Loss of form/ lack of games/ Injuries - Difficult squad or an opportunity?

[sandyb]

In the run up to the WC friendly, we seem to have a lot of out of form/ lack of games or injury for our key players.

Teirney - not a regular

Patterson - injured

McGinn - out of form

Gilmour - cant get a kick

McTomminay - not a regular - allegedly!

Soutar - injured

Fraser - Not a regular

Hen - keeps having to change teams to get a game

Ralston - not a regular

Robertson - Injury and just coming back/ lack of form

Jack - Injured

Adams - carrying a hamstring injury

Hickey - injured

FFS

Edited October 26, 2022 by sandyb

[ErsatzThistle]

Didn't take too long for someone to resort to doom and gloom did it ?

These things happen. It should also be remembered that some of our players have put in good performances for Scotland despite limited game time or questionable form at their clubs.

This upcoming game against Turkey is also a chance for players like Ryan Porteous, Lewis Ferguson and possibly also Alan Campbell, Calvin Ramsay and Dominic Hyam to show what they are capable of.

[sandyb]

Doom and gloom my arse. Just a reflection of the current situation  surrounding our key players. Note the opportunity part of the post…. Reading helps!

Edited October 26, 2022 by sandyb

[ErsatzThistle]

1 hour ago, sandyb said:

Doom and gloom my arse. Just a reflection of the current situation  surrounding our key players. Note the opportunity part of the post…. Reading helps!

Came across as very doom and gloom to me. Also helps if you can get the players names right.

The game against Turkey is a friendly match and not a competitive game. After that we won't be playing again until March next year.

There is nothing to panic about.

Against Turkey, I would like to see Liam Kelly given forty five minutes in goal and Calvin Ramsay given twenty or thirty minutes off the bench. Maybe also a start for Lewis Ferguson.

I also would not select Kenny McLean or Grant Hanley any longer. I really do think we need to move on from them.

[ceudmilefailte]

35 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Came across as very doom and gloom to me. Also helps if you can get the players names right.

The game against Turkey is a friendly match and not a competitive game. After that we won't be playing again until March next year.

There is nothing to panic about.

Against Turkey, I would like to see Liam Kelly given forty five minutes in goal and Calvin Ramsay given twenty or thirty minutes off the bench. Maybe also a start for Lewis Ferguson.

I also would not select Kenny McLean or Grant Hanley any longer. I really do think we need to move on from them.

McLean and Hanley should both be in the squad, but don't see any reason to give them much game time. I would imagine both will be in the squads for our next competitive games based on experience alone.

I wouldn't worry about any of our players that aren't starting regularly, they are all fit enough to be getting some game time at their clubs.

I am starting to have doubts about Jack Hendry again though.

Given the choice of Hanley or Hendy against Haaland...................

 

[ErsatzThistle]

7 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

McLean and Hanley should both be in the squad, but don't see any reason to give them much game time.

It's better to take along inexperienced or uncapped players in that case for the experience rather than unnecessary ageing players unlikely to get a game. That was Craig Brown's attitude for a long time and it was a big mistake on his part.

Edited October 26, 2022 by ErsatzThistle

[Diamond Scot]

This is a perfect opportunity to have a squad made up of starting 11 type players with the rest of the squad either young or having a look at new players.

I feel that a mistake we often make in friendlies is we go from one extreme to the other. Either a squad full of untested which then looks like a B squad and therefore very hard to judge performances or we stick to tried and tested and therefore dont learn anything.

Id like to see Tierney, McKenna and Hendry called up alongside Porteous and Hyam.

Robertson and Doig LB. Ramsay and Ralston RB.

McTomminay, Gilmour, McGinn, Ferguson, Anderson, Campbell, 

Adams, Dykes, Brown, Fraser up front

Leaves space for a couple of others that ive not thought of.

[ErsatzThistle]

5 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

This is a perfect opportunity to have a squad made up of starting 11 type players with the rest of the squad either young or having a look at new players.

I feel that a mistake we often make in friendlies is we go from one extreme to the other. Either a squad full of untested which then looks like a B squad and therefore very hard to judge performances or we stick to tried and tested and therefore dont learn anything.

Id like to see Tierney, McKenna and Hendry called up alongside Porteous and Hyam.

Robertson and Doig LB. Ramsay and Ralston RB.

McTomminay, Gilmour, McGinn, Ferguson, Anderson, Campbell, 

Adams, Dykes, Brown, Fraser up front

Leaves space for a couple of others that ive not thought of.

Stuart Armstrong and Ryan Christie too 👍

Give Craig Gordon the first half but then give Liam Kelly the full second half.

[Johnnyshaker]

10 hours ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Give Craig Gordon the first half but then give Liam Kelly the full second half.

I'd be disappointed if Craig Gordon started to be honest, If it was me I'd give Kelly the full 90.

You need to get a good blend in friendles as @Diamond Scot alluded to, a mix of starters, new faces and fringe players. E.g. IMO it would be a waste of a trip to start with Gordon, Patterson/Hickey, Tierney, Robertson, Hanley, Hendry, McT, Armstrong, Christie, McGinn, Adams.

But having a starting line up of something like; Kelly, Hickey, Robertson, Hendry, Porteous, McKenna, Gilmour, Ferguson, McGinn, Anderson, Brown would offer the chance to see Kelly and Anderson, Brown get a start, a bit more of Porteous and Ferguson, etc. Then when the subs start you bring on Hyam for McKenna, Doig for Robertson, Campbell as well maybe.

[Clyde1998]

2 hours ago, Johnnyshaker said:

I'd be disappointed if Craig Gordon started to be honest, If it was me I'd give Kelly the full 90.

You need to get a good blend in friendles as @Diamond Scot alluded to, a mix of starters, new faces and fringe players. E.g. IMO it would be a waste of a trip to start with Gordon, Patterson/Hickey, Tierney, Robertson, Hanley, Hendry, McT, Armstrong, Christie, McGinn, Adams.

But having a starting line up of something like; Kelly, Hickey, Robertson, Hendry, Porteous, McKenna, Gilmour, Ferguson, McGinn, Anderson, Brown would offer the chance to see Kelly and Anderson, Brown get a start, a bit more of Porteous and Ferguson, etc. Then when the subs start you bring on Hyam for McKenna, Doig for Robertson, Campbell as well maybe.

I agree it would be pointless to play the same team for this game as we've been playing in the recent Nations League matches, especially with certain players either reaching the end of their international career or carrying knocks. I'd rather rest a lot of the players who've had injuries to allow them to have the World Cup off to recover properly ahead of the qualifiers in the new year instead of risking them getting injuries which would keep them out of the qualifiers in March.

I'd be happy to see a team like:

• Kelly
• Ramsay - Porteous - Hyam - Doig
• Campbell - Ferguson
• Brown - Turnbull - Wright
• Stewart

Defenders like Jason Kerr and Tom McIntyre would be interesting to look at, while it could be a good opportunity to see what Lewis Morgan, Ryan Gauld and possibly Oliver Burke can do.

I think this should be taken as an opportunity to look at the options which haven't been in the squad or haven't had much international game time who could be important for us in a few years.

[N4Footsoldier]

I wouldn't think about our current 1st team in the context of this game. Most of them will be glad of the break.

This will be a B team game for both teams masquerading as a full international.

[ProudScot]

1 hour ago, Clyde1998 said:

I agree it would be pointless to play the same team for this game as we've been playing in the recent Nations League matches, especially with certain players either reaching the end of their international career or carrying knocks. I'd rather rest a lot of the players who've had injuries to allow them to have the World Cup off to recover properly ahead of the qualifiers in the new year instead of risking them getting injuries which would keep them out of the qualifiers in March.

I'd be happy to see a team like:

• Kelly
• Ramsay - Porteous - Hyam - Doig
• Campbell - Ferguson
• Brown - Turnbull - Wright
• Stewart

Defenders like Jason Kerr and Tom McIntyre would be interesting to look at, while it could be a good opportunity to see what Lewis Morgan, Ryan Gauld and possibly Oliver Burke can do.

I think this should be taken as an opportunity to look at the options which haven't been in the squad or haven't had much international game time who could be important for us in a few years.

Turnbull shouldn’t be near the squad.

Fair enough positions like GK where we have no options we need McCrorie & this may actually be a game to give him a cap or a half etc.

Turnbull should have his place taken by the likes of Ryan Gauld or Liam Henderson for this game. 

[Diamond Scot]

2 hours ago, Clyde1998 said:

I agree it would be pointless to play the same team for this game as we've been playing in the recent Nations League matches, especially with certain players either reaching the end of their international career or carrying knocks. I'd rather rest a lot of the players who've had injuries to allow them to have the World Cup off to recover properly ahead of the qualifiers in the new year instead of risking them getting injuries which would keep them out of the qualifiers in March.

I'd be happy to see a team like:

• Kelly
• Ramsay - Porteous - Hyam - Doig
• Campbell - Ferguson
• Brown - Turnbull - Wright
• Stewart

Defenders like Jason Kerr and Tom McIntyre would be interesting to look at, while it could be a good opportunity to see what Lewis Morgan, Ryan Gauld and possibly Oliver Burke can do.

I think this should be taken as an opportunity to look at the options which haven't been in the squad or haven't had much international game time who could be important for us in a few years.

That line up is far too experimental imo and actually lessens the benefit. As @Johnnyshaker says, you need a good blend for these games. None of the names in your line up are considered 1st team players so you could easily have a situation where Ramsay doesnt play great and then management have no way of knowing whether that was him being out of his depth or partially down to playing alongside another debutant.

Id be happy with Kelly or another starting as I think we need a backup GK with some gametime.

Id then have maybe 3 or 4 other inexperienced / debutant type players starting which would then leave 6 first team regulars. 

Then you can take Robertson off for Doig with 20 mins to play, swap McTomminay for Campbell at half time etc.

[ErsatzThistle]

It would appear that quite a few of us want to see Calvin Ramsay involved, let's hope he is 👍

Klopp said during the week that he has been impressed with not only Ramsay's skills in training but also his attitude. Good to hear.

[Diamond Scot]

47 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said:

It would appear that quite a few of us want to see Calvin Ramsay involved, let's hope he is 👍

Klopp said during the week that he has been impressed with not only Ramsay's skills in training but also his attitude. Good to hear.

All things being normal I think it would be far too early to have Ramsay involved but given Hickey and Patterson are both injured it only leaves us Ralston. 

Ralston to start (personally im not a fan) with Ramsay to get experience being in the squad would be fine for me. Even if he doesnt actually get any gametime.

[ErsatzThistle]

9 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

All things being normal I think it would be far too early to have Ramsay involved but given Hickey and Patterson are both injured it only leaves us Ralston. 

Ralston to start (personally im not a fan) with Ramsay to get experience being in the squad would be fine for me. Even if he doesnt actually get any gametime.

I hope Clarke is thinking of the future and calls up Ramsay rather than Cadden or McGinn or O'Donnell to fill this temporary vacancy in the right back spot.

[ceudmilefailte]

2 hours ago, ProudScot said:

Turnbull shouldn’t be near the squad.

Fair enough positions like GK where we have no options we need McCrorie & this may actually be a game to give him a cap or a half etc.

Turnbull should have his place taken by the likes of Ryan Gauld or Liam Henderson for this game. 

No idea why you would want Liam Henderson in the squad other than the fact he plays in Serie A.

 

[ErsatzThistle]

Saw a mention of Ross Stewart further up. He won't be playing, he's injured.

Tony Mowbray also said recently it will be December, perhaps as late as Christmas, before Stewart is back in action for Sunderland.

[ProudScot]

4 hours ago, ceudmilefailte said:

No idea why you would want Liam Henderson in the squad other than the fact he plays in Serie A.

 

Watched a couple of his games and he played well. 

Id pick a CM starting every week in Serie A over one who never starts in the SPL

[ProudScot]

Shankland again ⚽️

[Clyde1998]

On 10/27/2022 at 3:34 PM, Diamond Scot said:

That line up is far too experimental imo and actually lessens the benefit. As @Johnnyshaker says, you need a good blend for these games. None of the names in your line up are considered 1st team players so you could easily have a situation where Ramsay doesnt play great and then management have no way of knowing whether that was him being out of his depth or partially down to playing alongside another debutant.

Id be happy with Kelly or another starting as I think we need a backup GK with some gametime.

Id then have maybe 3 or 4 other inexperienced / debutant type players starting which would then leave 6 first team regulars. 

Then you can take Robertson off for Doig with 20 mins to play, swap McTomminay for Campbell at half time etc.

Possibly, the only thing being this is our only friendly prior to the qualifiers and with the amount of first choice players we've had injured, I wouldn't want to risk anything. I think we only get six subs in international friendlies, so perhaps a handful of regulars could start and get replaced as the game goes on.

We will end up having friendlies on (or around) the 11th September (after Cyprus away) and 15th October (after Spain away) next year - so perhaps some of the younger players could be included in the squad for experience before making their first starts in those matches (assuming they don't play prior to then).

On 10/27/2022 at 7:36 PM, ErsatzThistle said:

Saw a mention of Ross Stewart further up. He won't be playing, he's injured.

Tony Mowbray also said recently it will be December, perhaps as late as Christmas, before Stewart is back in action for Sunderland.

Ah. I thought he'd returned, but obviously not. I imagine McBurnie will be back in the squad then, with the form he's been on then.

[scotlad]

On 10/26/2022 at 1:39 PM, sandyb said:

In the run up to the WC friendly, we seem to have a lot of out of form/ lack of games or injury for our key players.

Teirney - not a regular

Patterson - injured

McGinn - out of form

Gilmour - cant get a kick

McTomminay - not a regular - allegedly!

Soutar - injured

Fraser - Not a regular

Hen - keeps having to change teams to get a game

Ralston - not a regular

Robertson - Injury and just coming back/ lack of form

Jack - Injured

Adams - carrying a hamstring injury

Hickey - injured

FFS

I'm glad it's not just me who's concerned about the lack of game time some of our EPL players are seeing. This weekend Christie, Gilmour, McGinn and McTominay - on paper a more than respectable looking midfield - all started on the bench, ditto Tierney. Christie and Gilmour didn't even get on the park.

Form is temporary though and injuries and suspensions happen; hopefully the picture looks a bit better come March. 

[scotlad]

On 10/27/2022 at 4:54 PM, ErsatzThistle said:

I hope Clarke is thinking of the future and calls up Ramsay rather than Cadden or McGinn or O'Donnell to fill this temporary vacancy in the right back spot.

Surely not, that's Craig Brown-esque - and not in a good way!

Seemingly Patterson came off the bench for Everton yesterday so hopefully he'll be able to participate.

[ErsatzThistle]

5 minutes ago, scotlad said:

Surely not, that's Craig Brown-esque - and not in a good way!

Seemingly Patterson came off the bench for Everton yesterday so hopefully he'll be able to participate.

Aye, very good news Patterson's back earlier than expected from injury 👍

I'd really like to see Ferguson given a start in central midfield in this upcoming game.

[ProudScot]

41 minutes ago, scotlad said:

Surely not, that's Craig Brown-esque - and not in a good way!

Seemingly Patterson came off the bench for Everton yesterday so hopefully he'll be able to participate.

It’s also Steve Clarke esque as he’s called up all 3 of those guys in the last 12-18 months