September 2022 - Squad discussion thread

[mccaughey85]

6 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Like I said it has paid dividends for Wales. There have been a lot of young Wales players integrated into their full squad without league experience of note but have done a job for Wales and impressed and it has seen their league careers take off and so a win-win for all concerned. Are you suggesting it is better to persist with players who are NEVER going to make it for us or make a mark such as McLean, Porteus, Brown and even Jack. They are mere squad fillers with no future.

Porteous is only 23, thats pretty young for a centre back. He could easily become a regular for us in few years time. Brown is only 23/24 and doing well in the english championship. Hes another who could do well for us in the future. 

Fair enough mclean and jack probably should be moved on in favour of younger guys.

[Caledonian Craig]

Just now, mccaughey85 said:

Porteous is only 23, thats pretty young for a centre back. He could easily become a regular for us in few years time. Brown is only 23/24 and doing well in the english championship. Hes another who could do well for us in the future. 

Fair enough mclean and jack probably should be moved on in favour of younger guys.

I will say with some certainty Porteous and Brown will not make it at international level.

[mccaughey85]

6 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Doak potential-wise is way above Morgan and Burke as is Craig and is showing that for Spurs at youth Champions League level where I'd bet he is playing against other greatly talented youngsters and impressing.

What??? Doak plays u18s football. He could be at arbroath or northampton town in 4/5years. Loads of youth players look great at 16 and then end up barely making it at professional level. Just look at karamoko dembele or islam feruz or the countless other scottish wonderkids that never made it at a decent level. Same applies with craig.

We cant just shove epl youth players into our main squad. That would be madness. 

Guys like burke and morgan are actually performing at decent level of football. Have you seen epl u18s highlights, the standard is so far off the likes of epl or even english championship. I doubt its even near english league 1 level in terms of standard. 

I like doak but hes a long way from getting in scotland squads. Same with craig.

[wanderer]

19 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

And, for us as Scotland fans, that form is all that matters is it not?

We have had many players win many caps based on club form but have been dog crap for Scotland. We can do without that. I am only interested in their returns and performances for us.

And that is why unfortunately we find ourselves getting shot in the foot a lot of time, as we cling on to past glories.... David Marshall was in no state to go into the Euros as our No1 keeper, but Clarke felt he had to out of loyalty for getting us to the Euros.

That is the main criticism most people have with this squad is the amount of out of form players.

[GHfaeGTA]

19 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Doak potential-wise is way above Morgan and Burke as is Craig and is showing that for Spurs at youth Champions League level where I'd bet he is playing against other greatly talented youngsters and impressing.

Youth team! On that basis we should have picked Mikey Johnstone a few years ago when he was ripping it up in the CL youth leagues. Look what happened to him. If he was good enough, Craig would be out on loan to a lower league team to get first team football to see if he can hack it. Until get gets some first team football he should be nowhere near the squad.
 

Kerr Smith is captaining Villa’s  under 21s and has played first team football at Tannadice. Should we be capping him too? Anderson is a better shout 

Edited September 13, 2022 by GHfaeGTA

[Caledonian Craig]

2 minutes ago, wanderer said:

And that is why unfortunately we find ourselves getting shot in the foot a lot of time, as we cling on to past glories.... David Marshall was in no state to go into the Euros as our No1 keeper, but Clarke felt he had to out of loyalty for getting us to the Euros.

That is the main criticism most people have with this squad is the amount of out of form players.

Sorry but I have to disagree. There are many of our top players in crap form. If we dropped them and end up with poor set of results Clarke would be crucified. Players such as McGinn, Gilmour, Dykes and more would get chopped to be replaced with who?

[wanderer]

2 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

What??? Doak plays u18s football. He could be at arbroath or northampton town in 4/5years. Loads of youth players look great at 16 and then end up barely making it at professional level. Just look at karamoko dembele or islam feruz or the countless other scottish wonderkids that never made it at a decent level. Same applies with craig.

Robbie Foy prime example... big things expected of him because he was in the Liverpool youth team, and within 2 years of getting a U21 cap have just about given up playing football and working in a car dealership in Chester.

Doak and Craig we can hope that they can emulate Gilmour, but at moment its far to early.... out of all those kind of players, Elliott Anderson is probably the most likely to be capped first, but I have my doubts he will commit to us for at least another year (he only has one more switch on national team and then he is committed to one for the rest of his career, but do think he will ultimately select us)

[mccaughey85]

7 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

I will say with some certainty Porteous and Brown will not make it at international level.

And how do you know craig or doak will? We have had only a couple of guys come through epl youth setups in the last 15 years. 

Loads of our centre backs didnt become regulars until 26/27. Just look at hendry and cooper. Pretty sure colin hendry didnt become a regular until he was late 20s, same with david weir.

Our standards are pretty low when it comes to centre backs so all porteous needs is to improve slightly in the next few years and he will be in squads. 

Jacob brown is doing well at english chsmpionship level and that is way above u18s epl football in terms of standard. You do realise most of our strikers are english championship level. 

Guys like craig and doak are so far from international football its ridiculous to suggest they get called up. Have ypu actually seen u18s or u23s epl football. Its shockingly poor in comparison to even the spl or english championship. I am all for being optimistic about youth players but a realism is needed regarding the level the currently play at. 

Guys like brown and even porteous have already made it at a level way above guys like craig and doak.

[wanderer]

1 minute ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Sorry but I have to disagree. There are many of our top players in crap form. If we dropped them and end up with poor set of results Clarke would be crucified. Players such as McGinn, Gilmour, Dykes and more would get chopped to be replaced with who?

They will not be chopped from the squad all together, but we just can not keep hoping for the best (McGinn being given Villa captaincy has probably put to much weight on his shoulders, and I suspect his head has been turned over a move that did not happen in the summer.... Gilmour has not got his coat off at Brighton yet, and another week or so at Chelsea might have made a massive difference... Dykes is just out of form and has been for some time)

[Caledonian Craig]

1 minute ago, wanderer said:

Robbie Foy prime example... big things expected of him because he was in the Liverpool youth team, and within 2 years of getting a U21 cap have just about given up playing football and working in a car dealership in Chester.

Doak and Craig we can hope that they can emulate Gilmour, but at moment its far to early.... out of all those kind of players, Elliott Anderson is probably the most likely to be capped first, but I have my doubts he will commit to us for at least another year (he only has one more switch on national team and then he is committed to one for the rest of his career, but do think he will ultimately select us)

Fine we stumble along with deadwood players like McLean, Porteous, Jack and Brown. Players who do not have the potential to be anymore than squad filling journeymen. As I have said Wales do the correct thing by getting their best youngsters with potential into the full squad and have been reaping the rewards for it. We stumble along with journeymen with no international futures in prospect. Wonderful eh? 🙄

[Caledonian Craig]

5 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

And how do you know craig or doak will? We have had only a couple of guys come through epl youth setups in the last 15 years. 

 

We don't until we have a look. Guaranteed Brown and Porteous will not crack it. They are mere squad fillers ad nauseum. What exactly is their point in the squad?

Anyways that is my opinion which some on here agree with. And some clearly don't and would rather we carry dead wood in our squad.

[mccaughey85]

2 minutes ago, wanderer said:

Robbie Foy prime example... big things expected of him because he was in the Liverpool youth team, and within 2 years of getting a U21 cap have just about given up playing football and working in a car dealership in Chester.

Doak and Craig we can hope that they can emulate Gilmour, but at moment its far to early.... out of all those kind of players, Elliott Anderson is probably the most likely to be capped first, but I have my doubts he will commit to us for at least another year (he only has one more switch on national team and then he is committed to one for the rest of his career, but do think he will ultimately select us)

Yeh totally agree. Doak and craig could be playing part time football in few years. Look at gary mackay steven. His career was pretty much over and he was working in a hotel in thurso before he somehow managed to revive it with dundee united and fair play to the lad hes done pretty well since but he was a star youth player at liverpool with a big future.

I find it weird ppl get ultra excited by epl youth players. Until they start playing a reasonable level of football they are very unlikely to get to anywhere near the top level football.

I actually get more excited by guys like jacob brown, turnbull, porteous or ferguson because they have already made it at a decent level and all it would take is for them to go on a run of good form for 6/12 months and they could easily jump up a level to the epl or a top european league.

 

[wanderer]

2 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Fine we stumble along with deadwood players like McLean, Porteous, Jack and Brown. Players who do not have the potential to be anymore than squad filling journeymen. As I have said Wales do the correct thing by getting their best youngsters with potential into the full squad and have been reaping the rewards for it. We stumble along with journeymen with no international futures in prospect. Wonderful eh? 🙄

That is actually something of a myth with Wales, at the Euros their squad average age was something like two years older than what our's was.

Yes, they are probably faster to cap players than what we are, but the only players they have taken a proper gamble on in recent years was probably Ethan Ampadu...

Take Bale out of the equation, their players caps for their age is probably no different than what our's is.... Billy Gilmour has 15 caps and is only 21, thats pretty much on par with Dylan Levitt, who is same age, but only has 12 caps (and made his Wales debut a full year before Gilmour made his Scotland debut).

[GHfaeGTA]

9 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Fine we stumble along with deadwood players like McLean, Porteous, Jack and Brown. Players who do not have the potential to be anymore than squad filling journeymen. As I have said Wales do the correct thing by getting their best youngsters with potential into the full squad and have been reaping the rewards for it. We stumble along with journeymen with no international futures in prospect. Wonderful eh? 🙄

Like Ben Woodburn?

[mccaughey85]

3 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

We don't until we have a look. Guaranteed Brown and Porteous will not crack it. They are mere squad fillers ad nauseum. What exactly is their point in the squad?

Anyways that is my opinion which some on here agree with. And some clearly don't and would rather we carry dead wood in our squad.

So your saying we just fill our squads with guys from epl youth setups. Thats utter daftness. Fair enough guys like anderson maybe deserve a shot but shoving u18s epl players in our squad is not a good idea. Some of these lads wont even make it above league2 or scottish championship level. You ever heard of ruben sammut or robbie foy. 

[csinclair]

The idea of writing off Jacob Brown when he's only 24 and currently playing at a good standard of football is ridiculous.

Would like to see him given a chance alongside Adams but Clarke only ever seems to want to bring one on for the other.

[mccaughey85]

11 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Fine we stumble along with deadwood players like McLean, Porteous, Jack and Brown. Players who do not have the potential to be anymore than squad filling journeymen. As I have said Wales do the correct thing by getting their best youngsters with potential into the full squad and have been reaping the rewards for it. We stumble along with journeymen with no international futures in prospect. Wonderful eh? 🙄

Porteous and brown are not dead wood. They are relatively young guys who could end up being first team regulars in few years time.

You do realise brown is only 24 and has been scoring regulary in the english championship. If he goes on a good run this season he could end up in the epl next year. Thats our level when it comes to strikers, guys who play english championship. 

It might not be a great level but its lightyears above u18s epl football. 

You do realise david weir and colin hendry didnt become regulars with us til their late 20s. Porteous is only 23 and personally i doubt he ever becomes a regular with us but hes still way more deserving of a place in the squad over an epl youth player who hasnt played pro football at any kind of decent level. 

[Caledonian Craig]

Just now, wanderer said:

That is actually something of a myth with Wales, at the Euros their squad average age was something like two years older than what our's was.

Yes, they are probably faster to cap players than what we are, but the only players they have taken a proper gamble on in recent years was probably Ethan Ampadu...

Take Bale out of the equation, their players caps for their age is probably no different than what our's is.... Billy Gilmour has 15 caps and is only 21, thats pretty much on par with Dylan Levitt, who is same age, but only has 12 caps (and made his Wales debut a full year before Gilmour made his Scotland debut).

There are players like Neco Williams who was a squad member for Wales and had only played a handful of league games who is now integrated into the squad. There is Ethan Ampadu, Dylan Levitt, Ruben Colwill, Rabbi Matondo, Rhys Norrington-Davies, Brennan Johnson, Daniel James and Harry Wilson and they all got a place in the squad before cracking it at their clubs to any great degree and are now mainstays in the squad.

[wanderer]

4 minutes ago, csinclair said:

The idea of writing off Jacob Brown when he's only 24 and currently playing at a good standard of football is ridiculous.

Would like to see him given a chance alongside Adams but Clarke only ever seems to want to bring one on for the other.

Agree, Brown has not been given a fair crack of the whip yet, as most his caps to date have seen him coming on to run the clock down in the final stages of games.... he has hardly had a chance to show what he can do yet.

[mccaughey85]

2 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

There are players like Neco Williams who was a squad member for Wales and had only played a handful of league games who is now integrated into the squad. There is Ethan Ampadu, Dylan Levitt, Ruben Colwill, Rabbi Matondo, Rhys Norrington-Davies, Brennan Johnson, Daniel James and Harry Wilson and they all got a place in the squad before cracking it at their clubs to any great degree and are now mainstays in the squad.

Pretty sure most if those guys were on the fringes of their clubs first team much like anderson is with newcastle. Wales dont just cap random epl youth players.

[Caledonian Craig]

7 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

So your saying we just fill our squads with guys from epl youth setups. Thats utter daftness. Fair enough guys like anderson maybe deserve a shot but shoving u18s epl players in our squad is not a good idea. Some of these lads wont even make it above league2 or scottish championship level. You ever heard of ruben sammut or robbie foy. 

Quit putting words in my mouth. I never said fill the squad I said remove dead wood squad fillers and get in our best young players who have real potential. Brown has been in and around our squad and quite clearly has not impressed Clarke enough to give him anymore than a few minutes run out at the end of games. That is how things will pan out for him. And not a good idea? Works very well for Wales who happen to qualify and do well in international tournaments.

[Caledonian Craig]

1 minute ago, wanderer said:

Agree, Brown has not been given a fair crack of the whip yet, as most his caps to date have seen him coming on to run the clock down in the final stages of games.... he has hardly had a chance to show what he can do yet.

Why hasn't he been given 'a fair crack of the whip'? Clarke has had him in enough squads. If he has impressed he'd have got a start or two by now but obviously has not.

[mccaughey85]

2 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Quit putting words in my mouth. I never said fill the squad I said remove dead wood squad fillers and get in our best young players who have real potential. Brown has been in and around our squad and quite clearly has not impressed Clarke enough to give him anymore than a few minutes run out at the end of games. That is how things will pan out for him. And not a good idea? Works very well for Wales who happen to qualify and do well in international tournaments.

So what epl youth players would you have in this squad? You honestly suggesting doak or craig?

[mccaughey85]

2 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Why hasn't he been given 'a fair crack of the whip'? Clarke has had him in enough squads. If he has impressed he'd have got a start or two by now but obviously has not.

Thats not really much of a 'fair crack'. It all depends on how well he does for his club as well. Nobodies suggesting he will be a superstar but the idea of replacing him with an epl youth player is daft. Why not call up some scottish championship players or even scottish league1. 

Until a player shows good form at a decent level of football then he shouldnt get called up. U18s epl football is terrible. Even from the clips from youtube you can see its a long way off spl or english chsmpionship.

[Caledonian Craig]

2 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

So what epl youth players would you have in this squad? You honestly suggesting doak or craig?

Yes I'd have Doak in for Brown. Craig in for Porteous. When fit Lowry in for McLean. Anderson in for Jack.

We will have to agree to disagree on this but one thing I am sure about is that Brown, Porteous, McLean and Jack will never star for us and are destined to be squad fillers.