgeon (SNP) and numerous non-party aligned speakers appeared on the same stage outside Holyrood.  I applaud them all.  It shows that political differences can be buried when the shared cause is strong enough. 

Anyway, anyone else on this thread who is a wee bit bored of interparty rivalries and egos, I recommend the Lesley Riddoch podcast. Quite refreshingly non-partisan.

[Dave78]

2 minutes ago, mcguffin said:

Anyway, anyone else on this thread who is a wee bit bored of interparty rivalries and egos, I recommend the Lesley Riddoch podcast. Quite refreshingly non-partisan.

Aye... I'd been looking for a Scottish politics podcast since Stuart Cosgrove's went subscriber only, so thanks for sharing

[mcguffin]

6 minutes ago, Dave78 said:

Aye... I'd been looking for a Scottish politics podcast since Stuart Cosgrove's went subscriber only, so thanks for sharing

you're welcome Dave78! 👍

[exile]

The Unionist media are wetting their pants over Ian Blackford being 'ousted' and pretending it's a 'blow for Sturgeon'.

But this is the same people who disdained, ridiculed or smeared him while in office, but now they are pretending his departure is a bad thing for indy.

He put in a shift, and did seem to scores some hits sometimes missed by the Official oppositionn. But he seemed at times as if fighting yesterday's battles, or relying on making arguments of opposition that would work if the Government was right and honourable rather than a bunch of crooks and liars playing by their own rules to the cheers of a jingoistic press.

[exile]

2 hours ago, mcguffin said:

Yes, I was disappointed with that (and Lesley and Pat didn't exactly sound that impressed in the podcast).  I'm half hoping  the Greens will quietly relent on that policy, even if temporarily, until after IndyRef2/DeFactoRef1. (Vigorous debate, and even hostilities between individual politicians and parties, can resume in a newly Independent Scotland of course 👍 In fact, I look forward to that day).

One reason the Leave campaign worked as well as it did was it was able to target different people and promise them different and even opposing things (I once knew what those were, can't remember now). So a bit of diversity in the indy camp is not a bad thing from that point of view. That could include different views on EU/EFTA, green-ness, socialism, social conservatism, etc.

[exile]

4 hours ago, aaid said:

I'm starting to get the feeling that Labour's big constitutional announcement has been found to be dead on arrival.

Just looking at the data, if I'm reading this correctly, they have produced a breakdown between the two GE options.

It essentially means that there's no change in the Tory vote between the two options.   12% of Labour and 3% vote SNP in the defacto.  4% of SNP, don't vote SNP, that goes to Labour, LDEMs and Greens (small number across all)  I guess the Green voters are assuming they would count as Indy votes and so don't need to vote SNP.   Alba got less than 1% and so don't trouble the scorers. 

There is still as many pro-Indy Labour voters that need to won over though to the idea of a defacto ref - 26% of their UKGE vote would vote Yes (DK excluded).

More detail on Indy.  Every region has a pro-Indy majority, Glasgow has the biggest lead 60/40.

The age profile is very interesting.  We know that as you get older this tails off.  However for 55 and above, the numbers are 46% Yes, 54% No.  The Yes numbers in that group have generally been 40% and below.
 

The viewpoint of pro-Indy Labour could be crucial. That's why I think it's important that the de facto referendum is to achieve independence not another mandate for a referendum. If I was indy leaning Labour/socialist, I'd imagine being more tempted to vote indy to get rid of the Tories 'instantly and forever' than voting for a not particularly socialist not particularly certain majority Starmer government that could be replaced bv Tories again in a few years.

[exile]

[aaid]

4 hours ago, exile said:

One reason the Leave campaign worked as well as it did was it was able to target different people and promise them different and even opposing things (I once knew what those were, can't remember now). So a bit of diversity in the indy camp is not a bad thing from that point of view. That could include different views on EU/EFTA, green-ness, socialism, social conservatism, etc.

How’s that diversity of views working out for Leave now?

[hampden_loon2878]

11 hours ago, exile said:

Something strange with the polling of late, especially with the Westminster voting intentions, the difference between the red field & Mori one is way out the margin of error.

[aaid]

10 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Something strange with the polling of late, especially with the Westminster voting intentions, the difference between the red field & Mori one is way out the margin of error.

Indeed, which is why you shouldn’t jump on a single poll as gospel.  Ipsos tends to be on the high side for Indy, so don’t be surprised if the next Panelbase or Survation polls show a “drop” from 56% - although it’s not really a drop if they’re up on their previous polls. 

The Indy numbers from Redfield Wilton aren’t so off the scale, they were quoting 52/48, what was off the scale was the SNP VI numbers 41 against 51, with a whole load of commentators jumping on that and essentially making fools of themselves.  

As I pointed out at the time, it was their first Scotland wide poll of voting intention for WM, which was reason enough to be a bit sceptical about the numbers.  

[Och Aye]

On 12/6/2022 at 11:32 AM, Freeedom said:

We need to make the transition away from fossil fuels as quickly as is humanly possible and that means no further exploration and exploitation of untapped resources, we must draw a red line under that. Just because other countries continue to drive life towards extinction does not mean that we should do the same, we can be a progressive beacon in that regard and reap the economic benefits well into the future as we inevitably move away from fossil fuels.

Scotland needs to be and has a great opportunity to be a forward thinking country that builds and focuses it's economy around the renewables sector and it should be an absolutely foundational argument in our case for independence. The SNP need to have a coherent energy plan and right now they do not have one because Nicola can't make up her mind about whether she wants to do the right thing or not.

Where is the vision from the Scottish government that is going to get people excited about our future? Right now they are offering nothing.

Meanwhile, a few miles over the border.

https://news.stv.tv/world/michael-gove-grants-planning-permission-for-new-coal-mine

[aaid]

5 minutes ago, Och Aye said:

Meanwhile, a few miles over the border.

https://news.stv.tv/world/michael-gove-grants-planning-permission-for-new-coal-mine

Alok Sharma’s stuck the boot right in. 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/dec/03/alok-sharma-cumbria-coal-mine-backward-step-government-climate-expert

[TDYER63]

25 minutes ago, aaid said:

Alok Sharma’s stuck the boot right in. 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/dec/03/alok-sharma-cumbria-coal-mine-backward-step-government-climate-expert

I heard this bit on a snippet of the news last night. 

‘He noted that the main prospective customers for the mine – UK steel producers – had already rejected it. “85% of coal produced would be for export, not domestic use – two major UK steel producers won’t necessarily use much of the coal, not least due to its composition and sulphur content.’

Totally idiotic decision..

[weekevie04]

The polling is excellent and great news but just shows how fickle we are as a nation and tbh, stupid - half expect it to be back to 50/50 or the slight no in a few months time once people have forgotten about the supreme court decision.

 

Edited December 8, 2022 by weekevie04

[Squirrelhumper]

Toys out the pram from Pete 

[TDYER63]

10 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Toys out the pram from Pete 

🙄 miawo. 

[aaid]

Poor show from Wishart there. 

[Orraloon]

Time for a changing of the old guard. Get some of the younger, more ambitious and more energetic folk involved at a higher level. It would be nice if the older politicians would bow out gracefully, to make way for the younger crew, but I guess if that was part of their character they might not be politicians in the first place? 

[aaid]

6 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Time for a changing of the old guard. Get some of the younger, more ambitious and more energetic folk involved at a higher level. It would be nice if the older politicians would bow out gracefully, to make way for the younger crew, but I guess if that was part of their character they might not be politicians in the first place? 

Out of interest, who do you see as the old guard?

[Orraloon]

Ian Blackford and Pete Wishart.

[scotlad]

20 hours ago, AlfieMoon said:

Only seen the opening question from Flynn at PMQ’s but first impressions is just another lightweight SNP politician.  
 

There is a real dearth of talent in the ranks. Particularly at WM. 

I thought his speech was okay.  Not electrifying; it didn't make me want to storm the barricades or paint my face blue and sack York, but I thought it was decent enough for a maiden speech.

[Ally Bongo]

2 hours ago, aaid said:

Poor show from Wishart there. 

What i am struggling to understand is why Joanny Cherry's face was tripping her at the new SNP leader meeting photo and then why Wishart has also taken the huff as they are opposite sides of the fence you would have thought

20 hours ago, AlfieMoon said:

Only seen the opening question from Flynn at PMQ’s but first impressions is just another lightweight SNP politician.  
 

There is a real dearth of talent in the ranks. Particularly at WM. 

From his performances on TV interviews so far he is far less defensive than Blackford which can only be a good thing