Indyref 2 (2)

[daviebee]

44 minutes ago, aaid said:

So you’ve no answers then, all you can do is criticise from the sidelines.  

I answered your question: use the next GE as an indyref with 50% + 1 meaning we immediately open negotiations.  Now you could maybe answer mine?

[Malcolm]

16 minutes ago, aaid said:

There’s lots of people who haven’t got the sort of Brexit they thought they were going to get.

COVID and Ukraine are just excuses and help people to pretend that what they wanted was never going to happen. 

im agreeing with you.  We are way worse off than we would have been.

[Caledonian Craig]

The sad thing I garner reading messages here is that the independence movement has good numbers but not dedicated enough to votingvYes. On the other side of the coin the No side is far more steadfast and dug in to vote No regardless of whatever shit Westminster deals them.  

[aaid]

41 minutes ago, daviebee said:

I answered your question: use the next GE as an indyref with 50% + 1 meaning we immediately open negotiations.  Now you could maybe answer mine?

So you’re in agreement with Nicola Sturgeon then, that’s good to hear 👍

[Dave78]

2 hours ago, Malcolm said:

I don’t care what you believe…. But I voted yes in 2014.  Here’s the thing, people change their minds… times change, views change.  I’m sure you hope that a few people change from No to yes.  I’m seeing a lot of people changing from yes to no or don’t know (as in my case).

 

2 hours ago, Malcolm said:

i am right wing (you might say Tory, but there are several right wing parties), now undecided on independence, but ideologically aligned to independence.  My problem with the tories is the terrible leadership in recent times.

 

2 hours ago, Malcolm said:

I was a no voter up until three weeks before the referendum.  I let my heart rule my head in the vote. 

 

These posts really help explain where you're coming from.

Apologies for me insinuating in earlier posts that you weren't what you claimed to be. 

 

1 hour ago, exile said:

Have been seeing a lot of Union-deniers out there - people insisting the UK is a unitary sovereign state, just one country. This is the staunch British nationalist view. As opposed to the traditional "Unionist" view that sees the UK as a multi-national family of nations (and that's what makes it special, best-of-both-worlds, etc.... the view that won 2014)

So what it looks like is that the emboldened Brit nat view is that there is no such thing as the Union - they are "Union deniers" - while the traditional Unionists are in denial that it's the Brit nat view that the Supreme Court just endorsed.

Strange days... though it has been on the cards for a while. What will Unionists do about it? Media not asking this question.

"Union deniers". This is excellent framing! Love it.

The indy debate should be fought in the voters minds between the Scottish pro-democracy movement, and the union-deniers.

Read this book 20 years ago, and it's more relevant than ever.

 

[daviebee]

29 minutes ago, aaid said:

So you’re in agreement with Nicola Sturgeon then, that’s good to hear 👍

So you can't answer then? No surprise.  👍

[Ally Bongo]

39 minutes ago, aaid said:

So you’re in agreement with Nicola Sturgeon then, that’s good to hear 👍

I'm not

It surely has to be a Holyrood election and i hope to fuck this meeting in the new year (why not now) at the very least proposes it

[Dave78]

Been watching the livestream of Salmond. Without doubt, Salmond is still the best speaker in the Scottish pro-democracy movement.

 

 

[PapofGlencoe]

2 hours ago, daviebee said:

I answered your question: use the next GE as an indyref with 50% + 1 meaning we immediately open negotiations.  Now you could maybe answer mine?

That's what's on offer. 

I suggest getting behind it.

[daviebee]

2 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

That's what's on offer. 

I suggest getting behind it.

And as per a previous post of mine they've already started backtracking from it.

[PapofGlencoe]

57 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

I'm not

It surely has to be a Holyrood election and i hope to fuck this meeting in the new year (why not now) at the very least proposes it

Don't agree.  

A Scottish election rightly or wrongly can be more easily ignored by UK media, Govt and international press.

Winning on the grand stage is the best way to submit pressure.

Also, UK elections mean less about day to day issues to Scots.  SNP has been voted in Westminster elections with zero chance of governing ergo governing polices. It's about standing up for Scotland in UK elections.  It's now about independence.

 

Edited November 25, 2022 by PapofGlencoe

[PapofGlencoe]

2 minutes ago, daviebee said:

And as per a previous post of mine they've already started backtracking from it.

No, they haven't.  If you're referring to mhairi hunter.  Different point in time.

[daviebee]

4 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

No, they haven't.  If you're referring to mhairi hunter.  Different point in time.

The article is from yesterday, but if she actually made her remarks before the SC verdict then she'll just be prepping you for the inevitable let down.

[hampden_loon2878]

59 minutes ago, Dave78 said:

Been watching the livestream of Salmond. Without doubt, Salmond is still the best speaker in the Scottish pro-democracy movement.

 

 

i am not ashamed or make no apologies to say that salmond is one of my heroes. They say you should never meet your heroes as it usually disappoints, well it didn't for me after i met him in 2015, every time i have met him since he gives me that little boost  thats needed. He is always very optimistic in us achieving independence. The one thing i love about his politics is that is is always positive and forward thinking. politics is all about selling a vision more so in Scottish politics, this is something the current SNP should take note of 

[PapofGlencoe]

1 minute ago, daviebee said:

The article is from yesterday, but if she actually made her remarks before the SC verdict then she'll just be prepping you for the inevitable let down.

That sounds awfy like you know the comments are not linked to this week's announcement and are prior to position now being taken.

[daviebee]

3 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

That sounds awfy like you know the comments are not linked to this week's announcement and are prior to position now being taken.

No, as far as I know the comments are from yesterday's article.  I've no other way of knowing what utter drivel Mhairi Hunter comes out with.

[PapofGlencoe]

7 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

i am not ashamed or make no apologies to say that salmond is one of my heroes. They say you should never meet your heroes as it usually disappoints, well it didn't for me after i met him in 2015, every time i have met him since he gives me that little boost  thats needed. He is always very optimistic in us achieving independence. The one thing i love about his politics is that is is always positive and forward thinking. politics is all about selling a vision more so in Scottish politics, this is something the current SNP should take note of 

He has a part to play but if it's anything it's calling the dogs off and backing the plan we are now forced to have.  There's no point moaning about the past.

We have a plan, the only plan.

It may involve strange bed fellows.  It's time to back it. I'm sure he will.

[PapofGlencoe]

6 minutes ago, daviebee said:

No, as far as I know the comments are from yesterday's article.  I've no other way of knowing what utter drivel Mhairi Hunter comes out with.

Well now you know, it's not relevant to the current position.  

Get behind this or don't.

Sounds like you're already faltering before there's any reason to.

 

[daviebee]

No idea WTF you're on about.  It'll always be a Yes from me.  I've got absolutely zero trust that those tasked with bringing the vote about will deliver though.

[PapofGlencoe]

9 minutes ago, daviebee said:

No idea WTF you're on about.  It'll always be a Yes from me.  I've got absolutely zero trust that those tasked with bringing the vote about will deliver though.

Likewise.   No idea what you were moaning about.  Your route is the route on offer.

  Glad youre on board.

[hampden_loon2878]

57 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

He has a part to play but if it's anything it's calling the dogs off and backing the plan we are now forced to have.  There's no point moaning about the past.

We have a plan, the only plan.

It may involve strange bed fellows.  It's time to back it. I'm sure he will.

The likes of Pete Wishart in the snp are every bit as bad as the roasters in Alba so it  will work both ways,, honestly no idea what whisharts beef is nowadays, he’s went totally off track 

[Dave78]

1 hour ago, PapofGlencoe said:

He has a part to play but if it's anything it's calling the dogs off and backing the plan we are now forced to have.  There's no point moaning about the past.

We have a plan, the only plan.

It may involve strange bed fellows.  It's time to back it. I'm sure he will.

As much as i admire Salmond, and liked his speeches at the meeting tonight (in the video i posted), i don't think he'll be willing to "call the dogs off and back the plan we are now forced to have".

For example, he referred to the Irish independence movement tonight, and how in the aftermath of 1916 the rebels were "spat on in the streets" by Dubliners. That's historical fact of course. His point was that sometimes you need to do the unpopular thing, which encourages an over-reaction from the establishment power (in the Irish case the execution of the rebels in Kilmainham jail), which then in turn causes an upsurge in support for your cause.

Considering Salmond had always adopted the gradualist approach, this attitude makes me wonder how sincere he is, and how motivated he is by party advantage. I suspect he sees Alba as Sinn Fein, and the SNP as the Irish Parliamentary Party.

I'm a bit uncomfortable with this. @hampden_loon2878, next time you see him, ask him about the IPP/SF comparison and his take on it 👍

Edited November 25, 2022 by Dave78

[hampden_loon2878]

8 minutes ago, Dave78 said:

As much as i admire Salmond, and liked his speeches at the meeting tonight (in the video i posted), i don't think he'll be willing to "call the dogs off and back the plan we are now forced to have".

For example, he referred to the Irish independence movement tonight, and how in the aftermath of 1916 the rebels were "spat on in the streets" by Dubliners. That's historical fact of course. His point was that sometimes you need to do the unpopular thing, which encourages an over-reaction from the establishment power (in the Irish case the execution of the rebels in Kilmainham jail), which then in turn causes an upsurge in support for your cause.

Considering Salmond had always adopted the gradualist approach, this attitude makes me wonder how sincere he is, and how motivated he is by party advantage. I suspect he sees Alba as Sinn Fein, and the SNP as the Irish Parliamentary Party.

I'm a bit uncomfortable with this. @hampden_loon2878, next time you see him, ask him about the IPP/SF comparison and his take on it 👍

He’s a strategist, there is no move he plays that has no purpose, everything he does has a reason, maybe just hard to see it just now. He is finished in main stream politics imo but in a referendum campaign he would be invaluable 

[Dave78]

6 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

He’s a strategist, there is no move he plays that has no purpose, everything he does has a reason, maybe just hard to see it just now. He is finished in main stream politics imo but in a referendum campaign he would be invaluable 

I'd agree with your strategist point. That was clear from his talk tonight.

I hoped and expected him to get elected on the list at the last elections, but his failure shows how much i know, and also how toxic ("finished") he is in mainstream politics.

Edited November 25, 2022 by Dave78

[hampden_loon2878]

1 minute ago, Dave78 said:

I'd agree with your strategist point. That was clear from his talk tonight.

I hoped and expected him to get elected on the list at the last elections, but his failure shows how much i know, and also how toxic ("finished") he is in mainstream politics.

That’s probably his biggest mistake in jumping the gun prior the  holyrood election with alba maybe you could argue he shouldn’t have stepped aside after the referendum in 2014.. i firmly believe we would have been independent by now.The creation of the alba party to me is a deterrent to the snp and should be welcomed IMHO