Indyref 2 (2)

[stocky]

So Gordon Brown's 'more devolution' is to take power from holy rude and give it to local areas. 

While I think we need to spread power around, that can be done after independence.(Island assemblies etc) 

Broon is only doing it to neuter the Scottish Parliament, not to devolve power for any principled reason.

He's a man who sees Scotland as a bigger Yorkshire or another Northumberland.

 

 

[aaid]

33 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Speak up against an idiotic stance, more than blackford ever did

“Allies of Flynn speaking to the Telegraph” H’mmmmm.

[hampden_loon2878]

2 hours ago, aaid said:

“Allies of Flynn speaking to the Telegraph” H’mmmmm.

I always found it weird blackford towed her line with the oil exploration stance considering how much family he has in the industry

[aaid]

1 hour ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

I always found it weird blackford towed her line with the oil exploration stance considering how much family he has in the industry

So you think Ian Blackford should be using his influence to benefit his family?  That’s pretty corrupt. 

[Freeedom]

7 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

That’s more like it 

No, it's completely fucking stupid. If we want life to continue on this planet we cannot continue to drill for oil in the North sea. This coming from a former Geophysicist

[PapofGlencoe]

Why some MPs and hangers on think there should be clear water between the Scottish Parliament SNP and London SNP is bizarre to me. 

It's always been a very united party which gives it strength with purpose.  A party seeking to break up the UK state doesn't need division within.  Parnell wouldn't have allowed it, neither Salmond and not Sturgeon either.

Scotland needs a united voice.  Not daft wee battles.  If nothing else Blackford kept this going.  Needs a fresh face, not aggro within

 

[hampden_loon2878]

9 hours ago, aaid said:

So you think Ian Blackford should be using his influence to benefit his family?  That’s pretty corrupt. 

Who’s insinuating that? 

[hampden_loon2878]

8 hours ago, Freeedom said:

No, it's completely fucking stupid. If we want life to continue on this planet we cannot continue to drill for oil in the North sea. This coming from a former Geophysicist

How much of the worlds output does the northsea account for? So will we just import what we need causing a bigger carbon footprint? No that’s completely fucking stupid, and that’s coming from a current oil worker 🤣,,,Anyways it could easily be offset with carbon capture, you being a geophysicist would know that though 

Edited December 6, 2022 by hampden_loon2878

[phart]

Carbon capture is rapidly becoming the same as cold fusion. Great in practice no one can get it working at scale though.

It's turning into fossil fuel company propaganda as well as they advocate it without actually supplying it.

[hampden_loon2878]

16 minutes ago, phart said:

Carbon capture is rapidly becoming the same as cold fusion. Great in practice no one can get it working at scale though.

It's turning into fossil fuel company propaganda as well as they advocate it without actually supplying it.

No it works perfectly fine when taking the carbon directly from a power station, wich would be Peterhead and putting it into the golden eye depleted gas field, pulling carbon from the air and then dumping it, Wel that’s a different story  

[aaid]

54 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Who’s insinuating that? 

You’re the one who said “considering how much family he has in the industry”.

[Alibi]

i'd agree that abandoning our oil reserves, at a financial cost to Scotland, is daft.  when the biggest polluters and producers start doing it, then we can chip in with our contribution, but doing it unilaterally and then having to import oil from sources who can cut off the supply is just plain daft.  Doing so is more about NS virtue signalling than anything else.  We can do a transition to renewables (and we're well on the way compared to many) without damaging Scotland's economy (and thereby harming the case for indy as a result).

[aaid]

6 minutes ago, Alibi said:

i'd agree that abandoning our oil reserves, at a financial cost to Scotland, is daft.  when the biggest polluters and producers start doing it, then we can chip in with our contribution, but doing it unilaterally and then having to import oil from sources who can cut off the supply is just plain daft.  Doing so is more about NS virtue signalling than anything else.  We can do a transition to renewables (and we're well on the way compared to many) without damaging Scotland's economy (and thereby harming the case for indy as a result).

I don’t think anyone in the SNP is proposing abandoning oil and gas overnight despite what some people are scaremongering over.  What they are against is opening up *new* fields and support extracting from the existing fields while ramping up the renewables sector.  That is going to take several years.   

As for small countries not being able to do much and “virtue signalling”, this was started by the SG announcing a very small contribution at COP26 and has gained momentum since then.

https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/story/cop27-ends-announcement-historic-loss-and-damage-fund

[phart]

2 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

No it works perfectly fine when taking the carbon directly from a power station, wich would be Peterhead and putting it into the golden eye depleted gas field, pulling carbon from the air and then dumping it, Wel that’s a different story  

Where is this being done then? I linked earlier in the thread folk from different universities creating the technology now saying it is a dead end, some of them had their own start up businesses to do it, but couldn't get it to work.

Is there a working solution happening right now at scale?

[Freeedom]

1 hour ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

How much of the worlds output does the northsea account for? So will we just import what we need causing a bigger carbon footprint? No that’s completely fucking stupid, and that’s coming from a current oil worker 🤣,,,Anyways it could easily be offset with carbon capture, you being a geophysicist would know that though 

We need to make the transition away from fossil fuels as quickly as is humanly possible and that means no further exploration and exploitation of untapped resources, we must draw a red line under that. Just because other countries continue to drive life towards extinction does not mean that we should do the same, we can be a progressive beacon in that regard and reap the economic benefits well into the future as we inevitably move away from fossil fuels.

Scotland needs to be and has a great opportunity to be a forward thinking country that builds and focuses it's economy around the renewables sector and it should be an absolutely foundational argument in our case for independence. The SNP need to have a coherent energy plan and right now they do not have one because Nicola can't make up her mind about whether she wants to do the right thing or not.

Where is the vision from the Scottish government that is going to get people excited about our future? Right now they are offering nothing.

[Freeedom]

Imagine how popular a policy it would be to nationalise the energy sector, that is an independence vote winner right there. Why are we not already making this argument?

[hampden_loon2878]

2 hours ago, aaid said:

You’re the one who said “considering how much family he has in the industry”.

Or would it be the fact that he would see the effects first hand if the industry was to fall on its arse? Is that not a more reasonable take on it? But as usual you are trying to be a smart arse 

[hampden_loon2878]

1 hour ago, aaid said:

I don’t think anyone in the SNP is proposing abandoning oil and gas overnight despite what some people are scaremongering over.  What they are against is opening up *new* fields and support extracting from the existing fields while ramping up the renewables sector.  That is going to take several years.   

As for small countries not being able to do much and “virtue signalling”, this was started by the SG announcing a very small contribution at COP26 and has gained momentum since then.

https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/story/cop27-ends-announcement-historic-loss-and-damage-fund

Spoken as someone who has no idea of the industry and how it works 

[hampden_loon2878]

1 hour ago, phart said:

Where is this being done then? I linked earlier in the thread folk from different universities creating the technology now saying it is a dead end, some of them had their own start up businesses to do it, but couldn't get it to work.

Is there a working solution happening right now at scale?

Norway, the technology isn’t the problem. It’s there it’s the political will that’s lacking, one example is the rough gas storage off Norwich, gas is pumped into it in the summer and extracted in the winter. The infrastructure is pretty much in place at Peterhead, the golden eye gas field ready to be refilled with C02. 

[hampden_loon2878]

1 hour ago, Freeedom said:

We need to make the transition away from fossil fuels as quickly as is humanly possible and that means no further exploration and exploitation of untapped resources, we must draw a red line under that. Just because other countries continue to drive life towards extinction does not mean that we should do the same, we can be a progressive beacon in that regard and reap the economic benefits well into the future as we inevitably move away from fossil fuels.

Scotland needs to be and has a great opportunity to be a forward thinking country that builds and focuses it's economy around the renewables sector and it should be an absolutely foundational argument in our case for independence. The SNP need to have a coherent energy plan and right now they do not have one because Nicola can't make up her mind about whether she wants to do the right thing or not.

Where is the vision from the Scottish government that is going to get people excited about our future? Right now they are offering nothing.

I agree partly but we produce less than 2% of the oil and gas in the world and as I said we could offset it with carbon capture, we could be a world leader in that also 

[hampden_loon2878]

56 minutes ago, Freeedom said:

Imagine how popular a policy it would be to nationalise the energy sector, that is an independence vote winner right there. Why are we not already making this argument?

100% this ^^^

[Och Aye]

☝️☝️☝️

Cant understand why this isn't a flagship policy. Starts to make you wonder 🤔

Edited December 6, 2022 by Och Aye

[phart]

1 hour ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Norway, the technology isn’t the problem. It’s there it’s the political will that’s lacking, one example is the rough gas storage off Norwich, gas is pumped into it in the summer and extracted in the winter. The infrastructure is pretty much in place at Peterhead, the golden eye gas field ready to be refilled with C02. 

Project longship isn't even fully operational atm, and is for 1.5 million tons per annum. They prudice 30+ million tons from fossil fuels. So it's a start but as I said a year ago it needs scaled up and quickly.

It isn't happening. Sometimes the situation outruns the pace the scientists tasked with creating the technology.

 

[hampden_loon2878]

2 minutes ago, phart said:

Project longship isn't even fully operational atm, and is for 1.5 million tons per annum. They prudice 30+ million tons from fossil fuels. So it's a start but as I said a year ago it needs scaled up and quickly.

It isn't happening. Sometimes the situation outruns the pace the scientists tasked with creating the technology.

 

Same can be said about ebectricrifying our transportation, or heating our homes ect.. it’s in its infancy and nowhere near developed enough. Carbon capture in scotland could be up and running within 4 years with investment.. 

[Orraloon]

14 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Same can be said about ebectricrifying our transportation, or heating our homes ect.. it’s in its infancy and nowhere near developed enough. Carbon capture in scotland could be up and running within 4 years with investment.. 

Where do you think that investment will come from, and how much do you think it would need?