Turkey (Turkiye?) squad

[scotlad]

11 hours ago, Kirk said:

Coulda played at Ibrox and saved a plane journey

Nope he had one decent cross when the ball broke to him, thats it. Hes fucking woeful and theres a reason he's not playing for Newcastle, doesn't work hard enough and isnt clever enough

Gilmour is obviously lacking game time, the move to Brighton happened at the wrong time, he should try and get another loan even if its championship to get game time.

Ramsay didnt look amazing but it's his firs game and hes barley played any actual senior football either. Think he needs to go get games for liverpool before he comes back in.

Robertson for me is a terrible choice of captain and just isn't as good for Scotland due to the players around him, I feel he almost trys too hard to carry the team at times and misses out on just playing his game. 

 

Keeper thing as everyone says is baffling

You obviously don't like Ryan Fraser for some reason (nae bother, you're entitled to your opinion) but if he really was fucking woeful he wouldn't even be at Newcastle. He wasn't great yesterday but neither was he responsible for either of the goals we conceded. We don't have many players of his type and until we do or until he is completely out of the picture at Newcastle, I'd carry on picking him.

It's true that Robertson plays with a different calibre of player at Liverpool but that doesn't explain his poor deliveries. If the ball reaches its target then he's at least done his job but often his crosses last night didn't even beat the first defender - that's his fault, not the fault of his teammates.

[Orraloon]

Losing 2-1 to Turkey isn't that bad a result. They were at home. They are at about the same level as us just now. We are fairly close in the rankings. We are at 40 and they are 45, and only 20 ranking points behind us. We both got to the same stage in the WC. We got humped at home by Ukraine in the playoff. They lost away to Portugal. 

But if we want to climb up the rankings then we need to be beating teams at this level. But Turkey will be thinking the same. It was a friendly. We have never been very good at organising, playing in, or learning from friendlies. I'm not getting too bothered about this result.

[Kirk]

1 hour ago, scotlad said:

You obviously don't like Ryan Fraser for some reason (nae bother, you're entitled to your opinion) but if he really was fucking woeful he wouldn't even be at Newcastle. He wasn't great yesterday but neither was he responsible for either of the goals we conceded. We don't have many players of his type and until we do or until he is completely out of the picture at Newcastle, I'd carry on picking him.

It's true that Robertson plays with a different calibre of player at Liverpool but that doesn't explain his poor deliveries. If the ball reaches its target then he's at least done his job but often his crosses last night didn't even beat the first defender - that's his fault, not the fault of his teammates.

Fraser is awful, he barley every turns up for Scotland and as i said there's a reason hes no longer getting a game at newcastle, hes no good enough for them and Howe knows it. He will be a journeyman player his whole career and a bit like ollie burke will somehow manage good moves even though realistically hes pish!

If you read what i said about Robertson properly I didnt specifically blame other players, he tries far too hard instead of just doing what hes good at. 

[0Neils40yarder]

12 minutes ago, Kirk said:

Fraser is awful, he barley every turns up for Scotland and as i said there's a reason hes no longer getting a game at newcastle, hes no good enough for them and Howe knows it. He will be a journeyman player his whole career and a bit like ollie burke will somehow manage good moves even though realistically hes pish!

If you read what i said about Robertson properly I didnt specifically blame other players, he tries far too hard instead of just doing what hes good at. 

Robertson putting crosses into the box for Salah, Diaz, Firminho and Jota is a completely different thing to putting a cross into the box for Lyndon Dykes on his own.

 

Far too many of our players were way off it last night.

Gordon to me looks just about done, but the manager clearly does not trust his back ups...its a huge problem.

Tierney looked the rustiest I've ever seen him, while Gilmour looked like a competition winner. Ramsay is clearly not ready yet.

Jacob Brown being flung up front was embarrassing, but hey that's what the McBurnie haters want.

[ceudmilefailte]

1 hour ago, Orraloon said:

Losing 2-1 to Turkey isn't that bad a result. They were at home. They are at about the same level as us just now. We are fairly close in the rankings. We are at 40 and they are 45, and only 20 ranking points behind us. We both got to the same stage in the WC. We got humped at home by Ukraine in the playoff. They lost away to Portugal. 

But if we want to climb up the rankings then we need to be beating teams at this level. But Turkey will be thinking the same. It was a friendly. We have never been very good at organising, playing in, or learning from friendlies. I'm not getting too bothered about this result.

Write it down on a piece of paper in  a couple of years time and Turkey 2-1 Scotland won't look like the end of the world, , but the only positive I can see from last nights result is that it clarified some of our deficiency's.

I can see a mirror image of Celtic and Rangers champions league performances in the next Nations League campaign.

[Grim Jim]

Just as well we have more than Celtic and Rangers players to pick from then, but aye, the next NL does have some fear factor for me.   Here's hoping we find some joy along the way.

Doesn't blind me to the poor performance, but what about that double penalty that wasn't given?   Particularly the forearm on McKenna.

[Orraloon]

32 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Write it down on a piece of paper in  a couple of years time and Turkey 2-1 Scotland won't look like the end of the world, , but the only positive I can see from last nights result is that it clarified some of our deficiency's.

I can see a mirror image of Celtic and Rangers champions league performances in the next Nations League campaign.

McGinn getting to 15 goals must be a positive. No? Robbo got an "assist" for that one as well. Add that to your stats. 😂

McGinn now has Miller and McCoist in his sights. If he overtakes them it would be a phenomenal achievement. 

You are right, we probably will get some right good humpings in the next Nations League but it's great opportunity for our players to play at that level. And the worst we can be for the following campaign is in League B. If that sort of experience can help us to qualify for the EUROs and the next WC then it's all worthwhile.

[mccaughey85]

1 hour ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

Robertson putting crosses into the box for Salah, Diaz, Firminho and Jota is a completely different thing to putting a cross into the box for Lyndon Dykes on his own.

 

Far too many of our players were way off it last night.

Gordon to me looks just about done, but the manager clearly does not trust his back ups...its a huge problem.

Tierney looked the rustiest I've ever seen him, while Gilmour looked like a competition winner. Ramsay is clearly not ready yet.

Jacob Brown being flung up front was embarrassing, but hey that's what the McBurnie haters want.

Gordon has looked good the last few games. Not sure how he looks done off the back last night, the goals were hardly his fault. His kicking was a bit off but overall hes the best option we have and usually pulls off good saves. 

The mcburnie haters dont want either brown or mcburnie upfront. Both are pretty poor options. Have you actually seen mcburnie play for scotland? He was brutally bad. Brown hasnt been much better but hes not had nearly the same chances as mcburnie. Its not a case of picking one or the other. 

[Orraloon]

6 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Gordon has looked good the last few games. Not sure how he looks done off the back last night, the goals were hardly his fault. His kicking was a bit off but overall hes the best option we have and usually pulls off good saves. 

The mcburnie haters dont want either brown or mcburnie upfront. Both are pretty poor options. Have you actually seen mcburnie play for scotland? He was brutally bad. Brown hasnt been much better but hes not had nearly the same chances as mcburnie. Its not a case of picking one or the other. 

Ball distribution has always been one of the weakest parts of Craig Gordon's game. It seems to me, that it's getting even worse and more people are starting to notice it now. 

Edited November 17, 2022 by Orraloon

[mccaughey85]

1 hour ago, Kirk said:

Fraser is awful, he barley every turns up for Scotland and as i said there's a reason hes no longer getting a game at newcastle, hes no good enough for them and Howe knows it. He will be a journeyman player his whole career and a bit like ollie burke will somehow manage good moves even though realistically hes pish!

If you read what i said about Robertson properly I didnt specifically blame other players, he tries far too hard instead of just doing what hes good at. 

Problem is we dont really have any better wingers than fraser. Maybe this doak lad might turn into a star but until then fraser is our best bet. He did assist twice for dykes goals against ukraine and he was playing out of position last night.

Maybe morgan and burke should be given chances on the wings. Especially morgan as i think he could do well for us.

[Judith]

I think Steve Clarke will have learned a lot from last night. The problem for me is that they were lessons he should have already known the answers to.

The first and main one is that 3 at the back doesnt work for us anymore. It makes us too slow and predictable and leaves us a man short in midfield. It was no surprise that we looked much better when we switched to a 4. The gauling thing is that it took us to 2-0 down to accept it and make the change.

Ryan Fraser at wingback will never work apart from against significantly inferior opposition where his defensive duties wont be subject to the same level of inspection. We should have started with Ramsay last night and if the manager didnt think he was up to it, we should have draughted in a replacement when Patterson pulled out. Of course the alternative could have been to play a 4 from the start and play Jack Hendry there.

Next, Grant Hanley has regressed back to pre Euro 2020 Grant Hanley. Unlikely that he will get any better so why not give Porteous another run out to see if he can develop into a higher calibre centre half?

The keeper situation. Happy to see Gordon add to his caps total, but one of the others should have got the second half. I accept that it wouldnt make either of them a better keeper, but it gets the first cap thing out of the way and psychologically allow them to concentrate on their game should the time come when we have to throw them in.

John McGinn has to be played in the advanced role for Scotland at all times. He was a shadow of the player we know he can be in the first half, but his run and finish for the goal were magnificent. He is our most likely goal threat and we should play him as such.

In midfield, we really miss Callum McGregor. Gilmour might get there but right now he really needs first team football. He gave the ball away way too much. I was surprised Ferguson didnt get the shout there given his promising start in Italy.

Up front, big Dykes is a good outball and a bit of a battering ram, but he lacks that bit of pace necessary to get on the end of things. Ultimately he was the only option available last night which made Shanklands omission very surprising given he has played way more football than Jacob Brown. Not sure whether Brown is any good or not,but I wouldnt judge him on last night as he got little time to make any impact.

Overall, very disappointed in the first half performance which I felt was self inflicted by the line up and tactics, not to mention poor defending for the first goal.

Much more encouraged by the second half performance, just disamayed it took until 2-0 down to sort ourselves out. We should have had at least 1 penalty as I thought both Dykes and McKenna were fouled in the first incident and the Lewis Ferguson one is a stone waller as well with a 3 man tag team taking him out. We probably didnt quite deserve the draw, but I would have taken it.

Overall verdict C-

[mccaughey85]

9 minutes ago, Judith said:

I think Steve Clarke will have learned a lot from last night. The problem for me is that they were lessons he should have already known the answers to.

The first and main one is that 3 at the back doesnt work for us anymore. It makes us too slow and predictable and leaves us a man short in midfield. It was no surprise that we looked much better when we switched to a 4. The gauling thing is that it took us to 2-0 down to accept it and make the change.

Ryan Fraser at wingback will never work apart from against significantly inferior opposition where his defensive duties wont be subject to the same level of inspection. We should have started with Ramsay last night and if the manager didnt think he was up to it, we should have draughted in a replacement when Patterson pulled out. Of course the alternative could have been to play a 4 from the start and play Jack Hendry there.

Next, Grant Hanley has regressed back to pre Euro 2020 Grant Hanley. Unlikely that he will get any better so why not give Porteous another run out to see if he can develop into a higher calibre centre half?

The keeper situation. Happy to see Gordon add to his caps total, but one of the others should have got the second half. I accept that it wouldnt make either of them a better keeper, but it gets the first cap thing out of the way and psychologically allow them to concentrate on their game should the time come when we have to throw them in.

John McGinn has to be played in the advanced role for Scotland at all times. He was a shadow of the player we know he can be in the first half, but his run and finish for the goal were magnificent. He is our most likely goal threat and we should play him as such.

In midfield, we really miss Callum McGregor. Gilmour might get there but right now he really needs first team football. He gave the ball away way too much. I was surprised Ferguson didnt get the shout there given his promising start in Italy.

Up front, big Dykes is a good outball and a bit of a battering ram, but he lacks that bit of pace necessary to get on the end of things. Ultimately he was the only option available last night which made Shanklands omission very surprising given he has played way more football than Jacob Brown. Not sure whether Brown is any good or not,but I wouldnt judge him on last night as he got little time to make any impact.

Overall, very disappointed in the first half performance which I felt was self inflicted by the line up and tactics, not to mention poor defending for the first goal.

Much more encouraged by the second half performance, just disamayed it took until 2-0 down to sort ourselves out. We should have had at least 1 penalty as I thought both Dykes and McKenna were fouled in the first incident and the Lewis Ferguson one is a stone waller as well with a 3 man tag team taking him out. We probably didnt quite deserve the draw, but I would have taken it.

Overall verdict C-

I agree with most of that analysis however i think hanley played poorly due to the formation and the overall performance of the team. Turkey were waltzing through our midfield and it looked like a tough shift for our centre backs in the first half who were exposed every couple of minutes due to us being so far off the pace. 

I wouldnt start hanley in future but hes a squad option for me and the first half was that poor from our team/midfield that our centre backs deserve a little slack. 

I think the 352 is not working anymore which is strange as we got some success with it early in clarkes reign. Sticking to 451 is my choice for the future but i still think we should be able to play the other formation without looking really terrible.

Either way we need to be alot better come march if we want to qualify.

[ceudmilefailte]

1 hour ago, Orraloon said:

McGinn getting to 15 goals must be a positive. No? Robbo got an "assist" for that one as well. Add that to your stats. 😂

McGinn now has Miller and McCoist in his sights. If he overtakes them it would be a phenomenal achievement. 

You are right, we probably will get some right good humpings in the next Nations League but it's great opportunity for our players to play at that level. And the worst we can be for the following campaign is in League B. If that sort of experience can help us to qualify for the EUROs and the next WC then it's all worthwhile.

That about sums it up, the only positive was the goal.

I'm glad we are in the top group in the nations league, and hopefully it will be a bigger deal to us than some of the bigger nations who seem to see it as a competition to experiment in. Playing in the top tier will experiment enough for  us!

[Diamond Scot]

A few takeaways for me from last night. 

1) Doesnt matter what players or formation we play if mentality isnt there. All our best performances come when we are high tempo, quick press and no respect. Everytime we come out slow or measured we just surrender the game. Theres so many examples and they have a mix of personal and formation.

2) Dykes is nowhere the level of Adams as a starter however weirdly suits the sub role perfectly.

3) Controversial but McGinn continues to be poor for us however importantly he flicks a switch and scores or creates from nowhere. This shouldnt airbrush that he needs to improve his general play though.

4) We go aimlessly long far too often

5) We have far more spirir than years gone by. Largely pointless trip, very few call offs, poor performance but still giving 100% at the end to tryband sneak a draw.

[Kirk]

8 hours ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

Robertson putting crosses into the box for Salah, Diaz, Firminho and Jota is a completely different thing to putting a cross into the box for Lyndon Dykes on his own.

 

Far too many of our players were way off it last night.

Gordon to me looks just about done, but the manager clearly does not trust his back ups...its a huge problem.

Tierney looked the rustiest I've ever seen him, while Gilmour looked like a competition winner. Ramsay is clearly not ready yet.

Jacob Brown being flung up front was embarrassing, but hey that's what the McBurnie haters want.

The point is he isnt even able to get the ball in. He tries too hard.
Tierney and Gilmour both lacking regular game time and it shows yeah.
Brown can fuck off

7 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

Problem is we dont really have any better wingers than fraser. Maybe this doak lad might turn into a star but until then fraser is our best bet. He did assist twice for dykes goals against ukraine and he was playing out of position last night.

Maybe morgan and burke should be given chances on the wings. Especially morgan as i think he could do well for us.

We dont really need wingers though, we have full backs that are great at getting forward and getting the ball in.

[Clyde1998]

Worth noting: Greece drew 2-2 in Malta, Hungary had the same outcome in Luxembourg, Austria required an 87th minute winner in Andorra. I'm not sure we can read too much into results from this break.

Hopefully we'll've learned from this game and have players back come our game against Cyprus. I can't imagine Fraser, Hanley, Gilmour, Dykes or Armstrong will start if we have our strongest squad available; I would expect a return to the 4-2-3-1 system too.

[Hertsscot]

Just saw the highlights today. How on earth we didn't get at least one penalty is completely beyond me.

[ceudmilefailte]

8 hours ago, Hertsscot said:

Just saw the highlights today. How on earth we didn't get at least one penalty is completely beyond me.

How they only scored 2 is completely beyond me.

[todd]

23 hours ago, Kirk said:

Fraser is awful, he "barley" every turns up for Scotland and as i said there's a reason hes no longer getting a game at newcastle, hes no good enough for them and Howe knows it. He will be a journeyman player his whole career and a bit like ollie burke will somehow manage good moves even though realistically hes pish!

If you read what i said about Robertson properly I didnt specifically blame other players, he tries far too hard instead of just doing what hes good at. 

Aye, but "wheat" a player! 😁

[Orraloon]

39 minutes ago, todd said:

Aye, but "wheat" a player! 😁

More like the "chaff", if you ask me. 😉

[daviebee]

13 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

More like the "chaff", if you ask me. 😉

Should've hoofed him after his cereal call-offs.

[scotlad]

On 11/17/2022 at 12:07 PM, Kirk said:

Fraser is awful, he barley every turns up for Scotland and as i said there's a reason hes no longer getting a game at newcastle, hes no good enough for them and Howe knows it. He will be a journeyman player his whole career and a bit like ollie burke will somehow manage good moves even though realistically hes pish!

If you read what i said about Robertson properly I didnt specifically blame other players, he tries far too hard instead of just doing what hes good at. 

Just a glance at Fraser's career stats show he's a more effective player than Burke, who offers pace but very little else.  Not getting a game for a team who are third in the EPL doesn't equate to pish by Scotland standards; I'm sure he could get more game time at a team lower down the table.  Not ideal, but until Ben Doak comes to fruition (which he surely will) and/or Mikey Johnston properly kicks on, he's probably the best player of his type available.

I didn't say you were blaming other players.  But if Robertson is trying too hard it suggests it's because he's trying to overcompensate.  I was basically agreeing with you by saying his deliveries weren't as effective as they are when he plays for Liverpool.

[scotlad]

23 hours ago, Orraloon said:

McGinn getting to 15 goals must be a positive. No? Robbo got an "assist" for that one as well. Add that to your stats. 😂

McGinn now has Miller and McCoist in his sights. If he overtakes them it would be a phenomenal achievement. 

You are right, we probably will get some right good humpings in the next Nations League but it's great opportunity for our players to play at that level. And the worst we can be for the following campaign is in League B. If that sort of experience can help us to qualify for the EUROs and the next WC then it's all worthwhile.

If we get tanked in the Nations League - which I think is a distinct possibility - won't that in turn affect our seeding for the qualifying groups, e.g. moving down from Pot B to Pot C?  At least if we'd remained in League B we'd have stood a much better chance of winning a group and securing a play-off (assuming they use the same method as last time).

As for experience, most of current players are at or are approaching their peak, so unless Clarke decides to freshen up the squad (which is something he appears loathe to do) then it's doubtful how much more they'll actually learn.

[Orraloon]

1 hour ago, daviebee said:

Should've hoofed him after his cereal call-offs.

That would have sent him away in the sugar puff.

[Orraloon]

1 hour ago, scotlad said:

If we get tanked in the Nations League - which I think is a distinct possibility - won't that in turn affect our seeding for the qualifying groups, e.g. moving down from Pot B to Pot C?  At least if we'd remained in League B we'd have stood a much better chance of winning a group and securing a play-off (assuming they use the same method as last time).

As for experience, most of current players are at or are approaching their peak, so unless Clarke decides to freshen up the squad (which is something he appears loathe to do) then it's doubtful how much more they'll actually learn.

I haven't checked but I'm guessing that they haven't yet decided how they will do the seeding for next time round. But if it is the same as this time, then every team in League A were seeded in Pot 1 or Pot 2. A team could only go down to pot 3 if they started off in League B. That was another possible advantage of getting a draw with Ukraine in our last game. 

Again I haven't checked, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is the youngest squad we have had in decades. And we have got some really good prospects who are still under 23.