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Indyref 2 (2)


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1 hour ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

brochs always been a nationalist town, some die hard torys,, brexit did change the dynamics a bit though,, i heard he got slaughtered today haha

Ross's refereeing is the one thing I respect him for. (Let's face it, it takes balls to be an official--especially a linesman--at any level in Scottish football). So I feel a wee bit bit sorry for him in this case. Doing a job that few would touch.


When he gets slaughtered in Holyrood though? I don't feel any sympathy at all 😀

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16 hours ago, Malcolm said:


i quite like Joanna cherry, at least she has a sensible view on gender reassignment. I wouldn’t be disappointed if Nicola was punted and she got leadership.  In fact, if the radical policies influenced by the greens were dropped and she was leader I might even be tempted to vote snp again.

You are aware that Cherry is very left wing?

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14 hours ago, mcguffin said:

I see where your coming from aaid. But I'd argue that what all of these people have in common is that they simply want Scotland to be a normal independent country. And they want to see faster progress in that direction. I don't think they they care who is the current FM.  I don't know, your bullet point list of some of their membership, and their bad deeds, followed by the assertion that it's all personal, that it's all a "get rid of Nicola" party, almost seems like the kind of thing a  mainstream journalist from the Guardian, The Herald or <insert any other 'respected' journal> might write?

I'm sure someone could write a similar bullet list of SNP members and their misdemeanours. But personally I'm not interested in this stuff. Others might be? I just want to see an Independent Scotland in my lifetime. (And I suspect that Alex, Nicola and many other faces associated with present day Scottish politics, will fade into history in a newly independent Scotland. Their jobs done. And I will applaud them all if they succeed).

I wrote that quickly this morning before I left the house.   It was from memory, but that doesn’t mean that any of it is wrong.  If I could be bothered, maybe tomorrow, I could write a lot more on all of these people and more. 

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8 hours ago, exile said:

Wouldn't Salmond's message be better received among independence supporters  if he was above party politics?

Would Salmond’s message be better accepted if he wasn’t viewed by the vast majority as a sex pest?

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2 hours ago, Dave78 said:

To be fair, it's the most relevant (or only) example of a UK nation leaving the union.

The point I would make on that is that he is a friend of mine on Facebook and has been for years, in reality he’s more friend of a friend(s) but I did have dealings with him a number of years ago on TA specific matters. 

In the last year or so, he’s been putting up a lot of references to books about Irish rebellion, not exclusive to 1916 but heavily on that period. 

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2 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

brochs always been a nationalist town

How do you explain David Duguid then or are you blaming all that on Peterhead?

Ive an old friend who is from the Broch, actually Pitullie if I’m being accurate.  She’s a massive Tory and seems to have loads of like-minded pals?

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33 minutes ago, aaid said:

Would Salmond’s message be better accepted if he wasn’t viewed by the vast majority as a sex pest?

going down that road since you have managed to get the thplinth banned and the whole thread deleted to hide the slander you aimed towards him,, everyone is starting to see right through you now

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27 minutes ago, aaid said:

How do you explain David Duguid then or are you blaming all that on Peterhead?

Ive an old friend who is from the Broch, actually Pitullie if I’m being accurate.  She’s a massive Tory and seems to have loads of like-minded pals?

i know exactly who you will be on  about, view with a pew maybe...  for your information, sandhaven and pitullie held the highest snp sampling of any town or village in scotland in 2011.. the broch is a very nationalist place, maybe not as much as before but it is(especially towards independence) ,, i have leafleted and done sampling there for the snp,, but yet you will tell me differently as you know better

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8 hours ago, aaid said:

I wrote that quickly this morning before I left the house.   It was from memory, but that doesn’t mean that any of it is wrong.  If I could be bothered, maybe tomorrow, I could write a lot more on all of these people and more. 

If you think that will forward the cause of Scotland becoming a normal Independent nation, than go ahead.  (I just hope no-one on the board takes your lead and starts writing lists of the misdemeanours of Conservative Party members. It would break the TAMB server.)

 

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12 hours ago, Broath Boy said:

Right, just back from the Scottish cup Fraserburgh v Arbroath ( Arbroath win 0-2) and realised D Ross running the line, could not get near him, however, at half time and full time the ground and especially the home fans absolutely ripped him, I’m talking about boos from the far side to the stand, he got it big time, good, so there’s a poster that posts on here that says the north east are waivered, by fuck D Ross got melted, full fishing boats in the harbour, not a Tory voice to be seen, well done Fraserburgh.

I'd say he got ripped more because of him allowing the 1st goal because it was apparently offside 

Edited by vanderark14
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Has anyone seen, anywhere, any unionist commentator reflect on the fact that the Supreme Court verdict seems to confirm the UK as a unitary state and not a voluntary partner in a Union of nations?

While the British nationalist view probably always was that the UK is a unitary state and always was, the Unionist position always emphasised a multi-national partnership, not Scotland as a region with no right to secession.

It's the Unionists whose vision has been most severely diminished. But all I have seen so far is just reporting on party political implications for SNP, get on with the day job, or an assumption that independence has been put to bed. It seems to have  disappeared as a UK national story. 

I didn't expect too much soul searching but I thought maybe someone would at least acknowledge that something about the nature of the UK had changed. I didn't think they would let their vision pass into history without comment. It is as if the idea of a Union of nations, and even Scotland as a nation, have gone out with a whimper.

Edited by exile
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18 minutes ago, exile said:

Has anyone seen, anywhere, any unionist commentator reflect on the fact that the Supreme Court verdict seems to confirm the UK as a unitary state and not a voluntary partner in a Union of nations?

While the British nationalist view probably always was that the UK is a unitary state and always was, the Unionist position always emphasised a multi-national partnership, not Scotland as a region with no right to secession.

It's the Unionists whose vision has been most severely diminished. But all I have seen so far is just reporting on party political implications for SNP, get on with the day job, or an assumption that independence has been put to bed. It seems to have  disappeared as a UK national story. 

I didn't expect too much soul searching but I thought maybe someone would at least acknowledge that something about the nature of the UK had changed. I didn't think they would let their vision pass into history without comment. It is as if the idea of a Union of nations, and even Scotland as a nation, have gone out with a whimper.

To be honest I was expecting nothing less than what we have had. Asking/expecting a unionist to realise or accept that this union is flawed in anyway is like asking a priest to blaspheme - it ain't going to happen. 

Unionists are cosy and smug with the idea that they have the law and legalities on their side regardless of how unfair or how manufactured the law is towards their cause.

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10 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

i know exactly who you will be on  about, view with a pew maybe...  for your information, sandhaven and pitullie held the highest snp sampling of any town or village in scotland in 2011.. the broch is a very nationalist place, maybe not as much as before but it is(especially towards independence) ,, i have leafleted and done sampling there for the snp,, but yet you will tell me differently as you know better

That’s her, you can go and ask her all about me if you want. 

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40 minutes ago, exile said:

Has anyone seen, anywhere, any unionist commentator reflect on the fact that the Supreme Court verdict seems to confirm the UK as a unitary state and not a voluntary partner in a Union of nations?

While the British nationalist view probably always was that the UK is a unitary state and always was, the Unionist position always emphasised a multi-national partnership, not Scotland as a region with no right to secession.

It's the Unionists whose vision has been most severely diminished. But all I have seen so far is just reporting on party political implications for SNP, get on with the day job, or an assumption that independence has been put to bed. It seems to have  disappeared as a UK national story. 

I didn't expect too much soul searching but I thought maybe someone would at least acknowledge that something about the nature of the UK had changed. I didn't think they would let their vision pass into history without comment. It is as if the idea of a Union of nations, and even Scotland as a nation, have gone out with a whimper.

Hardly surprising in any shape or form. Never in a million years are they going to shine a light on the shortcomings of the union for Scotland. If anything, steering it away to the SNP as usual. 
That is why it’s important for pro democracy folk to highlight it at every opportunity. The James O’brien video is ideal as it is not coming from someone who is pro independence.  

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10 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

going down that road since you have managed to get the thplinth banned and the whole thread deleted to hide the slander you aimed towards him,, everyone is starting to see right through you now

Whether he is one or isn’t one isn’t the point.  The vast majority of the public think he is, why else is he so unpopular?   it’s not just Unionists that don’t like him, it’s the vast majority of Nationalists as well.
 

The guy is toxic, maybe that’s unfair, maybe it isn’t, but that’s a fact.   Anyone who is trying to rehabilitate him is on to a loser.  You might well be right that he speaks to a certain - small - section of the nationalist community, but they are all true believers.  Nothing that Salmond says or does will convince someone to vote Yes, purely because of who the messenger is.  Worse than that, he’s a convenient bogeyman for Unionists to use to discredit the movement.   That’s why i see him talking a public position as being detrimental to independence. 

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16 minutes ago, aaid said:

Whether he is one or isn’t one isn’t the point.  The vast majority of the public think he is, why else is he so unpopular?   it’s not just Unionists that don’t like him, it’s the vast majority of Nationalists as well.
 

The guy is toxic, maybe that’s unfair, maybe it isn’t, but that’s a fact.   Anyone who is trying to rehabilitate him is on to a loser.  You might well be right that he speaks to a certain - small - section of the nationalist community, but they are all true believers.  Nothing that Salmond says or does will convince someone to vote Yes, purely because of who the messenger is.  Worse than that, he’s a convenient bogeyman for Unionists to use to discredit the movement.   That’s why i see him talking a public position as being detrimental to independence. 

The guy was exonerated, that may be an inconvenient fact for some but its the truth.

I agree he  is pretty unpopular but that doesn’t mean what he has to say should be ignored . He is sharper than most in the SG. 
I dont believe people would be turned off because of who is delivering the message. Probably wont convince a strong unionist but I doubt anyone would.

Delivery is as important as content. If someone puts their points over in a pragmatic and relaxed manner people will engage, even if they don’t particularly like the person . His delivery is very natural . 

And the public are pretty quick to forget , you only need to look at the Australian jungle to see that. Any push for independence will be weaker without his input IMO. 

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6 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

The guy was exonerated, that may be an inconvenient fact for some but its the truth.

I agree he  is pretty unpopular but that doesn’t mean what he has to say should be ignored . He is sharper than most in the SG. 
I dont believe people would be turned off because of who is delivering the message. Probably wont convince a strong unionist but I doubt anyone would.

Delivery is as important as content. If someone puts their points over in a pragmatic and relaxed manner people will engage, even if they don’t particularly like the person . His delivery is very natural . 

And the public are pretty quick to forget , you only need to look at the Australian jungle to see that. Any push for independence will be weaker without his input IMO. 

Sorry but however unfair it may seem damage goods remain so.

Other examples being Michael Barrymore - top entertainer of his time and eventually cleared of involvement in the death of a party-goer in his swimming pool but you'll never see him back on UK television. Dave Lee Travis was the same - accusations were made but not carried through but you will not see him back in the public eye because of it. Ron Atkinson was another whose racial slur comments have seen him dropped by all major TV channels as a pundit.

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9 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Sorry but however unfair it may seem damage goods remain so.

Other examples being Michael Barrymore - top entertainer of his time and eventually cleared of involvement in the death of a party-goer in his swimming pool but you'll never see him back on UK television. Dave Lee Travis was the same - accusations were made but not carried through but you will not see him back in the public eye because of it. Ron Atkinson was another whose racial slur comments have seen him dropped by all major TV channels as a pundit.

Well if people on the same side as him keep bleating on about him being damaged goods it’s hardly going to inspire the general public is it. Try focusing on what he CAN contribute. There are loads of examples of people who have come back. In this day and age in particular people’s misdemeanours seem to get brushed under the carpet, trying taking advantage of it rather it always being the opposition who do.

I know what you are saying, and I realise he is unpopular, but he raises a lot of important points and we dont have a huge amount of speakers in his calibre. 

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Just now, TDYER63 said:

Well if people on the same side as him keep bleating on about him being damaged goods it’s hardly going to inspire the general public is it. Try focusing on what he CAN contribute. There are loads of examples of people who have come back. In this day and age in particular people’s misdemeanours seem to get brushed under the carpet, trying taking advantage of it rather it always being the opposition who do.

I know what you are saying, and I realise he is unpopular, but he raises a lot of important points and we dont have a huge amount of speakers in his calibre. 

It is not just about the damaged goods side of things. Polls in the last couple of years had Salmond on the same level of unpopularity in Scotland as Boris Johnson..... think about that. To push independence over the line that sort of unpopularity is not going to encourage people to vote yes.

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15 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

It is not just about the damaged goods side of things. Polls in the last couple of years had Salmond on the same level of unpopularity in Scotland as Boris Johnson..... think about that. To push independence over the line that sort of unpopularity is not going to encourage people to vote yes.

Aye, Sturgeon and her coven fair did a number on the guy.  Hopefully the defence side of things will become public knowledge sometime.

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5 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

It is not just about the damaged goods side of things. Polls in the last couple of years had Salmond on the same level of unpopularity in Scotland as Boris Johnson..... think about that. To push independence over the line that sort of unpopularity is not going to encourage people to vote yes.

Yes. Sadly associating a single personality with a potentially popular movement, and then vilifying that person, has been an effective political tactic over the years. This is from (the Sparksnotes to 😉 ) Orwell's "1984":

image.thumb.png.84c4a3b05111be3908e1d7f38dc906eb.png

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7 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

It is not just about the damaged goods side of things. Polls in the last couple of years had Salmond on the same level of unpopularity in Scotland as Boris Johnson..... think about that. To push independence over the line that sort of unpopularity is not going to encourage people to vote yes.

You are not being asked to sell him as a paragon of virtue, you need to target the right people. We all know it is not an insurmountable task to tip the balance in favour of independence. It does mean though we need to be clever in how we try to sell it.

I know for a fact that I could send that video of him in West Lothian to certain friends and say ‘ look, I know AS  is not too popular , but listen to what he has to say’. I honestly think they would watch it.
Dont underestimate how pissed off people are with the Tories and energy/ cost of living situation. 

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5 minutes ago, daviebee said:

Aye, Sturgeon and her coven fair did a number on the guy.  Hopefully the defence side of things will become public knowledge sometime.

It runs far deeper than the court case and he openly admitted he acted inappropriately.

Back in 2014 I knew of loads who said they could not vote Yes because of Salmond they disliked him that much. So his unpopularity goes back way before any court case.

A big PR disaster too was appearing on Russian TV not long before Russia invaded Ukraine and have become a global lepur.

Edited by Caledonian Craig
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