Indyref 2 (2)

[aaid]

46 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Were you by any chance listening to the John Beattie radio program yesterday? There was no doubt in my mind that some of the folk on there were just itching for some shenanigans to kick off at the rallies last night. The BBC is filled with devious, odious fukers.

Someone from Aberdeen told me that there was a woman who turned up at the rally on Union St wearing a Union Jack jacket.   I also saw a clip of Alastair McConnachie being interviewed on STV which is pretty poor from them.

[Caledonian Craig]

10 minutes ago, aaid said:

Someone from Aberdeen told me that there was a woman who turned up at the rally on Union St wearing a Union Jack jacket.   I also saw a clip of Alastair McConnachie being interviewed on STV which is pretty poor from them.

The yoons always try holding a token gesture demonstration at independence marches. Standing by roadside in cluster in UJ regalia with a megaphone.

[aaid]

Just now, Caledonian Craig said:

The yoons always try holding a token gesture demonstration at independence marches. Standing by roadside in cluster in UJ regalia with a megaphone.

Yes, and that’s fair enough.  I don’t think it’s fair enough that STV give a platform to an extreme right wing holocaust denier though. 

[Caledonian Craig]

20 minutes ago, aaid said:

Yes, and that’s fair enough.  

No I see it as purely confrontational. Organise (if there is the will and spirit) to hold their own marches on their own dates. Do not hang around the roadside of a planned and official march looking to bait people.

[aaid]

3 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

No I see it as purely confrontational. Organise (if there is the will and spirit) to hold their own marches on their own dates. Do not hang around the roadside of a planned and official march looking to bait people.

I believe in the right to peaceful protest - peaceful doesn’t need to be quiet and it can be confrontational - regardless of whether or not I agree with the views that they hold.   As long as it doesn’t cross those boundaries then that’s fine.  Just to be clear, I don’t think that the “where” protests can take place is absolute but I think counter demonstrations are pretty much fine.

[Malcolm]

5 hours ago, PapofGlencoe said:

Doesn't really matter what you think though does it?  I don't mean that in a disrespectful way.  If enough of your fellow people understand the concept then it should matter.

If people vote on a one word, clearly defined manifesto I'm not sure what more can be asked of people at this stage.

i agree, we all see it through out own lens, and i have one small vote.

[exile]

4 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

I think you might get one or two who would be willing to turn to armed conflict but i doubt the ppl of scotland would back them enough for it to ever be a serious resistance in the same way the ira or pira were. 

Scotlands nationalist population is just too small and mentally weak to be fighting any kind of war against the uk. 

Maybe if the irish and scots were to combine forces then there might be an uprising to be taken seriously but i doubt the scottish side could ever match the irish ppls commitment. 

Ppl in scotland are just too comfortable to be resorting to widespread violence in a way the other commonwealth countries were forced to under the british empire. 

I also think its important to remember that the nationalist population in scotland is probably only 3m ppl at most. 3m up against more than 60m and the might of the british armed forces is a mismatch and i genuinely hope no hardline scots decide to take up arms as they will be lambs to the slaughter. 

I think it's reasonable, in the current context, to start wondering about civil disobedience and peaceful resistance. We have hardly got near that yet so I think wondering about actual armed resistance is premature, to say the least. 

In terms of history, I think the use of violence against the British Empire was a product of - or went hand in hand with - the British treatment of those places. I mean, Ireland was in places like an occupied colony where British troops were garrisoned like a military state and carried out what would now be called atrocities. Violence breeds violence. I would not say that the Irish or of Cyprus or Israel/Palestine or people of African states who rebelled, were/are more belligerent than 'mentally weak' Scots. It's just that Scotland (Jacobites aside) were treated better through the 19th an 20th centuries and so did not spur a violent reaction, especially when so many Scots identified with and took part in the British project.

Edited November 24, 2022 by exile

[Dave78]

6 hours ago, aaid said:

In this respect at least that doesn’t appear to be happening.

When you look at polling data by age groups you see that slowly the older age groups are becoming more pro - or less anti - indy.  For example, I don’t think that’s about people changing their minds, rather it’s as people get older and move up the brackets, they’re not changing their minds  

That's encouraging to hear.

What's also encouraging is some polling data i saw a few weeks ago. It referred to how people thought the Scottish economy would fare post-indy. It was roughly split between indy being positive for the economy, and damaging for it.

Back in 2014, a significant majority thought indy would be damaging.

 

 

6 hours ago, aaid said:

In the same way he voted Yes in 2014.   At least Alan was honest in his views and I respected him for that. 

Every post from Malcolm screams Tory.

 

[Orraloon]

24 minutes ago, Dave78 said:

 

 

 

Every post from Malcolm screams Tory.

 

I don't think he has ever denied being a Tory at heart?

[stocky]

5 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

I agree but any sensible way forward depends on the UK gov acting in an appropriate manner. Its clear that isnt going to happen under a tory gov and i personally cant see it happening under the current Labour leadership.

In a way, the SNP becoming so dominant in Scotland works against us at a UK level as there is no incentive for Tory and increasingly labour to try and get Scottish favour or votes.

The toties have a majority of @180, labour , while miles ahead in the polls need a massive result to get a majority.

a hung Parliament is not far fetched 

[Orraloon]

I think the situation is only going to start moving if the opinion polls start moving. As much as I hate opinion polls, I think this is now the only driver that can push us towards Independence. It's now getting on for a decade since Nicola suggested we should wait until the polls are consistently giving close to 60%, before we go again. She didn't put any timescale on this at the time. She is still playing the long game but the polls need to start moving or it could soon be game over for Nicola.

This is fundamentally what started the split between her and AS. Alex wanted to go as soon as possible after the Brexit vote with the thinking that, if we start from a base of 45%, a good campaign would push us over the line. Effectively AS moved closer to the fundamentalist side of the SNP and Nicola has held doggedly on to the gradualist approach. We shouldn't forget that AS spent most of his time in leadership fighting against the fundamentalists in the SNP. Nicola has won that battle, just as AS won that battle within the party during the 80s and 90s. Time will tell whether her approach has worked. How much time it will take to find out is hard to guess at.

[aaid]

11 minutes ago, stocky said:

The toties have a majority of @180, labour , while miles ahead in the polls need a massive result to get a majority.

a hung Parliament is not far fetched 

At this point you wouldn’t bet against a Labour majority, but you can guarantee there won’t be an election for at least 18 months and more likely two years.  I think the Labour lead isn’t as solid as so,e think and it will be closer come Election Day, I wouldn’t rule out a hung Parliament either. 

[Orraloon]

25 minutes ago, stocky said:

The toties have a majority of @180, labour , while miles ahead in the polls need a massive result to get a majority.

a hung Parliament is not far fetched 

Where can I join the "toties" party? 😉 😂

[TDYER63]

1 minute ago, Orraloon said:

Where can I join the "toties" party? 😉 😂

😂

Dont bother, its mince. 

[aaid]

11 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

I think the situation is only going to start moving if the opinion polls start moving. As much as I hate opinion polls, I think this is now the only driver that can push us towards Independence. It's now getting on for a decade since Nicola suggested we should wait until the polls are consistently giving close to 60%, before we go again. She didn't put any timescale on this at the time. She is still playing the long game but the polls need to start moving or it could soon be game over for Nicola.

I’d agree with this 100%.  Whereas 50% + 1 is enough to win a referendum it’s clearly not enough to get one.  What has to happen is that any and all objections need to be overturned. I’d say that in terms of demonstrating support it would need to 6 months at least of consistent polling over 60%, although the high 50s as a demonstrable switch from the 2014 result would be enough.   Then that backed up with a similar result in an actual election would answer that question over the settled will.

Not that I see the Labour Party as being in the least bit amenable to Indy, I think they will find it harder to put up a brick wall.  They’ll have opposition from a sizeable section of their membership and also the Trades Unions, whose Scottish branches are in the main either agnostic or pro-Indy.

The polls don’t just move themselves though and it’s not all on Nicola to move them herself.  The Yes Movement needs to get active and visible again.  

[Orraloon]

5 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

😂

Dont bother, its mince. 

Even better. Yum.

[TDYER63]

1 hour ago, Dave78 said:

That's encouraging to hear.

What's also encouraging is some polling data i saw a few weeks ago. It referred to how people thought the Scottish economy would fare post-indy. It was roughly split between indy being positive for the economy, and damaging for it.

Back in 2014, a significant majority thought indy would be damaging.

 

 

Every post from Malcolm screams Tory.

 

Means heehaw really but a friend of mine is quite big into gambling and checks the bookies odds fairly regularly on this. Says this is the first time’ No ‘ has  not been favourite. 
 

[Tartan_Tonna]

SCOTLAND'S DAY OF SHAME

https://wingsoverscotland.com/scotlands-day-of-shame/#comments

"A panel comprising a majority of Scottish judges ruled definitively for the first time that Scotland was erased as a nation 315 years ago, and subsumed into England as a colony. Remarkably, the panel did so while insisting explicitly that it was doing no such thing, in a grave insult to all intelligent people."

SCOTLAND IN CHAINS

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2022/11/scotland-in-chains/

 

" Inherent in the judgment of the Supreme Court is the proposition, incredibly advanced by Scotland’s Lord Advocate, that Scotland effectively ceased to exist as a nation in 1707 and the Scottish legal principle of the sovereignty of the people was completely replaced by the English legal principle of the sovereignty of the Crown in parliament. Thus Scotland has no authority, power or recourse, in any situation, beyond what is handed down to it by Westminster.

That is in no sense an exaggeration. It is what the ruling is."

Through A Scottish Prism: Supreme Court discussion.

England's slaves. Scotland in chains. Our Sovereignty deemed worthless requiring permission of Tories. Our nation ceases to exist. We are not sovereign Scots. Mere subjects of King Charles, unable to think for ourselves or express our own free will. 

In discussion with Professor Alfie Baird, on post colonial theory. Nicola is the colonial administrator of the dominant national party that's stimying Independence for Scotland. We've been lead by an Oliver Twist First Minister, wanting us to beg for some more porridge in 2024. In post colonial theory you can delay Independence but you can never deny it. Scotland begins it's fight of liberation and the SNP are the Irish Independence Party 2.0. They are the colonial administrators that have came to an agreement with the oppressor. 

The SNP have released the British Gas advent Calander this Christmas, with each one of the Westminster blocks face on the door. Upon opening an old lady dies of hypothermia. It's now clear that Scotland will have to declare itself trans to demand equal rights, before Nicola let's Scotland claim ours through Independence. 

Saor Alba. Free Scotland. Our day will come. The time liberation is now. We need immediate action on Independence. We need to fight for our equal rights. 

Edited November 24, 2022 by Tartan_Tonna

[stocky]

31 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Where can I join the "toties" party? 😉 😂

 

29 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

😂

Dont bother, its mince. 

Aye, it's fu' of dumplings 

Edited November 24, 2022 by stocky

[Tartan_Tonna]

Ian Lawson: I am angry

https://wp.me/pc5GdD-3yq

"Nicola has already screwed any plebiscite election route through her insistence that only SNP votes would count, ignoring and discounting all other votes from pro Indy parties including her allies the Greens. Leaving nothing to chance she is ensuring the Yes side will be hopelessly divided and her insistence on SNP votes only is just the most recent example of her intention to put Party above country. BOTH VOTES SNP rides again."

 

 

[Tartan_Tonna]

SALVO.

Time for liberation for Scotland. We are sovereign Scots not subjects. F*ck the Tories. 

 

 

Edited November 24, 2022 by Tartan_Tonna

[aaid]

[Dave78]

58 minutes ago, aaid said:

 

The polls don’t just move themselves though and it’s not all on Nicola to move them herself.  The Yes Movement needs to get active and visible again.  

Need to stop referring to it as the Yes Movement, and start calling it the Pro-Democracy Movement.

Not sure if it's possible to re-brand at this stage, but i think that would be a positive change.

[aaid]

10 minutes ago, Dave78 said:

Need to stop referring to it as the Yes Movement, and start calling it the Pro-Democracy Movement.

Not sure if it's possible to re-brand at this stage, but i think that would be a positive change.

Piss off, I’ve got loads of Yes gear from 2014 I’m intending to recycle.

seriously, not a bad idea 👍

[hampden_loon2878]

9 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

Which Nephew - Under 13s or the younger one? They both love their fitba, I have see the older one play a few times but not the younger one yet but I hear he can really play.

we talk about moving back now and again. I fancy the Central belt near Edinburgh in the future but I would never rule out a permanent move back to the North east

youngest one, they had a very good festival at the sports village a few weeks back, i was out here but apparently did really well against the Aberdeen teams. i coach the team wea chris, hes a good lad. hopefully that team stick together.