England - Page 2 - TA specific - Tartan Army Message Board Jump to content

England


oneforcolin

Recommended Posts

5 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

i’m the furthest thing from an England supporter and I’m not trying to excuse anything. They clearly don’t value the Nations League along with a lot of the other higher ranked teams. Have a look at the league A tables if you don’t believe me. 

I don’t think for a minute that anyone involved with England wanted to get relegated. They probably thought they could just turn up and coast to at least second or third in the group but Hungary and Italy had other ideas.

Sadly England will very likely be in Germany in 2024 whether they are in pot 2 or not and they know that. 

I just find the chants aimed at England a bit embarrassing when they will be at the World Cup and we didn’t qualify yet again and there’s also a very good chance we will still be in league B with them in the next nations league. We are basically laughing at them for being in a potentially better position than us. Maybe if we do secure promotion we’d have something to slag them for but not yet.

Sorry that just not tally. They won three games in their group in the previous Nations League beating Belgium and Iceland twice and the first Nations League they topped a league containing Spain and Croatia. They lost in the semis to Netherlands. I'd get your point if they had lost every game they have played in the tournament. Same with the calibre of the tournament winners who have been Portugal and France.

I was not arguing about whether or not they'll make Euro 2024 - I am certain they will too. Slagging rivals off happens regardless of who is the better team as I said earlier. United fans slagging off Liverpool is a prime example when Liverpool have been far more successful than United lately.

Of course everyone can sing if they want or do not want. It is all a bit of fun and we have been on the receiving end from their fans for years so payback is way overdue. Relegation will be hurting their egos as you could tell from the boos they are getting at matches just now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, dan cake said:

Agreed. Some folks obsession with England is cringe worthy, real chip on both shoulders stuff. When they lose have a chuckle then move on, they’re only the enemy when we’re play them for me

Look things were 100 times worse a decade or so ago. Every match would have an anti-England chant or Jimmy Hill being a poof etc and Saturday night is the first anti-England chant I have heard at a Scotland match in a long time. You could hardly call that record as having chips on both shoulders.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Sorry that just not tally. They won three games in their group in the previous Nations League beating Belgium and Iceland twice and the first Nations League they topped a league containing Spain and Croatia. They lost in the semis to Netherlands. I'd get your point if they had lost every game they have played in the tournament. Same with the calibre of the tournament winners who have been Portugal and France.

I was not arguing about whether or not they'll make Euro 2024 - I am certain they will too. Slagging rivals off happens regardless of who is the better team as I said earlier. United fans slagging off Liverpool is a prime example when Liverpool have been far more successful than United lately.

Of course everyone can sing if they want or do not want. It is all a bit of fun and we have been on the receiving end from their fans for years so payback is way overdue. Relegation will be hurting their egos as you could tell from the boos they are getting at matches just now.

Whether you think it tallies or not doesn’t change the fact that they romped their qualifying group and have done nothing in their Nations League group. Do you really think Hungary would have pumped them 0-4 in a qualifier? 

I also wasn’t talking about previous Nations League campaigns. I am talking about this one. Kevin De Bruyne and a couple of others whose names escape me have recently stated that they don’t rate the Nations League. France almost got relegated, Spain lost at home to Switzerland on Saturday and Germany finished 3rd in their group. 

The top teams don’t care as much about the Nations League as teams at our level do as they don’t see it as another way to qualify for tournaments as they pretty much qualify every two years anyway. That much is pretty obvious to me. 

That doesn’t mean the England/Germany/Spain etc players don’t want to win the games they are playing in but motivation is a huge factor and if they don’t have that and, in England’s case, have also suffered a dip in form then hungry (excuse the pun) teams like Hungary can take advantage. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

Whether you think it tallies or not doesn’t change the fact that they romped their qualifying group and have done nothing in their Nations League group. Do you really think Hungary would have pumped them 0-4 in a qualifier? 

I also wasn’t talking about previous Nations League campaigns. I am talking about this one. Kevin De Bruyne and a couple of others whose names escape me have recently stated that they don’t rate the Nations League. France almost got relegated, Spain lost at home to Switzerland on Saturday and Germany finished 3rd in their group. 

The top teams don’t care as much about the Nations League as teams at our level do as they don’t see it as another way to qualify for tournaments as they pretty much qualify every two years anyway. That much is pretty obvious to me. 

That doesn’t mean the England/Germany/Spain etc players don’t want to win the games they are playing in but motivation is a huge factor and if they don’t have that and, in England’s case, have also suffered a dip in form then hungry (excuse the pun) teams like Hungary can take advantage. 

 

I'll offer you my thoughts on their relegation. They have come up against teams with real motivation. Hungary are no mugs anymore and England did fail to beat them at home in the World Cup qualifiers. Italy have been fired up by not qualifying for the World Cup and well, there are no 'friendlies' between Germany and England. England came into this tournament having qualified for the World Cup and early doors were too relaxed and a thumping at home to Hungary (granted they had two players sent off) hit confidence. They've been trying of that I have no doubt but with more poor results confidence has drained even more. Lack of hunger or lethargy perhaps at the start but now things are spiralling. They want results and am sure they'd have wanted revenge against Italy for their Euros defeat where they felt they were robbed.

Anyway no way will their fans feel so cocky going to Qatar after their last few results and performances. They have all the momentum of a bicycle with triangular wheels going downhill.

As to your point about the big teams not caring about Nations League as it does not offer route to qualification that may be true but it does offer a chance to win a tournament and Portugal and France (two top notch sides) have cared enough to win it. This time around, in any case, it should matter how they do results-wise/performance-wise more so because of the upcoming World Cup. Every team wants to be going into that tournament with momentum and a feelgood factor. England certainly do not have that.

Edited by Caledonian Craig
Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

Whether you think it tallies or not doesn’t change the fact that they romped their qualifying group and have done nothing in their Nations League group. Do you really think Hungary would have pumped them 0-4 in a qualifier? 

I also wasn’t talking about previous Nations League campaigns. I am talking about this one. Kevin De Bruyne and a couple of others whose names escape me have recently stated that they don’t rate the Nations League. France almost got relegated, Spain lost at home to Switzerland on Saturday and Germany finished 3rd in their group. 

The top teams don’t care as much about the Nations League as teams at our level do as they don’t see it as another way to qualify for tournaments as they pretty much qualify every two years anyway. That much is pretty obvious to me. 

That doesn’t mean the England/Germany/Spain etc players don’t want to win the games they are playing in but motivation is a huge factor and if they don’t have that and, in England’s case, have also suffered a dip in form then hungry (excuse the pun) teams like Hungary can take advantage. 

I know it cant happen but if England had drawn Ukraine ,Ireland and Armenia this time round would their TV and gate revenues be the same. 

No idea what financial incentives are in place for the players but you would imagine top players would want to compete against the very best.

Think we might start to see the big countries taking this a bit more seriously pretty quickly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/25/2022 at 5:59 PM, Texas Pete said:

They clearly don’t take it that seriously and they’re not the only ones. France and Germany are currently third in their groups and Spain may well finish 3rd. 

Belgium could possibly win their group but they’ll need to go to Amsterdam and win by at least 3 goals to have a chance. Kevin de Bruyne has stated recently he thinks the Nations League is a waste of time. If he thinks that I wonder what his feelings on friendlies are. 

They don't take it seriously, yet Southgate is fielding his strongest possible teams and there were players who looked on the verge of tears after getting beat on Friday. 🤨

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To be fair, the anti England chants had pretty much disappeared from our "repertoire" for a number of years now. I dont think the younger fans in our support base really cared that much probably due to the fact that the home internationals werent in their consciousness. I think there are a couple of reasons for their re-appearance and that is us having played them competitively a few times recently and the fact that their supporters have felt us worthy of their disdain. Personally, I prefer us singing "Scotland get battered everywhere we go" if we are winning handsomely, as I like the irony of it, but given how piss poor they have been in their Nations League Group, I can see why many found it too good an opportunity to resist.

There was a time we were an irrelevance to England fans, and although Id prefer us to get away from measuring ourselves constantly against them, part of me likes the fact that it would irk them big time for us to be in the league above them.

Also, if we are both in pot 2 we cant draw them in the qualifiers.

Edited by Judith
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, scotlad said:

They don't take it seriously, yet Southgate is fielding his strongest possible teams and there were players who looked on the verge of tears after getting beat on Friday. 🤨

On the verge of tears? Exaggerate much? 

No professional players like losing. Not even friendlies. Doesn’t mean they think these matches are as important as qualifiers and to be fair to the top teams who qualify all the time they aren’t.

Southgate is obviously using these games as early World Cup warm ups. All he really cares about is doing well at the World Cup. 

Why on earth are we discussing England on here anyway? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, ceudmilefailte said:

I know it cant happen but if England had drawn Ukraine ,Ireland and Armenia this time round would their TV and gate revenues be the same. 

No idea what financial incentives are in place for the players but you would imagine top players would want to compete against the very best.

Think we might start to see the big countries taking this a bit more seriously pretty quickly.

I doubt they’ll be on much compared to their club wages but yeah I would imagine getting relegated and playing in league B next time will be a bit of a shock to them. I doubt they’ll care that much though as long as they qualify for the Euro 2024 and next World Cup. 

Italy are on the verge of winning their group but I’m sure most of their players, management team, fatcats at the Italian FA and supporters would happily be relegated into league B if it meant they were going to the World Cup. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Texas Pete said:

On the verge of tears? Exaggerate much? 

No professional players like losing. Not even friendlies. Doesn’t mean they think these matches are as important as qualifiers and to be fair to the top teams who qualify all the time they aren’t.

Southgate is obviously using these games as early World Cup warm ups. All he really cares about is doing well at the World Cup. 

Why on earth are we discussing England on here anyway? 

No, not really, some of their faces were absolutely tripping them at the final whistle on Friday, and no wonder. They knew the result meant relegation to League B and possibly Pot 2 for the qualifiers next month, meaning their route Germany just got that bit harder.

They certainly took the Nations League when they won their group and qualified for the final three years ago. Two victories away winning their first major trophy in decades.

Southgate could have treated the game like the dead rubber it was and fielded some fringe players but he didn't, probably, in part, because he knows his job is in jeopardy - bookies are already taking odds on the next England manager, and it can't be because of their performances in the WC qualifiers because they won their group and qualified.

Harry Kane and co certainly looked like they were taking it seriously when they went 3-2 up tonight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, scotlad said:

No, not really, some of their faces were absolutely tripping them at the final whistle on Friday, and no wonder. They knew the result meant relegation to League B and possibly Pot 2 for the qualifiers next month, meaning their route Germany just got that bit harder.

They certainly took the Nations League when they won their group and qualified for the final three years ago. Two victories away winning their first major trophy in decades.

Southgate could have treated the game like the dead rubber it was and fielded some fringe players but he didn't, probably, in part, because he knows his job is in jeopardy - bookies are already taking odds on the next England manager, and it can't be because of their performances in the WC qualifiers because they won their group and qualified.

Harry Kane and co certainly looked like they were taking it seriously when they went 3-2 up tonight.

England would take any game against Germany seriously. 

If you think any of the top ranked countries think the nations league is as important as qualifiers then you’re deluded. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

51 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

England would take any game against Germany seriously. 

If you think any of the top ranked countries think the nations league is as important as qualifiers then you’re deluded. 

Pity more of their fans didn't, lots of empty seats at Wembley tonight by the looks of it!

They possibly don't regard them as important as qualifiers but that doesn't mean they don't give a shit about them or take them seriously.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, scotlad said:

Pity more of their fans didn't, lots of empty seats at Wembley tonight by the looks of it!

They possibly don't regard them as important as qualifiers but that doesn't mean they don't give a shit about them or take them seriously.

I was referring to the players not the supporters. 

Try using Google to find out what the top ranked nations think of the nations league. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Texas Pete said:

I was referring to the players not the supporters. 

Try using Google to find out what the top ranked nations think of the nations league. 

Which players are you referring to? 

I know Kevin de Bruyne was having a moan but couldn't see anyone else.

The Italians looked quite happy to get to the semis as did the Dutch. I can't imagine England are too happy knowing they'll have to miz it with the pleb teams for a year, their fans are definitely not happy. Every single one I know wants Southgate gone and they don't think England will do well at the world cup.

I've definitely come to enjoy the nations league. It's better than friendlies, that's for sure.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

Which players are you referring to? 

I know Kevin de Bruyne was having a moan but couldn't see anyone else.

The Italians looked quite happy to get to the semis as did the Dutch. I can't imagine England are too happy knowing they'll have to miz it with the pleb teams for a year, their fans are definitely not happy. Every single one I know wants Southgate gone and they don't think England will do well at the world cup.

I've definitely come to enjoy the nations league. It's better than friendlies, that's for sure.

 

Van Dijk and Jurgen Klopp (although he would) have moaned about it fairly recently. 

I think the vast majority of people prefer it to friendlies but a lot of people from countries that qualify for major tournaments all the time don’t seem to value it as much as us. 

England supporters are unhappy that their team have went several games without a win and almost 500 minutes without a goal from open play. They would be raging about that and would want Southgate sacked if they had done this in five friendlies in a row prior to the World Cup. They will very likely get promoted back to league A next time as well.

Italy would happily swap places with England and be going to the World Cup and League B.

Personally I think the Nations League is the best thing to happen to international football since the Euros went to 16 teams. We probably wouldn’t have qualified for Euro 2020 if it hadn’t existed and if we could get promoted to League A and get into pot 2 for the next euros draw I will be ecstatic. Our current world ranking would not get us into pot 2 so the NL is massive for us. It’s not massive for teams like Germany, France, Belgium and even England. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

Van Dijk and Jurgen Klopp (although he would) have moaned about it fairly recently. 

I think the vast majority of people prefer it to friendlies but a lot of people from countries that qualify for major tournaments all the time don’t seem to value it as much as us. 

England supporters are unhappy that their team have went several games without a win and almost 500 minutes without a goal from open play. They would be raging about that and would want Southgate sacked if they had done this in five friendlies in a row prior to the World Cup. They will very likely get promoted back to league A next time as well.

Italy would happily swap places with England and be going to the World Cup and League B.

Personally I think the Nations League is the best thing to happen to international football since the Euros went to 16 teams. We probably wouldn’t have qualified for Euro 2020 if it hadn’t existed and if we could get promoted to League A and get into pot 2 for the next euros draw I will be ecstatic. Our current world ranking would not get us into pot 2 so the NL is massive for us. It’s not massive for teams like Germany, France, Belgium and even England. 

If England don’t care about the NL, why are they playing all their best players in it. Why not just play a bunch of also rans?

And are you suggesting that that those players who take the field aren’t trying to win football matches. Have Southgate’s pre match team talks consisted of “Right lads. We’re England so we’re not arsed about this. I don’t want to see you trying out there tonight. Fuck the fans that have paid money to watch us. We’re too good for this shite”.

What a load of absolute bollocks. England have lost/not won these games because a) they are fuckin honkin at the minute and b) because they generally lose when they play against the big boys. Simple as that. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Marky said:

If England don’t care about the NL, why are they playing all their best players in it. Why not just play a bunch of also rans?

And are you suggesting that that those players who take the field aren’t trying to win football matches. Have Southgate’s pre match team talks consisted of “Right lads. We’re England so we’re not arsed about this. I don’t want to see you trying out there tonight. Fuck the fans that have paid money to watch us. We’re too good for this shite”.

What a load of absolute bollocks. England have lost/not won these games because a) they are fuckin honkin at the minute and b) because they generally lose when they play against the big boys. Simple as that. 

You realise England have a World Cup coming up in a matter of weeks? They tend to get a fairly strong turn out for even friendlies anyway.

I have never suggested they didn’t try to or want to win their nations league games. I have only stated that they are not as bothered about the nations league as they are about qualifiers (the same as the other top ranked teams) and will not be too bothered about getting relegated and the people that are taking great joy in the fact they have been relegated are a bit sad.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Texas Pete said:

Van Dijk and Jurgen Klopp (although he would) have moaned about it fairly recently. 

I think the vast majority of people prefer it to friendlies but a lot of people from countries that qualify for major tournaments all the time don’t seem to value it as much as us. 

England supporters are unhappy that their team have went several games without a win and almost 500 minutes without a goal from open play. They would be raging about that and would want Southgate sacked if they had done this in five friendlies in a row prior to the World Cup. They will very likely get promoted back to league A next time as well.

Italy would happily swap places with England and be going to the World Cup and League B.

Personally I think the Nations League is the best thing to happen to international football since the Euros went to 16 teams. We probably wouldn’t have qualified for Euro 2020 if it hadn’t existed and if we could get promoted to League A and get into pot 2 for the next euros draw I will be ecstatic. Our current world ranking would not get us into pot 2 so the NL is massive for us. It’s not massive for teams like Germany, France, Belgium and even England. 

It would be refreshing if a journalist told Klopp this is the price you pay for being successful...... your team tends to be filled with superstar internationals and because you get to the latter stages f tournaments, you will have more games. They also have massive squads to deal with this.

England supporters would bouncing if England made to the final of the NL and you can bet they would celebrate wildly if they actually won it. 

Italy would swap places in a heartbeat, I am not sure why that is relevant to them looking pretty happy at being in the final 4

Totally agree re the nations, its a vocal minority of modern footballer cry babies who seem to have issue with it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

It would be refreshing if a journalist told Klopp this is the price you pay for being successful...... your team tends to be filled with superstar internationals and because you get to the latter stages f tournaments, you will have more games. They also have massive squads to deal with this.

England supporters would bouncing if England made to the final of the NL and you can bet they would celebrate wildly if they actually won it. 

Italy would swap places in a heartbeat, I am not sure why that is relevant to them looking pretty happy at being in the final 4

Totally agree re the nations, its a vocal minority of modern footballer cry babies who seem to have issue with it. 

Club managers hate international football at least until they get too old/shite for club management and end up being an international manager. I remember having a laugh to myself when Souness was trying to get the Scotland job given the contempt he has shown for international football over the years. 

I’m sure England supporters would love to win the National League. Not as much as they would love to win the World Cup or the Euros though. This is my point.

I think it’s relevant because Italy are obviously happy they they are going to the semi finals but they would give that up in a heartbeat to go to the World Cup. I’m sure they would happily go into League D if it meant they could go to Qatar. 

Rangers and Celtic players and supporters celebrate wildly when they win the league cup. Do they really give a fuck about it compared to winning the league?

England are obviously concerned about their form going into the World Cup but they won’t lose any sleep about being in League B for (probably) one version of the Nations League. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Texas Pete said:

Van Dijk and Jurgen Klopp (although he would) have moaned about it fairly recently. 

I think the vast majority of people prefer it to friendlies but a lot of people from countries that qualify for major tournaments all the time don’t seem to value it as much as us. 

England supporters are unhappy that their team have went several games without a win and almost 500 minutes without a goal from open play. They would be raging about that and would want Southgate sacked if they had done this in five friendlies in a row prior to the World Cup. They will very likely get promoted back to league A next time as well.

Italy would happily swap places with England and be going to the World Cup and League B.

Personally I think the Nations League is the best thing to happen to international football since the Euros went to 16 teams. We probably wouldn’t have qualified for Euro 2020 if it hadn’t existed and if we could get promoted to League A and get into pot 2 for the next euros draw I will be ecstatic. Our current world ranking would not get us into pot 2 so the NL is massive for us. It’s not massive for teams like Germany, France, Belgium and even England. 

Van Dijk probably dislikes it because playing those extra games limits his opportunities to cheat on his wife.

Seriously, a couple of players mumping about the Nations League is hardly indicative of entire teams not giving a shit or not taking it seriously. I certainly don't get the impression that's the consensus down south, that's for sure.  

De Bruyne and Van Dijk must have short memories. It isn't that long ago Belgium used to finish outside the top two in qualifying groups and more recently still that the Netherlands were failing to qualify for tournaments. I bet they'd have cared about the Nations League if it'd been around then.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...


×
×
  • Create New...